Well it's not an obsession, age is relevant and while you can't say how one player will age and decline, we are speaking about an investment based on previous examples and Dier at 23 is a much better investment that Perisic at 28. Other factor is talent also, I don't really expect Dier to come and replace Carrick like for like, he doesn't have that in him, but he'd do a solid job in providing defensive cover while leave the spectacular to Pogba and Herrera. From Perisic if he is our only other attacking signing i'd expect much more, since we need a game changer on the wings and i'm not sure he is the answer. I would love it if he proved me wrong but the guy is 28 and has proven nothing that Dier hasn't. He's playing for a terrible Inter team who finished 7th, while Dier is a starting player (two seasons running) for the second best team in the PL at the age of 23.
Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."
- Thread starter davidmichael
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I rarely agree with the Nevilles but throughout last season they were spot on on two things.
a- we lack width.
b- time and time again United had allowed a big gap to be created between our midfield and attack which is being exploited.
Point A will be tackled by Perisic and since its not a Perisic thread I won't explore this point further
Point B is the result of us playing anyone with a vague idea about tackling as a DM. Fellaini and Herrera are not DMs and they will never acquire the discipline, the positioning and the vision that a top quality DM need.
Dier isn't perfect. He's not as talented as Carrick is and he's not as savvy defensively as Ince was (I'm avoiding Keane since he's a freak of nature, the wolverine of football). However he's a talented DM and he's very versatile. His experience as a defender AND as a midfielder puts him in a position of understanding both roles. If Lindelof move forward with the ball, then Dier know he will have to stay back to cover for him. If Herrera and Pogba need to be more advanterous because we need a goal, then Dier knows better not to join them. If United are caught in a quick counter, he would disrupt the opponents game without committing himself too much, up until backup comes. That's something that doesn't come natural for a no 10 such as Fellaini or a box to box player like Herrera
We've been spoiled by a freak of nature (ie Keane) who was followed by a lesser freak of nature (Carrick) whose our master man (SAF) carefully built a team around. There's no news Keanes or Carricks available.
a- we lack width.
b- time and time again United had allowed a big gap to be created between our midfield and attack which is being exploited.
Point A will be tackled by Perisic and since its not a Perisic thread I won't explore this point further
Point B is the result of us playing anyone with a vague idea about tackling as a DM. Fellaini and Herrera are not DMs and they will never acquire the discipline, the positioning and the vision that a top quality DM need.
Dier isn't perfect. He's not as talented as Carrick is and he's not as savvy defensively as Ince was (I'm avoiding Keane since he's a freak of nature, the wolverine of football). However he's a talented DM and he's very versatile. His experience as a defender AND as a midfielder puts him in a position of understanding both roles. If Lindelof move forward with the ball, then Dier know he will have to stay back to cover for him. If Herrera and Pogba need to be more advanterous because we need a goal, then Dier knows better not to join them. If United are caught in a quick counter, he would disrupt the opponents game without committing himself too much, up until backup comes. That's something that doesn't come natural for a no 10 such as Fellaini or a box to box player like Herrera
We've been spoiled by a freak of nature (ie Keane) who was followed by a lesser freak of nature (Carrick) whose our master man (SAF) carefully built a team around. There's no news Keanes or Carricks available.
Dembele is a far better midfielder than Dier.
We all know that the reason Dier wants to come to United is so that whenever he faces Pogba and gets owned, it'd be behind closed doors at Carrington instead of being beamed on screens all around the world, posterized on YouTube for good measure.
Watching his youtube highlights yesterday just left me a bit unimpressed, when the ball was played into him from the back, his first touch was shocking on a few occasions, left me thinking he's like Fellaini, only he can spread a ball, some nicely timed slide tackles in there but he's nowhere near worth the figures being mentioned for him.
Total
Fucking
Madness
Oh, look what I did there!
Fucking
Madness
Oh, look what I did there!
Thanks G but from i gather he is a good all round player who doesn't excel in anything particular.
Dembele is a far better midfielder than most players in the league.
Just imagine if Bayern or Madrid were looking to spend big on Dier to hold their midfield - it's impossible to imagine. He's nowhere near that level.
If Liverpool were looking at spending £50m in him we'd be pissing ourselves laughing - and with some justification.
If Liverpool were looking at spending £50m in him we'd be pissing ourselves laughing - and with some justification.
he's also six years older. Dembele was still at Fulham when he was Dier's age.
Average player who excels at nothing. If he wasn't English, he wouldn't have costed over 15m pounds I feel. 50m is an absolute joke for him.
Bayern spent 40£m on Javi Martinez.
But his natural talent was evident from a very early age unlike Dier IMO.
We can just about get Perisic for £30m so I'm sure he would cost more than £15m, say if he played for Inter.
Truly embarrasing that we are signing this player for £50m when the same price gets you Fabinho.
Someone needs to overrule Mourinho and save us from a huge mistake.
Perisic and Dier in our first XI. Imagine that...
Someone needs to overrule Mourinho and save us from a huge mistake.
Perisic and Dier in our first XI. Imagine that...
Dembele had by that time been one of the best players in the Eredivisie (which was stronger than it is now). I dont think Dire would stand out in a sunday league team.
Who is a far far better player than Dier, particularly before his injury.
Frankly I think he is just as good as Fabinho. Neither are home grown, both are versatile. Both costing almost the same price. However, one is already acclimatised to the league. PL proven is not the be all of course but it is an aspect to consider. Mourinho being spot on in terms of defensive signings during his career adds to this.
Shaw and Schneiderlin were PL proven too right?
Which is why I said it's not the be all.
Casemiro was hardly a Roy Keane before Real bought him up. Khedira (at Juventus) is a Real reject. The days when Davids, Ince, Keane, Deschamps and Pep were clashing swords at CL level are long over. There's not many top quality DMs around anymore
I agree. We wont be buying Dier as a squad player, he would be bought as a first teamer (you would imagine) and there must be a reason why Jose wants him. Good enough for me.
There was nothing special about Casemiro when Real signed him back from Porto. If we were the ones who signed Casemiro back then from Porto people would be saying the same thing that you're saying now. Not every player is a superstar, not even at Real Madrid...
Debatable. He wasn't a £40m player then and he'd probably cost that and some change now and I'm sure it would be debatabed on here he is not worth it.
I dont think it can be proved at all that the PL proven players we sign do generally better than the players we sign from abroad. If a player transfers to another club there are always risks that the new clubs set-up, playing style, philosophy doesnt fit the player in the end, whether he is from the PL or not. Ofcourse some tiny, skinny striker from Spain would be a bigger risk than a Lukaku as the PL is physical, but someone like Fabinho who has excelled in the CL, and the ligue 1 as a champion isnt a bigger risk than Dier who's done feck all really. He hasnt even really cemented the CDM spot for Spurs.
Imagine John O'Shea and Ji Sung Park in the starting XI; neither were ever the height of fashion but they were both good players doing a job for their manager and their team.
If you think Fabinho is better than Dier and available for the same price that's one thing, but do you not think you have to trust Jose to build a squad of players who he can rely on to do the jobs he needs to get done on the pitch?
To be honest it would hard to get excited about any DM.
I have no problem with Dier, what I don't understand is why we never get to these players sooner.
Who was the last player we bought for under £10mil that progressed well? Hopefully that Juve scout will do the business.
I have no problem with Dier, what I don't understand is why we never get to these players sooner.
Who was the last player we bought for under £10mil that progressed well? Hopefully that Juve scout will do the business.
Good point.
People have short memories, we have won the league with some very workman like players.
Is Dier worth £50mil? No. But who fecking cares if he improves the system Jose wants to play.
Casemiro and Khedira weren't £50m each, though. The idea that Dier will suddenly spring to life as this excellent holding midfielder after a couple of average seasons in a very, very good system with arguably the best manager in the league when it comes to coaching is just a bit misguided.
Cant remember what Valencia went for. Prior do that Chicharito in a way.
There's no DM whose worth 50m because there's no top quality DMs around anymore. Its amazing but true. I have my theory of why that's happening but I wonder anyone would be interested to that.
Also keep in mind that prior to their United career neither Keane nor Carrick were as good as they were after a couple of years with us. We developed them to the top quality players they ended up becoming.
Id say buy Dier, put him near two amazing talent (Herrera and Pogba) and magic will happen. 50m may sound outrageous but its not as outrageous as many people think. FFS we've bought Lukaku for 75m and we'll probably buy Perisic for 45m.
No idea why anyone wouldn't want to sign Dier to be honest. He's only 23, has been the holding midfielder for the team who have conceded the least goals in the league for the last two seasons, has played 36 & 37 league games in both seasons so is always fit, he's strong, tidy in possession and would only improve alongside players like Carrick/Pogba/Herrera - not to mention how his style would clearly compliment those players.
He's the exact kind of player United have always signed, one of the best young established English players in the league and if he wanted to join we'd be crazy to not go for him IMO.
He's the exact kind of player United have always signed, one of the best young established English players in the league and if he wanted to join we'd be crazy to not go for him IMO.
That's exactly what Casemiro did, the only difference is he wasn't bought for 50m. Fee is completely irrelevant to how a player performs
Also if you think Dier has had 2 average seasons you must be a troll. Dier was sensational the season before last, Spurs went from 7th to almost winning the league. That doesn't happen with 'average' players in the team. Look how much we've struggled without a true DM could Spurs have done that well without one either?
Eric Dier wreaks of John O'Shea to me. An expensive John O'Shea. He doesn't excel at anything and I don't feel he is particularly good at CB nor CM. He isn't very experienced at any high level and I feel he will get bossed by good midfielders especially in the CL. Jesus wept
Seriously?
So perhaps 2 in what 10 years? It really isn't good enough, when you see the talent at other clubs who have been snapped up for peanuts.
I appreciate you can't sign everyone, but missing out on players like Alli, to then probably go after them for 10x what you could have got them for is fecking ridiculous.
Almost winning the league in the 3rd place 11 points behind Leicester, full of average players who have actually won the Premier League you mean?
A true definition of 'sensational' indeed.
I quite like Dier. Fee would be crazy but I think he would do well for us for a long time if we got him.
This is a strange cognitive dissonance that I can relate to. While I'm certainly past caring about inflated transfer fees as that's what United are faced with now (mostly through our own fault let's be honest) I find it a little sad that we don't seem to be able to unearth rough diamonds for relatively small fees anymore (Evra and Vidic for less than £20m or whatever it was
).I agree with Dier: it's not my £50m so feck it, if he can do a job and we can prize him from Levy/Poch (a big if in my opinion) who cares but it's a shame we had to wait for someone else to discover and develop him.