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UNITED ACADEMY

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I never expect him to be our starting XI signing so I never understand why people actually think we should force him into our XI. Donny isn't some sort of world class player where we must put him into our XI. In my opinion he was signed as Bruno's backup, offer the impact sub & flexibility in changing formation or plan if required in certain games & emergency player that can cover other positions for example the double pivot. He's also like Lingard replacement but play in midfield. Lingard is one of our player who is very good in finding space and making intelligent run & Donny is also very good at that. When Pogba leaves next year, Donny will get more minutes but doesn't mean it will change to he will play regularly in Starting XI.
 

Matt851

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Way too early to pass judgment. The lad hasn't even had a run of two games yet.

Ziyech, who people have started to rave about now, has started to have a run of games for Chelsea, hence why we're starting to see his quality.

As for VdB not having freedom, watch Bruno Fernandes. Our number 10 has all the freedom in the world.

As I said, once he gets a run of games in the side, we should hopefully start to see the quality he showed at Ajax.
Hard to shirk the feeling that his signing wasn't properly thought through. Good player no doubt, but did they have a clear idea how they planned to use him? Hard to see how he gets a run in the team as well barring injuries, based on how we're setting up. Anyway, I hope it all changes and he turns out great. All that goodwill he came with mustn't go to waste.
That would be fairly typical of the feckwits running this club, in the mean time we still have big gaps in other positions. I really dont see this improvement in signings or process that the ole fanboys are grasping on to
 

Adam-Utd

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He's been bought as a squad player and will play plenty of minutes, it's up to him to force his way into the side and make himself undroppable.

I personally like him a lot and think he's a type of player very different to what we have currently.

With Pogba potentially leaving it was wise for the club to get a good replacement for him early.
 

romufc

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He's been bought as a squad player and will play plenty of minutes, it's up to him to force his way into the side and make himself undroppable.

I personally like him a lot and think he's a type of player very different to what we have currently.

With Pogba potentially leaving it was wise for the club to get a good replacement for him early.
Exactly, this fan base is weird.

When Bruno came in, it was like how can a new player walk into manutd like this and become the main player.

When Donny needs to fight for his place, the manager hates him for wanting him to fight for his place.

Donny is a 10, I do not know where people are getting this that he plays in a 6 or a box to box from.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Hard to believe he joined expecting to be a squad player if the stories of offers from Madrid etc are true. Fair play to him if that is the case.
 

VP89

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He's been bought as a squad player and will play plenty of minutes, it's up to him to force his way into the side and make himself undroppable.

I personally like him a lot and think he's a type of player very different to what we have currently.

With Pogba potentially leaving it was wise for the club to get a good replacement for him early.
It's not though is it. It's up to Ole to have the sense to pick a player when he performs well. He hasn't really illustrated this, and maybe there are reasons that are logical which we don't know if - but from the outside it does look bizarre. He the only player that looked capable in Turkey and then got dropped again for the Everton game. He played extremely well against Leipzig and got dropped for Arsenal. Ole thinks he's being smart but its certainly not coming across re. VDB.
 

Matt851

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Exactly, this fan base is weird.

When Bruno came in, it was like how can a new player walk into manutd like this and become the main player.

When Donny needs to fight for his place, the manager hates him for wanting him to fight for his place.

Donny is a 10, I do not know where people are getting this that he plays in a 6 or a box to box from.
We have seen several games recently where the team has been crying out for more quality from central midfield (not brunos position) and we know pogba isnt upto it by now.

If dvb cant provide this the club shouldnt have spent so much of its summer budget on him.

If we had bought several other first team ready players this summer (e.g. a cb or dm) then there wouldnt be so much focus on donny not starting
 

tenpoless

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It's not though is it. It's up to Ole to have the sense to pick a player when he performs well. He hasn't really illustrated this, and maybe there are reasons that are logical which we don't know if - but from the outside it does look bizarre. He the only player that looked capable in Turkey and then got dropped again for the Everton game. He played extremely well against Leipzig and got dropped for Arsenal. Ole thinks he's being smart but its certainly not coming across re. VDB.
Indeed, it certainly looks weird from the outside because we don't have a fix midfield yet. It's not like we have a very good and very well functioning midfield.
 

Strelok

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It's not though is it. It's up to Ole to have the sense to pick a player when he performs well. He hasn't really illustrated this, and maybe there are reasons that are logical which we don't know if - but from the outside it does look bizarre. He the only player that looked capable in Turkey and then got dropped again for the Everton game. He played extremely well against Leipzig and got dropped for Arsenal. Ole thinks he's being smart but its certainly not coming across re. VDB.
Did he?
 

romufc

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We have seen several games recently where the team has been crying out for more quality from central midfield (not brunos position) and we know pogba isnt upto it by now.

If dvb cant provide this the club shouldnt have spent so much of its summer budget on him.

If we had bought several other first team ready players this summer (e.g. a cb or dm) then there wouldnt be so much focus on donny not starting
Okay, so in which area is the team crying for quality? Actually, what attributes are we crying out for?

It's called squad depth and I can tell you why we spent that money.

Let me give you examples - Newcastle away, Leipzig home where we can change players and bring quality in, just because he hasnt played 90 mins in the first 10 games dont mean he wont play a big part in the season.

Secondly, you do not put a player in out of position in a team that is struggling... its poor management,.
 

Giggsy13

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It might come as a huge surprise to some but it’s possible that VDB’s game is versatile enough to play as a no. 10 and as a box to box midfielder. I know it’s shocking but some players can play more than one position, as VDB has shown with Ajax.
 

luke511

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Fred, VDB and Bruno should be given a try.
Fred and VDB as the midfield 2 with Bruno in front of them has to be our strongest midfield combination, playing with either 4 or 5 at the back. I'm surprised we haven't seen it in action yet.
 

acnumber9

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It might come as a huge surprise to some but it’s possible that VDB’s game is versatile enough to play as a no. 10 and as a box to box midfielder. I know it’s shocking but some players can play more than one position, as VDB has shown with Ajax.
Somebody needs to tell the manager that then.
 

FrankDrebin

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Beek has yet to perform extremely well for us at the present. He's had moments of class but as a whole he's been in and out of games. He's yet to stamp his authority in appearances but people still forget he's very much a young developing player.

It's going to take him abit of time here to get fully adjusted to us and the standard required in the PL.

There's been very few player's who've been brought from the Eredivisie who've been instant successes and those who have -have generally more experienced players.
 

luke511

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Exactly, this fan base is weird.

When Bruno came in, it was like how can a new player walk into manutd like this and become the main player.

When Donny needs to fight for his place, the manager hates him for wanting him to fight for his place.

Donny is a 10, I do not know where people are getting this that he plays in a 6 or a box to box from.
He hardly ever played as a 10 for Ajax. That's not to say he isn't good in that position, but he always played in a midfield 2 behind a no.10.
 

Borys

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It's not though is it. It's up to Ole to have the sense to pick a player when he performs well. He hasn't really illustrated this, and maybe there are reasons that are logical which we don't know if - but from the outside it does look bizarre. He the only player that looked capable in Turkey and then got dropped again for the Everton game. He played extremely well against Leipzig and got dropped for Arsenal. Ole thinks he's being smart but its certainly not coming across re. VDB.
Do you think we would change entire formation for Donny? Because that needs to be done to accommodate him. He isn't going to play in midfield two.

Indeed, it certainly looks weird from the outside because we don't have a fix midfield yet. It's not like we have a very good and very well functioning midfield.
We have fixed midfield, and it's functioning pretty well.

It might come as a huge surprise to some but it’s possible that VDB’s game is versatile enough to play as a no. 10 and as a box to box midfielder. I know it’s shocking but some players can play more than one position, as VDB has shown with Ajax.
Exactly. We tried that with Pogba, and failed badly. So it's even more likely we can succeed with Donny.
 

VP89

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Do you think we would change entire formation for Donny? Because that needs to be done to accommodate him. He isn't going to play in midfield two.
My opinion is that he operates fine with Bruno and say, Matic/Fred. It you are pointing to a 4213 then you can have Fred just as a ball winning midfielder, VDB as a box to box and Bruno as the 10 - for example. If you have a flat 433 you can find room for him of course (and that would actually suit Pogba too, perhaps not Bruno though).

He can play a diamond too, although I doubt this suits the team as a whole. And he'd be good in a 352 as well. I think there are lots of systems where he can fit because he's actually extremely versatile.

I disagree that all he does is make runs, he does a lot more than this but clever positional play is just a big plus which tends to shadow the rest of his attributes.
 

Borys

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My opinion is that he operates fine with Bruno and say, Matic/Fred. It you are pointing to a 4213 then you can have Fred just as a ball winning midfielder, VDB as a box to box and Bruno as the 10 - for example. If you have a flat 433 you can find room for him of course (and that would actually suit Pogba too, perhaps not Bruno though).

He can play a diamond too, although I doubt this suits the team as a whole. And he'd be good in a 352 as well. I think there are lots of systems where he can fit because he's actually extremely versatile.

I disagree that all he does is make runs, he does a lot more than this but clever positional play is just a big plus which tends to shadow the rest of his attributes.
I agree with most of your points, but the question stands: would you change current setup just to accomodate Donny?

Because we can do a lot of things, but again, lets not repeat Pogba scenario.
 

VP89

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I agree with most of your points, but the question stands: would you change current setup just to accomodate Donny?

Because we can do a lot of things, but again, lets not repeat Pogba scenario.
But nothing needs to be changed - if we have to keep whatever set up, I'd just not bother with both McTominay+Fred and play VDB over say McTominay. Or I wouldn't bother with Mata and play VDB.
 

brzez

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My opinion is that he operates fine with Bruno and say, Matic/Fred. It you are pointing to a 4213 then you can have Fred just as a ball winning midfielder, VDB as a box to box and Bruno as the 10 - for example. If you have a flat 433 you can find room for him of course (and that would actually suit Pogba too, perhaps not Bruno though).

He can play a diamond too, although I doubt this suits the team as a whole. And he'd be good in a 352 as well. I think there are lots of systems where he can fit because he's actually extremely versatile.

I disagree that all he does is make runs, he does a lot more than this but clever positional play is just a big plus which tends to shadow the rest of his attributes.
Yeah I’m sure that suits us. We can have Greenwood and Rashford as wingers and Martial as the CF.

:lol::lol::lol:
 

Borys

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But nothing needs to be changed - if we have to keep whatever set up, I'd just not bother with both McTominay+Fred and play VDB over say McTominay. Or I wouldn't bother with Mata and play VDB.
That's where we differ - you think playing van de Beek in McTominay place is nothing big. I believe it's quite the opposite.

I suggested going 3 at the back (Maguire, McTominay, Shaw), wing backs (AWB, Telles), midfield duo od Fred and van de Beek being Bruno, and two strikers up front.
 
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The people on twitter calling for him to play in McT or Fred’s position clearly never watch him play. Mark Goldbridge insisting he’s not an attacking midfielder clearly never watches him play.

If he’s going to play he needs to be the most advanced midfielder. It’s that simple.
 

VP89

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That's where we differ - you think playing van de Beek in McTominay place is nothing big. I believe it's quite the opposite.

I suggested going 3 at the back (Maguire, McTominay, Shaw), wing backs (AWB, Telles), midfield duo od Fred and van de Beek being Bruno, and two strikers up front.
I actually think we would operate better with 3 at the back, but your question was would I change the formation all together just to accommodate VDB, and my answer is just, we don't need to change the entire formation for him. He can play in either formation - but whether 3 at the back is generally better suited to the team is an independent discussion to Donny in my opinion.

The people on twitter calling for him to play in McT or Fred’s position clearly never watch him play. Mark Goldbridge insisting he’s not an attacking midfielder clearly never watches him play.

If he’s going to play he needs to be the most advanced midfielder. It’s that simple.
I disagree, seemingly some followers of Ajax here do too. Sure he may be strongly suited to a 10 but that's not his only position. I agree he should not be just a ball winning midfielder though.
 

groovyalbert

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Given Pogba's form, it's hard to argue against his inclusion in the starting XI if you're not persisting with McT and Fred as deep lying midfielders.
 

romufc

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He hardly ever played as a 10 for Ajax. That's not to say he isn't good in that position, but he always played in a midfield 2 behind a no.10.
This just goes to show how much you watch him play. The biggest games for Ajax, see below team selections and you can also check the different legs. He played infront of a 2 in midfield.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2026847--ajax-vs-real-madrid/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027155--juventus-vs-ajax/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027159--ajax-vs-tottenham/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027063--ajax-vs-chelsea/

Can you highlight to me who is the 10 Donny played behind?
 

AjaxNL

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Donny certainly played most of his matches at 10 for Ajax. The only times he played a little deeper, were when there were personnel problems of some sort.
 

luke511

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This just goes to show how much you watch him play. The biggest games for Ajax, see below team selections and you can also check the different legs. He played infront of a 2 in midfield.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2026847--ajax-vs-real-madrid/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027155--juventus-vs-ajax/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027159--ajax-vs-tottenham/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027063--ajax-vs-chelsea/

Can you highlight to me who is the 10 Donny played behind?
Starting as a no.10:



Starting as a CM:

 

romufc

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Starting as a no.10:



Starting as a CM:

Get me the line up for them games and then show me, just because a website listed them as CM means he played as CM :lol: :lol:

No wonder you have no idea where he plays, base your knowledge on websites like these instead of watching the games.
 

Cheimoon

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This just goes to show how much you watch him play. The biggest games for Ajax, see below team selections and you can also check the different legs. He played infront of a 2 in midfield.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2026847--ajax-vs-real-madrid/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027155--juventus-vs-ajax/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027159--ajax-vs-tottenham/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2027063--ajax-vs-chelsea/

Can you highlight to me who is the 10 Donny played behind?
But that was all in the season when De Jong was still there, wasn't it? I remember some posters arguing on here back then that Van de Beek would be better if he were playing further back, but has to play higher up because De Jong is just so awesome in that more defensive role.
Donny certainly played most of his matches at 10 for Ajax. The only times he played a little deeper, were when there were personnel problems of some sort.
What was his usual position last season? Still further up, even without De Jong?
 

Zoo

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I think he can play in a deeper role with a bit of time and experience. He did quite well there the other day in Turkey and it certainly shouldn’t be ruled out. Apparently the club have put him on a gym programme to strengthen him up and am sure there is a plan in place for him.
 

luke511

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Get me the line up for them games and then show me, just because a website listed them as CM means he played as CM :lol: :lol:

No wonder you have no idea where he plays, base your knowledge on websites like these instead of watching the games.
You're the one that started using website formations to get your point across not me, here's a few -

https://uk.soccerway.com/matches/20...ivisie/sportclub-heerenveen/afc-ajax/3032280/
https://uk.soccerway.com/matches/2020/02/16/netherlands/eredivisie/afc-ajax/rkc-waalwijk/3032258/
https://uk.soccerway.com/matches/20...divisie/afc-ajax/sparta-rotterdam-bv/3032221/
https://uk.soccerway.com/matches/20...eredivisie/afc-ajax/hfc-ado-den-haag/3032211/
 

romufc

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If you actually go read what I said, you replied saying he hardly plays at 10, whereas the most important games for Ajax, he played 10...

If you again read at my previous posts, I have said we can get away with playing him in a 8 in some games at home. Ajax used to dominate games and possession so they can afford to play more attacking players.

It is obvious our team is not in a position to play such an expansive style.

The one time Donny played CM for us, we lost the game, its not a coincidence that. He was always outside the box. Go read what Ole said about Donny when he was signed, he expects him to get into the box and arrive into the box.

When was the last time you saw our 2 in midfield arrive in the box? they don't because that is not the style we play, we play with a 4 upfront who are the main creators and scorers.
 

romufc

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But that was all in the season when De Jong was still there, wasn't it? I remember some posters arguing on here back then that Van de Beek would be better if he were playing further back, but has to play higher up because De Jong is just so awesome in that more defensive role.

What was his usual position last season? Still further up, even without De Jong?
De Jong was just one player though?

Ofcourse he can play deeper but he cannot play there every game, it has to be certain games where we come against teams that sit and have less counter attacking threat. Donny is a very clever footballer, but having him in a CM alongisde a Matic or Fred will not work against teams that load the midfield in this team.

Mainly under Ole, because we do not have the coaching and tactics to make it work, we have seen what happens when Ole doesnt play 2 combative midfielders, we get opened up way too easily.

Therefore; to expect Ole to play him there is a stretch unless we start playing really well, or he can find the right tactics.
 

Strelok

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I didn't see you posting about him playing extremely well that match?

Agreed.

My opinion maybe not popular but if last match we played Mata in his position doing his 'supposed job' of retaining possession for the sake of keeping it then it'd be the same I think. Mata is also a very tidy player, smart and good with back passing. Our problem when we played Mata was he was doing so much of those back passes and can not keep the ball and move it forward. Mata got heavily criticized for that and now VDB got praised 'brilliant' for that. I don't get it.

VDB seems like a good player but imo the current hype would do him no good. Let the lad beds in and we'll see I think.
He did fine and I expect more from him. But
common guys, overhyping a player is never good for him. Too much of unrealistic expectation and you will see people jumping on him just because he can't deliver that unrealistic expectation. VDB is a good player but imo he's still adapting to the PL. He'll get plenty playing time this season. Be patient now and be patient in the future if he can't hit the ground running.
 

luke511

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If you actually go read what I said, you replied saying he hardly plays at 10, whereas the most important games for Ajax, he played 10...

If you again read at my previous posts, I have said we can get away with playing him in a 8 in some games at home. Ajax used to dominate games and possession so they can afford to play more attacking players.

It is obvious our team is not in a position to play such an expansive style.

The one time Donny played CM for us, we lost the game, its not a coincidence that. He was always outside the box. Go read what Ole said about Donny when he was signed, he expects him to get into the box and arrive into the box.

When was the last time you saw our 2 in midfield arrive in the box? they don't because that is not the style we play, we play with a 4 upfront who are the main creators and scorers.
You also said "I do not know where people are getting this that he plays in a 6 or a box to box from." .. My response was mainly to get the point across that he's perfectly capable of playing as a box to box midfielder as he played in that position for Ajax a lot.

The one time being vs Basaksehir? The game where the defence majorly fecked up for the first goal, and Bruno and Mata fecked up for the second? You surely can't be saying VDB is partly to blame for that loss? I even recall a lot of people questioning his sub that game in the match thread as he was one of the only players up to par.
 

romufc

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You also said "I do not know where people are getting this that he plays in a 6 or a box to box from." .. My response was mainly to get the point across that he's perfectly capable of playing a box to box midfielder or in a double pivot as he played in that position for Ajax a lot.

The one time being vs Basaksehir? The game where the defence majorly fecked up for the first goal, and Bruno and Mata fecked up for the second? You surely can't be saying VDB is partly to blame for that loss? I even recall a lot of people questioning his sub that game in the match thread as he was one of the only players up to par.
Yep, he can play 8. Not 6.

Yes, because all the fans were so engrossed in how he kept the ball, do you even know what position he played against Istanbul?