Irish people left for America in their thousands in the 70's and 80's too. There will be many Americans available for Ireland for plenty of years to come. Problem is they're probably just not good enough. Soccer isn't played widely enough. If Brazil had been a hotspot for jobs in the 80's, you can bet we'd have plenty of Brazilian born players playing for the Irish.
Eligibility of footballers playing in different countries to birth
- Thread starter NotoriousISSY
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Theyll probably think of themselves as Americans and grow up wanting to play rounders. Sorry, I mean baseball.
On principle I have no issue with it, although I find the Januzaj discussion hilarious given that there's absolutely no way he's even considered it, and that the whole discussion is so premature anyway.
or conceived
good discussion, mostly. Wilshere needs to get with the times. There must be lots of players that want to play for England and that qualify, even if they're not English under his definition.
How would you prove that? I guess in the age of smartphones there is really no excuse for people not videoing the conception of their children to ensure they can qualify for the Irish football team. Which as has been discussed above is such a difficult team to qualify for.or conceived
good discussion, mostly. Wilshere needs to get with the times. There must be lots of players that want to play for England and that qualify, even if they're not English under his definition.
Cyrille Regis was born in French Guinea. If you have to be born here or have an English parent, how did he get to play for England back then? I love the way Scots in media are saying you should be English to play for England, when Jordan Rhodes is playing for Scotland.
Yeah but he grew up in Scotland/went to school there, and has always said he feels more Scottish than English... and his dad is Scottish, so basically, he is Scottish.
This is an insane topic. Football needs to modernise.
If someone can snap a pic of someone else taking a shit down a chimney then location of conception should be easy
I used to think that if you only read a B&I brochure you could be eligible to play for Ireland.
His dad isn't Scottish but that shouldn't really matter.
If you spend your school years in a different country to your birth then I'd say that has a pretty big effect on your national identity. People place too much importance on place of birth.
So he isn't, I knew he played football in Scotland, so I assumed he was!
yeah the England thing is about as valid as the fact that he could sign for Barca at the end of the season, live their for 5 years, and play for Spain. Or Catalonia, if they can get their team recognised!
And going back to the British vs. English debate, even if his dad weren't Scottish a Northerner who grew up in Scotland, regularly went to SPL games since his dad played for a Scottish team... he is bound to feel more aligned with the average Scottish player than the likes of Jack Wilshere and Cashley.
Januzaj's England eligibility is absurd indeed, which is why a new thread was started to discuss the topic of eligibility rather than continue the discussion in his thread.
Januzaj playing for England is obviously ridiculous, I'm not sure why either party would even consider it.
Generally though I'd be reluctant to pre-judge a player on who they "should" play for. For example, someone with no blood connection to a country who arrives as a political refugee would be a very different case to someone like Januzaj who only came to England to play football.
You don't want to be too precious over who can play for your country either, that's how you get ridiculous situations like Ozil being criticised for choosing Germany over Turkey.
Generally though I'd be reluctant to pre-judge a player on who they "should" play for. For example, someone with no blood connection to a country who arrives as a political refugee would be a very different case to someone like Januzaj who only came to England to play football.
You don't want to be too precious over who can play for your country either, that's how you get ridiculous situations like Ozil being criticised for choosing Germany over Turkey.
Usually I'd expect someone who 'feels English' to represent England. Such as Zaha, even though he wasnt born in the country he clearly feels English and thats why he wants to play for England.
However, if a potential special talent like Adnan wanted to represent England for whatever reason (in this case, it would presumably be because he couldnt play for Kosovo) then of course I'd be fine, happy to have him in the team.
Spain used Marcos Senna at an important time for them transitioning into the best national team in the world and staying there. They wanted Dani Alves. And now they are trying their hardest to get Diego Costa to represent them. Germany do it all the time. France too.
I think its important to look at the big picture. 1) The top teams are doing it 2) The more top players that train and play with England players helps the team improve 3) More likely to actually win something, especially without giving up the advantage of 1) and even if you only care about England players who are born in England, they would be the ones benefitting and winning trophies because they had better quality players around them
However, if a potential special talent like Adnan wanted to represent England for whatever reason (in this case, it would presumably be because he couldnt play for Kosovo) then of course I'd be fine, happy to have him in the team.
Spain used Marcos Senna at an important time for them transitioning into the best national team in the world and staying there. They wanted Dani Alves. And now they are trying their hardest to get Diego Costa to represent them. Germany do it all the time. France too.
I think its important to look at the big picture. 1) The top teams are doing it 2) The more top players that train and play with England players helps the team improve 3) More likely to actually win something, especially without giving up the advantage of 1) and even if you only care about England players who are born in England, they would be the ones benefitting and winning trophies because they had better quality players around them
There are actually two Irish-American players that the Irish FA have been trying to get to play for Ireland. Ryan Meara and Shane O'Neill. Though O'Neill was actually born in Ireland but moved to the US when he was 1.
http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/...goalkeeper-ryan-meara-accepts-ireland-call-up
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...do-rapids-defender-shane-oneill-ireland-or-us
http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/...goalkeeper-ryan-meara-accepts-ireland-call-up
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...do-rapids-defender-shane-oneill-ireland-or-us
If Deco and Pepe could do it, then why not Adnan? It wasn't that long ago that were discussing this very topic with regards to Almunia and Arteta and the England national team because they had become naturalised.
Nearly every other country does it, it's only on these Isles that we don't seem to embrace it.
Canada should have had Hargreaves, Hoilett, and Jonathan DeGuzman. All were born and grew up in Canada.
But all wanted the glory and money playing for more successful countries. Can't blame them, but still frustrating knowing these players could most likely get Canada to a feckin world Cup instead of losing must win games to Honduras 8-1.
But all wanted the glory and money playing for more successful countries. Can't blame them, but still frustrating knowing these players could most likely get Canada to a feckin world Cup instead of losing must win games to Honduras 8-1.
true.Although to be fair we'd need more help than Hargreaves could have given us. DeGuzman I think hurt more.
But I think that hockey's popularity hurts our national footy team more than any player choosing to play for a higher ranking country.
I do think a player should have some sort of connection to the nation he represents. I don't care if it's though birth, parentage or residency.
The only think I don't like is cases where the player chooses a nation because they are either not good enough for a call-up to their 1st choice or they feel they are too good to play for their place of birth.
The only think I don't like is cases where the player chooses a nation because they are either not good enough for a call-up to their 1st choice or they feel they are too good to play for their place of birth.
This has happened on a regular basis, especially with the Rugby Union contingent from Australia and New Zealand. You probably didn't like Graeme Hick then, being born in Zimbabwe but thought he was too good to play for them.
Pietersen (the willow wielder) has waded into the debate.
I don't know whether it has been posted or not, but Wilshere is doing himself no favours by acting like a nationalist who you might find behind Tommy Robinson. I mean, what the hell is he doing spouting his bile about how the England team should be only English players? Why not go the whole hog Jack and say that every Premier League team should field English players and no-one else whilst you are at it. John Barnes was born in Jamaica and could have represented them, Terry Butcher was born in Singapore and I suppose he could have played for Singapore, but he decided to play for England. The narrow-mindedness of some is disturbing to say the least.
And why not? He has every right to enter the debate. Saying things like that only causes trouble, especially on social networks. Here is a rather large list of footballers who were born outside of England yet played for England:
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers_born_outside_England[/url]
Remember Luther Missett...
And why not? He has every right to enter the debate. Saying things like that only causes trouble, especially on social networks. Here is a rather large list of footballers who were born outside of England yet played for England:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers_born_outside_England[/url]
Remember Luther Missett...
I didn't know Le Saux was born in Jersey
*PL inserts Bergerac generic*
We really don't. Not one player of the current German nationalteam became eligible through nationalisation as an adult. Özil and Gündogan were born and raised in Germany. Khedira and Boateng have a German mother and were also born and raised in Germany. Klose and Podolski have German heritage and immigrated as young kids, grew up and learned playing football in Germany. Podolski was 2 years old, when he came to Germany. Klose left Poland when he was 3, lived in France for 5 years before he came to Germany as an 8 year old kid. The only exception would be Cacau but the reason for his nationalisation wasn't the German nationalteam and he wasn't really important anyway.
We did nothing comparable to Spain and the Marcos Senna and Diego Costa cases in the recent past (I don't think we ever did something comparable, at least I can't remember anyone). Thiago playing for Spain would be comparable, but again that's something totally different than the Januzaj case.
I like how the French do it, Algerian, African colonies etc etc.
I hope Diego Costa can play for Spain soon, monumental cnut but a great striker. Just what we're lacking.. well, at least for the great striker bit.
Really?
The current England squad has one ethnically African player in it; one ethnically Carribean player; several mixed race players; a Muslim player, at least one Catholic player and several white (presumably culturally) CoE players.
I can't see how you can deduce that the English identity is insular. It is very diverse.
Err, there is no Januzaj case though. The kid hasn't decided the country he'll be representing and it's all media shit storm and a few tasty comments from Wilshere.
Indeed. However, I did explain this in another thread yesterday in that it seems to be a 50/50 split with the French players. For instance, Kanoute could have played for the French team since he was born in France, but he chose Mali. Patrick Vieira was born in Senegal and moved to Dreux later on, and he could have chosen Senegal, but he didn't. Desailly was born in Ghana, but again, he chose to play for France. Drogba lived in France for a great deal of time and went to University, so, he more than qualified to play for France but he chose the Ivory Coast. Nasri and Zidane could have chosen Algeria instead of France. The reason being is that Algerians are very proud people and you will find a large number of cars owned by Algerians born in France; with actual Algerian flags. It is a complex issue here in french-speaking countries. As for as the colonies are concerned, the British could have done the same thing I suppose, since Jamaica was part of the United Kingdom, which probably explains why Barnes played for England.
Yeah I know, I was just trying to point out that we don't do something comparable all the time.
Here here. Weaste in 3, 2, 1
Your comment 'how can I be English, when I am not white' in another thread would look a bit racist, but to a degree I understand and agree with it. England historically has been a place of Anglo-Saxons so obviously a not-white person isn't an anglo-saxon. But if they have been borned there I think that they can feel English, so I don't think that there is anything bad on representing England.
Talking about Januzaj, I think that the right choice for him is to represent Albania (Kosovo in case it gets accepted on FIFA but knowing that this won't happen in near future, at the time shouldn't be an option). That has nothing to do with me being Kosovan and wanting to see Adnan playing for us (though of course I would like that), so I am going to elaborate a bit. I don't know Adnan (though the city when his father come is only 30km away from the city I was borned and spent most of my life) but I know a lot of Kosovans who live outside (mostly in EU states and Switzerland). Many of them are my relatives and a few are my prime cousins. There are a lot of them who have gone outside of Kosovo when they were very young and by now they have spend 2-3 decades there. There are a few of them who have been borned in those countries (for those who aren't familiar with the situation, in nineties there was a war here which was preceded by very bad living conditions, more than 90% of Albanians in Kosovo lost their job after Milosevic came in power in Serbia and Albanians didn't have any human rights despite being around 90% of the population. All schools except the primary one were closed so my siblings and hundred of thousand of other Kosovans were forced to go in improvised schools. We didn't had right to get outside after 7 o'clock. Not going to mention all of bad things, but I think is clear to understand that the situation which preceded the Kosovo war was fecking bad. So, a lot of Kosovans - 1/3 of total population - were forced to leave their homes and look for a better future outside of Yugoslavia.) but I don't know any of them who doesn't feel Kosovan (Albanian) and doesn't mention it almost every time. From famous person like 'British' singer Rita Ora who has mentioned a lot of time that she is a Kosovan, or famous boxers like 'German' Luan Krasniqi to usual people, all of them say that they are Albanians, despite they probably doesn't spend more than a month per year in Kosovo.
Knowing all these persons, I doubt that Januzaj is a special case and feels a 'Belgian'. If he does, then I don't have nothing against it, but he would likely be the first Kosovan (Albanian) I know (from real life or from media) to not feel a Kosovan.
I think that the situation is hard to understand by people who have lived all of their lifes in their ancesters country. For that I think that the comments like 'Adnan should represent Belgium' (or in extreme cases England) are a bit naive and are given by persons who aren't familiar with Albanian community . Like for example, until recently Albanians from Kosovo in 99% of the cases didn't marry foreign women, this has changed in the recent years though which I think is a good thing. Of when they make a wedding they invite there all other Kosovans that they know, even if they haven't stayed with them for years, etc, etc.
Generalizing the situation, I think that a foreigner is always a foreigner. He doesn't get treated as 'one of us' by the new community (although it's great that now isn't as bad as before) and most definitely he doesn't also feels like 'one of them'. Especially if he has gone in that certain country after he has grown up. I am living for the moment at Italy and I don't feel Italian. I love England (they are one of the countries who have helped Kosovo a lot and if it wasn't for Tony Blair I don't know if NATO would have ever intervened in Kosovo war) and even if I come there, and find a great work that gets payed better than here (or my native country) I doubt for a moment that I will feel that I am an English. I would be proud to be a part of the community who lives in UK, would be always respectful to them for giving me the chance, but how can I feel to be something that I am not. Same about any other country.
Of course, the situation isn't black and white but I find ridiculous when some players represent countries that they aren't blood related with, or haven't been borned in that country. I think that the 'naturalization' rules are a joke. In my opinion, you should be able to play for a country either if you are blood related with them, or have been borned there. For that, I think that if Januzaj chooses Albania it is because he feels an Albanian, if he chooses Belgium it is because he is choosing a great country and team to play for and/or he feels Belgian, if he chooses England it is only because of money/fame/marketing. There is no way that a person can feel that he is - in this case English - if he doesn't have English ancesters, have lived most of his life somewhere else and has lived only for a couple of years there. If he chooses England (and I can almost guarantee that this won't happen) he is just a mercenary, nothing else, nothing more.
Has Januzaj actually given any indication that he'd be remotely interested in playing for England? Or is it just some weird assumption people are making?
For me, if someone wants to play for England after becoming a a citizen through residency, then they should make their intentions clear about wanting to settle in England, and also take an English language test. If this criteria is fulfilled, then they should be free to represent England at any level across all sports. Quite early on in the thread the point about international football in the traditional sense being redundant is the kernel of the entire matter.
A player should be able to play for a country of his choice, if he feels strongly about it and if he's a citizen of the country, naturalized or not. There's a reason why you get a citizenship after X years of living in a country.
What is wrong however, is exceptions made for exceptional players.
What is wrong however, is exceptions made for exceptional players.
Id quite like it if was simply a case of, you can represent any country where you have spent 5 years there before the age of 18. Nothing to do with your parents or where you where born. (If you have never spent 5 years in any one country, you go to 4, then 3 until an applicable nation appears.
It slightly annoys me when you meet someone who's parents are English, who spent their life in England, but who will support the West Indies cus their grandad is from there...
Well, I'm half joking. Identity is a difficult thing. If you've been bullied for much of your life for being Black/Asian/(is Arab acceptable?), presumably it's difficult to feel British.
That, or we should make exceptions for problem positions.
It slightly annoys me when you meet someone who's parents are English, who spent their life in England, but who will support the West Indies cus their grandad is from there...
Well, I'm half joking. Identity is a difficult thing. If you've been bullied for much of your life for being Black/Asian/(is Arab acceptable?), presumably it's difficult to feel British.
That, or we should make exceptions for problem positions.