[Rossa]

Way to go off topic. You instantly claimed I am stereotyping because of body features. Please do not speak/assume things on behalf of me.

For me Lukaku is one of the smartest players we have in our squad. His athleticism is not correlated with his intelligence.

For me, Bailly (currently) lacks the intelligence to be a world class CB even though he has the physical attributes whereas Lindeloff is physically weak whilst his intelligence in positioning/passing is better.

Way to take things too personal?

How do you know that Bailly lacks intelligence or just that his game in the past was like Giggs', that he has always been able to get back, outmuscle and out jump pretty much anyone, until he came to the PL. I don't agree that Lindelöf's intelligence is much better from what I've seen. Against Watford he started to dilly dallying when he should have just made a simple clearance - lack of good judgement. His runs forward are not very intelligent. He starts a run forward, stops and takes too long before he makes a pass - much like Smalling in that respect (though obviously better with the ball overall).

I do think you are stereotyping because one is physical and does not succeed - must be intelligence. The other does not succeed because of his lack of physical abilities despite his intelligence. Fact is, you probably know as little as me about their intelligence, which is next to nothing, so you are basing it on stereotypes. In fact, both players can be equally intelligent, but both may also struggle to adapt to the league.

 

[Grande]

Can someone tell me why this guy isn't playing on a regular basis? The man is a true athlete. His movement and agility is second to none. How the feck kan Lindelöf get game time before him?

You do know the answer to this?

 

[Grande]

Positioning and awareness? Based on what? How he lost Murray for the first Brighton goal? Or how he had no idea what he was doing and where he was standing for their second? He has more composure than Bailly? No way, Bailly has shown composure and calmness on the ball much more than Lindelof for me. And to mention even the third Brighton goal, he should have been much closer to the attacker, Bailly lounging in like an idiot brushed that all aside, but it was bad defending again if you ask me.

Not saying that Bailly is any better, but Lindelof is just as bad, only his playing "style" is to do nothing until is too late or to just watch passively while the attacker receives the ball and turns, by the time he is not close enough nor fast enough to close him out. That passive "defending" from him actually masks how many duels he would lose if he actually committed himself more often.

Conservative defenders are actually able to defend, Smalling is our best guy for that, Lindelof has shown nothing of that. He is getting babysit by Fellaini the past two games, we get Bailly instead of Lindelof and we are a better team easily.

‘The bottle is on the table to drink from even if the blind man claims there is no bottle on the table. The blind man claims all the other guests at the pub are clearly hallusinating, probably because there is poison in the bottle’ Fake quote from JP Sartre

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Simply not good enough for what we need.

 

[Adam-Utd]

United fans do not deserve Eric Bailly. Remember when he was signed, he was clearing everything that came into the box, and no attackers could beat him for pace? So he had an injury and is recovering and suddenly he is useless. He is a United player through and through, is still very young and has the makings of a world-class defender. Some perspective will help.

He's also made some horrendous mistakes and defended like a schoolboy. His form has dropped recently and he finds himself out of the team on merit. When he gets his chance he needs to get that form back.

 

[royboy16]

Bailly has the body but not the brain.

Lindeloff has the brain but not the body.

Just play them together then

 

[Darlington Padgett]

He's fantastic doing those last minute tackles but he's the one responsible for letting the opposition be in that position. He's also too rash at times and that gets him injured all the time. There is potential for a world class defender in him and deserves a chance.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Simply not good enough for what we need.

Nonsense he is good enough - just because he's going through a dip in form at the moment it doesn't change that.

 

[Slevs]

Way to take things too personal?

How do you know that Bailly lacks intelligence or just that his game in the past was like Giggs', that he has always been able to get back, outmuscle and out jump pretty much anyone, until he came to the PL. I don't agree that Lindelöf's intelligence is much better from what I've seen. Against Watford he started to dilly dallying when he should have just made a simple clearance - lack of good judgement. His runs forward are not very intelligent. He starts a run forward, stops and takes too long before he makes a pass - much like Smalling in that respect (though obviously better with the ball overall).

I do think you are stereotyping because one is physical and does not succeed - must be intelligence. The other does not succeed because of his lack of physical abilities despite his intelligence. Fact is, you probably know as little as me about their intelligence, which is next to nothing, so you are basing it on stereotypes. In fact, both players can be equally intelligent, but both may also struggle to adapt to the league.

So if you and I know nothing as you claim, why even discuss this?

I am taking it personal cause you're claiming I'm stereotyping. From my observations Bailly doesn't have the positioning awareness whereas Lindeloff struggles physically, do you need a dissertation for an opinion?

 

[Kostov]

‘The bottle is on the table to drink from even if the blind man claims there is no bottle on the table. The blind man claims all the other guests at the pub are clearly hallusinating, probably because there is poison in the bottle’ Fake quote from JP Sartre

Can I get a translate mr philosopher I skipped those classes.

 

[Ekeke]

United fans do not deserve Eric Bailly. Remember when he was signed, he was clearing everything that came into the box, and no attackers could beat him for pace? So he had an injury and is recovering and suddenly he is useless. He is a United player through and through, is still very young and has the makings of a world-class defender. Some perspective will help.

Well thats not true. Smalling always made more clearances than Bailly.

 

[Grande]

Can I get a translate mr philosopher I skipped those classes.

Your exaggerations about Lindelöf sounds like a blind man: that his style is to do nothing, that he has no more awareness than Bailly, no better positioning than Bailly, that he needs a ‘babysitter’ rather than teammates with complementing skills.

I’ve studied some of his games out of curiosity, and while not finding him a player of top United quality yet, I see clear strengths and weaknesses, of which are mentioned by several people. You seem to see no strengths at all, where many looking closely find them easily.

Your response seems to be that people like me ‘invent’ abilities, ‘want to see’ them or delude ourselves. May be, but probably not.

Mourinho obviously are among us, buying him, selling Blind, dropping Jones, dropping Bailly before him proves not that he sees him as the final solution, but clearly that he has strengths Blind, Jones and Bailly lack (while they may have other strengths). I don’t know wether you reckon Mourinho is deluded or not, you must have an idea of what Mourinho sees that make him prefer Lindelöf to Bailly and Jones at times this season?

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Nonsense he is good enough - just because he's going through a dip in form at the moment it doesn't change that.

I don’t think it’s just a dip in form (although he may also be off form which is compounding it). He often looks good to the average fan as he puts in some great last-gasp tackles. The problem is, it’s his poor reading of the game that necessitates a lot of these lunges.

 

[Minimalist]

I don’t think it’s just a dip in form (although he may also be off form which is compounding it). He often looks good to the average fan as he puts in some great last-gasp tackles. The problem is, it’s his poor reading of the game that necessitates a lot of these lunges.

I think he's worse than Lindelof in terms of causing problems for his centre-back partner. He's very talented but he's still very raw.

Plenty of time to get things right though.

 

[MadDogg]

Of course there has. When he's at his best he's brilliant. He's just not at that level often enough, either through injury or his own mind.

If you are going to talk about Bailly at his best, you have to talk about Smalling at his best also. And Bailly hasn't come anywhere close to matching what Smalling did in 15/16. Which is only one season further back than the relatively short period of time where Bailly showcased his best form.

 

[haram]

He always gets to play in his favoured right side. Anyone who is partnered with him has to play on the left. Probably why Smalling prefers to play with Lindelof.

 

[Patrick08]

I don’t think it’s just a dip in form (although he may also be off form which is compounding it). He often looks good to the average fan as he puts in some great last-gasp tackles. The problem is, it’s his poor reading of the game that necessitates a lot of these lunges.

Playing too much without the ball doesn't help either. Absorbing waves of pressure after pressure is never easy. All our CB's do well when they are a little advanced and struggle when forced deep with the exception of Smalling.

Our goals leaking failure should not be attributed to CB's only, Both our CB's can improve and sometimes our stand seems harsh to me.

 

[MadMike]

He always gets to play in his favoured right side. Anyone who is partnered with him has to play on the left. Probably why Smalling prefers to play with Lindelof.

If he's going to play much this season he'll have to either adapt to playing on the LCB role or show he's better than Smalling in that RCB role with a different partner. He's very far from the latter as pairings with Jones, Lindelof and Rojo have all been shown to be quite calamitous, unstable and even unfit to survive more than a few games.

So he better try to adapt to LCB position and learn to be a bit more calm if he doesn't want to be used sparingly in cup games for the foreseeable.

 

[haram]

If he's going to play much this season he'll have to either adapt to playing on the LCB role or show he's better than Smalling in that RCB role with a different partner. He's very far from the latter as pairings with Jones, Lindelof and Rojo have all been shown to be quite calamitous, unstable and even unfit to survive more than a few games.

So he better try to adapt to LCB position and learn to be a bit more calm if he doesn't want to be used sparingly in cup games for the foreseeable.

He already looks rash at RCB. I doubt Mourinho would trust him at LCB.

 

[MadMike]

Playing too much without the ball doesn't help either. Absorbing waves of pressure after pressure is never easy. All our CB's do well when they are a little advanced and struggle when forced deep with the exception of Smalling.

Our goals leaking failure should not be attributed to CB's only, Both our CB's can improve and sometimes our stand seems harsh to me.

I think Lindelof is also a defender who prefers to sit deeper and be more conservative, partly why he works better Smalling (the other reason being he prefers the LCB position which suits Smalling).

The problem with having aggressive front-foot CBs is that the whole team needs to be able to press high and generally refrain from sitting deep and inviting pressure. Which is quite different from the strategy we tend to employ in the 2nd half of most games, a strategy that relies on defending soundly and countering. So I don't think these type of defenders would work for a Mourinho team, not over 90 mins for sure.

It would also help if those aggressive front-foot defenders were less error prone and susceptible to individual mistakes too. Bailly's rash tackles and propensity to bicycle kick (instead of heading) the ball doesn't rely inspire any confidence in the team and if anything it inivites pressure of the very kind that he's not the best at dealing with.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The black Phil Jones. Rash, clumsy, injury prone & unreliable, I'd cash in to be honest. Offer him out for £40m, someone will bite.

 

[Garethw]

I’d give him a game at right back in the CL.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I’d give him a game at right back in the CL.

I'd rather we give the minutes to Dalot. We used Bailly at RB a few times in 16/17 & he looked like a fish out of water.

 

[Minimalist]

The black Phil Jones. Rash, clumsy, injury prone & unreliable, I'd cash in to be honest. Offer him out for £40m, someone will bite.

Jesus steady on, he's not that bad. Hasn't been sucking from our financial tits for 7+ years either.

 

[Ekeke]

I think Lindelof is also a defender who prefers to sit deeper and be more conservative, partly why he works better Smalling (the other reason being he prefers the LCB position which suits Smalling).

The problem with having aggressive front-foot CBs is that the whole team needs to be able to press high and generally refrain from sitting deep and inviting pressure. Which is quite different from the strategy we tend to employ in the 2nd half of most games, a strategy that relies on defending soundly and countering. So I don't think these type of defenders would work for a Mourinho team, not over 90 mins for sure.

It would also help if those aggressive front-foot defenders were less error prone and susceptible to individual mistakes too. Bailly's rash tackles and propensity to bicycle kick (instead of heading) the ball doesn't rely inspire any confidence in the team and if anything it inivites pressure of the very kind that he's not the best at dealing with.

I think if that were true then Smalling wouldnt make as many interceptions as he does.

He does both, he can sit back and defend but also finds the right moments to stamp out moves before they get too dangerous with his interceptions and rarely gets it wrong, unlike for example Jones who sometimes tries to win balls he cant and then gets wrong side of an attacker. Both Smalling and Bailly were among the highest output of these interceptions from CB last season with Joint 4th most incerceptions per game for both of them.

Behind goals scored where he was joint 1st that is the area that Smalling stood out the most in comparison to other CBs last season. He also blocked the 9th highest amount of shots.

Lindelof on the other hand had the 2nd least interceptions in the league. He's very much the sit back and defend in the final moments type of defender.

Smalling can play alongside either type, because he's neither one nor the other but a bit of both.

 

[Ekeke]

Jesus steady on, he's not that bad. Hasn't been sucking from our financial tits for 7+ years either.

He's very much the same type, as was Rojo.

Physical and aggressive CBs who's rash decision making and challenges can get them into trouble

 

[SuperiorXI]

He's crazy, but he's surely our best defender? If he calmed down and stopped injuring himself he'd be second to none.

 

[.Rossi]

Meh...

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He's crazy, but he's surely our best defender? If he calmed down and stopped injuring himself he'd be second to none.

So your saying if he did things better than he currently does, then he would be our best defender? That could apply to anyone. Given his performances over the last past two seasons, he’s nowhere near as good as Smalling. He might be our best defender one day, but he’s a long way off it at the moment.

 

[SuperiorXI]

So your saying if he did things better than he currently does, then he would be our best defender? That could apply to anyone. Given his performances over the last past two seasons, he’s nowhere near as good as Smalling. He might be our best defender one day, but he’s a long way off it at the moment.

We have seen him on form, he has been an absolute unit, far and away our best defender and vastly better than Smalling. If we're talking about right in this moment, he isn't playing so there's no way to compare. I still rate him the more talented of the two.

 

[Nico87]

He's a good player with the potential to be a top one, he just needs to improve his reading off the game and add composure but this will only come with experience. If you want your players to fulfill their potential you have to grit your teeth and ride out their frustrating errors, like we did with De Gea,and look how he rewarded us, we only have to look at Zaha to see what happens when we give up on unfulfilled potential too early by not giving them a chance to devolp. I know Bailey 24 but he has (I think) less than 100 games in top league football. Out of all the CB'S at the club, I believe he has the highest ceiling.

 

[Thiagoal]

His problems at the minute are all psychological! No idea what's happened but he seems all over the place and a shadow of the player two seasons ago!

 

[A-man]

If you are going to talk about Bailly at his best, you have to talk about Smalling at his best also. And Bailly hasn't come anywhere close to matching what Smalling did in 15/16. Which is only one season further back than the relatively short period of time where Bailly showcased his best form.

I think Smalling was one of the best defenders in the league last year. Very dissapointed he didnt make it for the World Cup.

As for Bailly he has had many good matches since he came back from his injury last season. Incredible how he went from very good and very promising to where he is today.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

We have seen him on form, he has been an absolute unit, far and away our best defender and vastly better than Smalling. If we're talking about right in this moment, he isn't playing so there's no way to compare. I still rate him the more talented of the two.

He’s had one off games where he’s been fantastic - let’s be fair so has someone like Rojo! Like another poster has pointed out, Smalling has also been fantastic in games - but the big difference is Smalling shows he can consistently play at a high level, Bailly has not shown this, and he’s been here 2 years!

Talent merely is one component of what you need to be a top player, no one doubts his talent. But over the last two years, not just the last 2 weeks or 6 months - Smalling has clearly been the better player.

 

[RedCurry]

His problems at the minute are all psychological! No idea what's happened but he seems all over the place and a shadow of the player two seasons ago!

Played through an injury during pre-season just to impress the manager.

 

[Dolf]

Was one of the best defenders in the PL for a short period imo. Will be our best defender again soon enough

 

[Ekeke]

He's crazy, but he's surely our best defender? If he calmed down and stopped injuring himself he'd be second to none.

No.

So if he was completely different?

 

[kouroux]

Was one of the best defenders in the PL for a short period imo. Will be our best defender again soon enough

"One of the best " and "short period" don't compute for me.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Genuine question - Name all these great Eric Bailly performances? Someone, please. How is he our best defender? I hear that all the time & I just don't get it. What has he done to even be mentioned in the same breath as Smalling?

All I can remember are the first 2 games of 16/17 against Leicester & Bournemouth. I honestly can't remember any others.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Genuine question - Name all these great Eric Bailly performances? Someone, please. How is he our best defender? I hear that all the time & I just don't get it. What has he done to even be mentioned in the same breath as Smalling?

All I can remember are the first 2 games of 16/17 against Leicester & Bournemouth. I honestly can't remember any others.

I think he was good in his first few games and the impression that he was a great defender has stuck ever since for some!