Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Raoul]

Doesn't change the fact that he's an absolute tw@t

Nobody turned on Arteta when he finished 8th and look where Arsenal are now. Nobody turned on SAF when he finished 13th. Well actually, they did but thankfully, social media wasn't around back then.

That's because the standards at United are different than at any other clubs other than perhaps Madrid and Barca. As for Arteta, he's spent wisely and other than Rice, made all the right signings at reasonable fees, something no one could ever say about Ten Hag.

 

[spwd]

We’re calling Ligue 1 farmer’s league where trophies shouldn’t be counted but we should instead count the Eredivisie and the Dutch Cup as achievements worth mentioning? That seems hypocritical to me.

Just a little yes.

 

[gaffs]

Injuries are also a poor excuse given that we just beat City and the only long term injured player to return was Martinez. What it shows is that ETH got his tactics horribly wrong when we got a grand total of zero points against Bournemouth, West Ham, Forrest, Fulham, Brighton and Palace.

Totally agree.

Having Martinez and Varane at center back helped a lot, but we are talking about them both being semi fit.

We ensured that City couldn't get at them, by playing deeper and keeping it compact between the lines, so Foden couldn't work in that space and so that Haarland couldn't have any room in behind to run into. We made the pitch narrow and said, if City have the ball, they must play it outside.

What I struggle to understand is why ETH has not been able to setup in structured way like this against teams when we have had the liked of Casemiro, Evans or Maguire starting?

Im not advocating parking the bus, but at least provide some cover in midfield so our back up center backs, who all struggle with pace, are not able to be ran at.

For most of the season, defence, midfield and attack have operated like three separate units, with huge gaps in between - we saw it from the get go this season when Wolves, Spurs and Forest in the first 3 games were walking through us. No other team in the PL play like this. He instructs the team to keep in compact against the better teams and we look far better for it.

What im saying is, where was this pragmatism against the likes of Palace or Bournemouth away, when we had makeshift defences? If he too proud to setup this way against lesser teams? Or does he just want to play end to end, basketball style football and hope the talent we have betters the opponent's system and organization? Usually the latter will win out.

Was is a tactical masterclass on Saturday, or was Ten Hag just forced to play in this way, like he was in the 0-0 game at Anfield and really that very defensive 3-1 loss to Arsenal at the start of the season.

 

[Danny_]

That's because the standards at United are different than at any other clubs other than perhaps Madrid and Barca. As for Arteta, he's spent wisely and other than Rice, made all the right signings at reasonable fees, something no one could ever say about Ten Hag.

Did you see the interview with Ole on the Overlap? He said he had virtually no say in the transfers other than having a veto. Why would you think it would be that different with ETH? Maybe, he had a little bit more say but he definitely doesn't have the kind of control that fans think he has.

 

[Atheist]

Why are we comparing ETH and SAF? An absolutely ridiculous comparison - because a once in a generation manager succeeded at unprecedented levels after finishing 13th and avoiding the sack, we should also give ETH and any United manager the leeway because they might hypothetically achieve the same? In that scenario, we never end up sacking the manager after unprecedented failures because there’s always a “but Fergie..”.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

You missed my “edit”… trying to be balanced too.

No gotcha, that was just a tangent from your second best comment.. I don’t think they are and gave two off the top of my head examples that’s all.

Remember this started with you talking about winning and Tuchel hence my reply of an FA Cup vs nothing but if you don’t want to cover all points/claims you made, that’s ok, you’ve got a lot of posters to reply to?

I answered all your questions. As per the second paragraph in the message I'm responding to, it is a bit of a pain when you are trying to do an entire gothca moment about 1 team being better then another when the initial message you quoted was me saying they were I'm fact better.

I'll answer any further questions when I have time but without sounding unkind I think because of how you post I will need to do so in a direct q&a format.

*If you've made a sensible edit then that's really cool.

 

[Waynne]

Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.



I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.

The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.

This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.

It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.

Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.

I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.

I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.

The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.

Brilliant post

 

[Raoul]

Did you see the interview with Ole on the Overlap? He said he had virtually no say in the transfers other than having a veto. Why would you think it would be that different with ETH? Maybe, he had a little bit more say but he definitely doesn't have the kind of control that fans think he has.

I could believe that when it comes to players like Ronaldo, which both Glazers were reportedly involved in greenlighting. When it comes to ordinary transfers, I can't imagine someone like Woodward or Arnold telling Ole who they were buying for him.

 

[ryansgirl]

Funny how those of us who have supported Ten Hag for a while arre suddenly being told we`ve got stars in our eyes because of the FA Cup win over City. Thank you for your presumption.

Ten Hag had to come in to a poor club culture with too many players willing to do what they`ve been doing in the title-less years since Sir Alex left. The Sir Alex approach of if big names don`t want to change their attitude and how they play then we will bring in ones who do. The Sir Alex approach of this is United, we do things a certain way and we won`t allow any player to undermine respect for the manager went with his retirement.

Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is too many managers within the time they were here given the standards set under Sir Alex. Ten Hag should be at least here another year. It`s clear that building a team that can once again compete for the title and Champions League is a sustained process. As for blaming Ten Hag for trying different forumulas - nothing venture, nothing gain. Again the players have a lot to answer for, some of them just didn`t want to get out of their comfort zone to adapt to Ten Hag`s tactics. We all know the big names that have to go, they won`t get better.

All this nonsense about sacking Ten Hag is looking like it will turn out to be another `Told you so` when United go for yet another manager and find out that getting back to the top just aint happening.

 

[Blood Mage]

I would rather have given Ole more time than Ten Hag honestly. We had some good times before the disastrous Ronaldo transfer.

 

[EI Beatle]

i genuine think the real reason why ineos are getting rid of him is because they both won't agree on future transfers and who has the final say

 

[gaffs]

He did, and I said as much in my post. You can absolutely question the signings from a perspective of have they been good enough. Our whole window last summer was weird for me. Mount was a bizarre way to open the window. Spending on Onana was also unnecessary- especially when it was clear as day from his 1st season that we needed goals in the team to kick on. That never happened, but the price we payed for his targets isn’t on him. If he wants Antony for example, and the club say they can get Antony it’s unrealistic to expect the manager to turn round and go ‘ no that’s too much for this lad, I’ve changed my mind’. Erik wanted Antony because he knew his game, his strengths and abilities and he knew he could trust him to work and to listen. That’s fair enough even if Antony hasn’t worked out.
But it’s very harsh to say ‘ he spent £400m ‘ when he wasn’t involved and we know getting rinsed for transfers has been Uniteds MO under the glazers.

Agree with the take on Mount and Onana. We bailed Chelsea out big time from their FFP problems. He was injured the back end of last season and had one year left on his contract. Not only did we pay 60mil, we put him on the type of salary he may expect as a free transfer.

Onana - chicken or egg situation. Do you first ensure you have a back four and midfield that are comfortable with receiving and playing out of the back? Or do you first buy a keeper who can distribute. We certainly don't have the former, which negates Onanas key strength. And as we have seen, he is a technically deficiany keeper. He goes down to shows in stages.

Disagree re Antony. I know there was a scramble post the Brigton and Brentford thumpings and The Glazers released money late, but it is neive to think that Ten Hag would not have been kept abreast of the situation with the price going up and up. At a point, he could have said "ok, hang on, i want him, but 85+ mil is ridiculous and I have doubts he will even live up to that price tag". And looking back, was that really a position of need"

 

[Judas]

I would rather have given Ole more time than Ten Hag honestly. We had some good times before the disastrous Ronaldo transfer.

You say that now, but Ole had to go, and you would exploded, much like majority of us if he'd limped on any longer.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Funny how those of us who have supported Ten Hag for a while arre suddenly being told we`ve got stars in our eyes because of the FA Cup win over City. Thanks

Ten Hag had to come in to a poor club culture with too many players willing to do what they`ve been doing in the title-less years since Sir Alex left. The Sir Alex approach of if big names don`t want to change their attitude and how they play then we will bring in ones who do. The Sir Alex approach of this is United, we do things a certain way and we won`t allow any player to undermine respect for the manager went with his retirement.

Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is too many managers within the time they were here given the standards set under Sir Alex. Ten Hag should be at least here another year. It`s clear that building a team that can once again compete for the title and Champions League is a sustained process. As for blaming Ten Hag for trying different forumulas - nothing venture, nothing gain. Again the players have a lot to answer for, some of them just didn`t want to get out of their comfort zone to adapt to Ten Hag`s tactics. We all know the big names that have to go, they won`t get better.

All this nonsense about sacking Ten Hag is looking like it will turn out to be another `Told you so` when United go for yet another manager and find out that getting back to the top just aint it happening.

Wait you think more people have changed their mind towards sacking Ten Hag after winning the FA Cup? Well that is patently wrong.

You can have a belief that it is important to control the changing room whilst also understanding it is important to not play 1 man in midfield and a deep defensive line that leads to us getting embarrassingly dominated nearly every week.

 

[Zumbi]

Read and understand the post I was replying to.

I did, and it doesn’t change the substance of your post, or my reply.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I would rather have given Ole more time than Ten Hag honestly. We had some good times before the disastrous Ronaldo transfer.

Yes under Ole we had sustained periods of time where we looked like the better team on the pitch against most teams in the league.

I ultimately felt that with Ole we couldn't take the last massive step but we were at least sat on the doorstep. Unter Ten Hag we don't even know the address to knock on the door of the best teams in the league.

 

[Florida Man]

Urm he won the FA Cup and Pep isn't available to take over. Who cares that we turned out humiliating performances weekly despite spending half a billion on his vision.

We can only get a manager who has won the league or champions league at his last 4 clubs. Not good enough to improve on that brilliance.

I know you jest but the FA Cup final shows what adaptability can do, even considering Martinez and Varane starting.

 

[ryansgirl]

He did, and I said as much in my post. You can absolutely question the signings from a perspective of have they been good enough. Our whole window last summer was weird for me. Mount was a bizarre way to open the window. Spending on Onana was also unnecessary- especially when it was clear as day from his 1st season that we needed goals in the team to kick on. That never happened, but the price we payed for his targets isn’t on him. If he wants Antony for example, and the club say they can get Antony it’s unrealistic to expect the manager to turn round and go ‘ no that’s too much for this lad, I’ve changed my mind’. Erik wanted Antony because he knew his game, his strengths and abilities and he knew he could trust him to work and to listen. That’s fair enough even if Antony hasn’t worked out.
But it’s very harsh to say ‘ he spent £400m ‘ when he wasn’t involved and we know getting rinsed for transfers has been Uniteds MO under the glazers.

Great examples, great post. Antony looked like a great buy for us so did Casemiro in terms of bulking up the midfield and bringing the weight of experience. Both of these players have the skills and flexibility tactically - too many United players who have been around for a while don`t handle changing tack very well or getting out of their comfort zone.

Casemiro had some very good games but now apparently he`s rubbish. The trouble is skilled, tactically adept players have not been able to thrive alongside some of the players who should have been gone by now.

 

[Leftback99]

The fans that want him out will turn on the new guy after about another 2 years and be saying the same things about him. If the club had listened to these, SAF would have been sacked before he ever got going. ETH had terrible luck this year with injuries. That's not his fault, it's just bad luck.

Why do people keep repeating this ridiculous SAF (and Arteta) argument?

You're bacially saying no manager should ever be sacked anywhere, because they might come good at some unspecified point in the future.

There's absolutely no sign that Ten Hag could 'do a SAF'. None.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Great examples, great post. Antony looked like a great buy for us so did Casemiro in terms of bulking up the midfield and bringing the weight of experience. Both of these players have the skills and flexibility tactically - too many United players who have been around for a while don`t handle changing tack very well or getting out of their comfort zone.

Casemiro had some very good games but now apparently he`s rubbish. The trouble is skilled, tactically adept players have not been able to thrive alongside some of the players who should have been gone by now.

It is important to be honest.

Casemiro has been a poor signing but I don't believe he was at all Ten Hag's signing.

 

[Isotope]

Did you see the interview with Ole on the Overlap? He said he had virtually no say in the transfers other than having a veto. Why would you think it would be that different with ETH? Maybe, he had a little bit more say but he definitely doesn't have the kind of control that fans think he has.

Having a veto right is kinda big thing. Either he approved or not.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I know you jest but the FA Cup final shows what adaptability can do, even considering Martinez and Varane starting.

What do you mean sorry? I think the FA Cup final showed that if you chuck half a billion onto a team that was the second best in the country a year before you arrived that they can win a one off game from time to time (copying the tactics of the man you followed).

 

[Marcelinho87]

For me finishing 8th wasn’t the main issue and I know this sounds crazy but hear me out.

Had we finished 8th BUT you could see a defined style and could ultimately say “Yep, this is how EtHs Manchester United plays” and over the season we saw progress and felt that at the end of the tunnel there would be light I could argue in his defense.

But in the end we were given chaotic suicidal football with no visible plan other than pump it wide and watch Antony/Garnacho shoot rinse/repeat.

and I know he has had injuries and with that I sympathise but I still expect those who deputise to be able to play the way the club as whole expects it shouldn’t go to shit just because other players have to play, they are still footballers at the end of the day.

 

[EI Beatle]

Antony looked like a great buy for us so

based on what, youtube clips ?

 

[Florida Man]

What do you mean sorry? I think the FA Cup final showed that if you chuck half a billion onto a team that was the second best in the country a year before you arrived that they can win a one off game from time to time (copying the tactics of the man you followed).

I mean that he actually adapted his tactics to address our weaknesses (midfield) and play to our strengths where we looked like a proper team. Really kept it tight unlike most games. Why couldn’t he have done that for the season? Could have kept him in a job (presumably) if so.

 

[ryansgirl]

Wait you think more people have changed their mind towards sacking Ten Hag after winning the FA Cup? Well that is patently wrong.

You can have a belief that it is important to control the changing room whilst also understanding it is important to not play 1 man in midfield and a deep defensive line that leads to us getting embarrassingly dominated nearly every week.

No, I`m saying the opposite. That some people on here are asserting that Ten Hag is suddenly getting a pass because of an FA Cup win but others of us have supported him for some time.

I think your other point boils down to what a Manchester United manager needs to do about the situation of coming in after multiple sackings of managers and players that just don`t fit in with the ethos that was established under Sir Alex. The Giggsys, Beckhams, Keanos, Big Petes, Rios are long gone. The English players many of us wanted to re-establish that English spine of the team mostly aren`t up to it no matter their big names and getting picked for England. Can`t adjust to a European manager who wants different ways to get there.

What Ten Hag is doing needs time and a stable environment to do it. And saying goodbye to those players that have got comfortable with their tactical limits.

 

[Raoul]

For me finishing 8th wasn’t the main issue and I know this sounds crazy but hear me out.

Had we finished 8th BUT you could see a defined style and could ultimately say “Yep, this is how EtHs Manchester United plays” and over the season we saw progress and felt that at the end of the tunnel there would be light I could argue in his defense.

But in the end we were given chaotic suicidal football with no visible plan other than pump it wide and watch Antony/Garnacho shoot rinse/repeat.

and I know he has had injuries and with that I sympathise but I still expect those who deputise to be able to play the way the club as whole expects it should go to shit just because other players have to play, they are still footballers at the end of the day.

Worth noting that ETH probably went into this season believing he had Sancho, Greenwood, and a fit Martial to compliment the signing of Mount in conjunction with the rise of our 19 year olds. Two of those players were taken off the table for non-injury reasons and Mount was basically a non factor. Then when you add the injuries to that (Martinez and Shaw were the killers), things begin to go south quickly. That said, the responsibility is still his to get the job done, which given yesterday's result is entirely still possible and brings our previous losses to the likes of Forest, Fulham, West Ham and others back into focus.

 

[gaffs]

Funny how those of us who have supported Ten Hag for a while arre suddenly being told we`ve got stars in our eyes because of the FA Cup win over City. Thanks

Ten Hag had to come in to a poor club culture with too many players willing to do what they`ve been doing in the title-less years since Sir Alex left. The Sir Alex approach of if big names don`t want to change their attitude and how they play then we will bring in ones who do. The Sir Alex approach of this is United, we do things a certain way and we won`t allow any player to undermine respect for the manager went with his retirement.

Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole is too many managers within the time they were here given the standards set under Sir Alex. Ten Hag should be at least here another year. It`s clear that building a team that can once again compete for the title and Champions League is a sustained process. As for blaming Ten Hag for trying different forumulas - nothing venture, nothing gain. Again the players have a lot to answer for, some of them just didn`t want to get out of their comfort zone to adapt to Ten Hag`s tactics. We all know the big names that have to go, they won`t get better.

All this nonsense about sacking Ten Hag is looking like it will turn out to be another `Told you so` when United go for yet another manager and find out that getting back to the top just aint happening.

The argument of, we have fired manager after manager and it doesn't work, doesn't stand up.

The difference is now, we "may" have a proper footballing structure via INEOS who are actually able to make an informed decision of whether this manager is the right man going forward.

And with regards to the big names that must go, i'm afraid Ten Hag is still relying on them more than the players he has brought in. Over the past two seasons, Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Dallot and now Mainoo have been key contributors. Damn, even McTominay has scored 10 goals this season and saved us from embarrassing defeats.

Ten Hag fields a team with 7 of his signings v Palace and we get stuffed. Are we saying that even the players he has recruited don't want to follow this tactics?

And what are those tactics? Make the pitch as big as possible when defending, leaving huge pockets of space for the opposition to work in? Because that is what we see weekly.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I mean that he actually adapted his tactics to address our weaknesses (midfield) and play to our strengths where we looked like a proper team. Really kept it tight unlike most games. Why couldn’t he have done that for the season? Could have kept him in a job (presumably) if so.

It's such a good question. Amrabat has been available nearly all season.

 

[Blood Mage]

You say that now, but Ole had to go, and you would exploded, much like majority of us if he'd limped on any longer.

Yes that's true and I was calling for his sack also. But I also felt at the time that having to accommodate Ronaldo and losing Greenwood had fecked him so I had slightly more sympathy than I do for ETH.

 

[Irwin99]

Having a veto right is kinda big thing. Either he approved or not.

I very much get the feeling a lot of United managers were basically told it's X player or no one else. For instance, I just don't believe Fred was ever a Jose signing, the same way i don't believe VdB was an Ole signing, or LvG, the man who managed players like Edgar Davids looks and says 'Wow, i really wanna work with Morgan Schneiderlin'. If you're desperate to improve a team and are confronted with a choice of a certain player or no one you probably are going to take that one option offered.

This isn't to say managers never got what the players they clearly wanted but I do get the feeling something has been very wrong with recruitment: every manager except Ole has spoken out about it and they're not all covering their own backs.

 

[NewGlory]

Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.



I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.

The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.

This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.

It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.

Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.

I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.

I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.

The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.

"Bad coach" that beat two of the best teams in this league (one of them possibly in the world), managed by two amazing managers, to win us FA Cup, despite insane injury problems. Right, that is what bad coaches do.

You could have saved yourself a lot of energy just saying that you don't like him and facts be damned, instead of putting so much effort into this impassioned word soup of a post.

 

[Danny_]

Having a veto right is kinda big thing. Either he approved or not.

He's not the only one with a veto though. Look at the interview and then tell me if SAF would ever have put up with something like that. And people wonder why the recruitment has been bad.

Edit: Ole said he was trying to get them to sign Haaland before he went to City. Did they do it - no. Think how different it could have been if they had.

 

[Kirk lazarus]

Why do people keep repeating this ridiculous SAF (and Arteta) argument?

You're bacially saying no manager should ever be sacked anywhere, because they might come good at some unspecified point in the future.

There's absolutely no sign that Ten Hag could 'do a SAF'. None.

The greatest manager we've ever had only became that after time , and yet he's 's the only one who has been afforded the luxury of multiple poor seasons on his journey .

Without hindsight . Please enlighten me what you saw at the actual time these poor seasons of Safs were happening that made you know he was great .

It's not stupid to bring it up , it's stupid to shut it down . We are zooming towards the exact same position we were in when Saf got the job in 86 . A club that hasn't won a league for multiple decades , yet people like you are unwilling to even acknowledge the leeway that the club had to give to a good but not yet great manager in order to break that cycle .

Nobody is saying that manager x will go on to replicate Saf purely on the basis of time given .

They are saying the great man needed time aswell, more than the lesser hopefuls who followed him .

 

[El Jefe]

To those saying give him a year with the new structure, are you aware of how much extra attention that will draw. Also at what point do you satisfy yourself that he’s done enough to earn a new contract.

To me it becomes an unnecessary subplot in the season. Even those who scream and shout player power at every turn, knowing your manager is on a trial period potentially makes his voice weaker in the locker room.

Extend him for a year at least or sack him. Giving him a year to prove himself also forces him to look for short term processes which might not necessarily benefit us long term.

I want him out but I’d prefer him getting proper backing rather than letting next season turn into a circus after every loss or the slightest run of bad form.

 

[AkaAkuma]

I like that he came out with fighting talk in his interviews. I also wonder if he is prepared to reflect on his mistakes in unison with higher management and start next season with a better plan.

What works in his favour is that the key players in the squad have been developed by him and play for him.
Martinez, Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo and Onana are his players and with him in charge are likely to maintain an upward trajectory. People may question Onana in that statement, and it’s not certain the degree of improvement he may have. But it was interesting Ten Hag commented on his leadership abilities.

Ten Hag also made the point to say the team depth was poor. It’s hard to disagree with that.

So I’d hope with recruitment out of his hands, some key new signings and also cheap depth added (quit with the 4 max signings BS) and 2 years of PL experience he’s ready to go again.

 

[NK86]

The fans that want him out will turn on the new guy after about another 2 years and be saying the same things about him. If the club had listened to these, SAF would have been sacked before he ever got going. ETH had terrible luck this year with injuries. That's not his fault, it's just bad luck.

It’s disingenuous to bring up SAF in every discussion when talking about the potential sacking of every manager. Fergie is a once in a generation manager, potential GOAT. If we keep hoping every failing manager will turn into SAF, while the evidence points otherwise, then we will never get anywhere.

The injuries are a valid excuse if you consider that the system he employed throughout would have worked magically if all our main players were fit. However the evidence points to the contrary. Even when we had most of our starting players fit and available, this system sucked big time and he insisted on keeping it without any regard to how awful we look under it. This just points out he has not yet figured out what works in the PL and is too egoistical to admit he got it wrong and change it. When he finally did change it, it seemed it was because he realized his job could be on the line. If a manager feels his ego is bigger than the performances of the club, then we are in trouble before it even begins.

After 2 years, do you honestly feel we have improved in our performances compared to prime Ole or prime Jose? If the answer is yes, I would love to hear or see the evidence for it. We still struggle when teams press us, still struggle to play out the back. We cannot press in a coordinated manner - which is perhaps the one aspect which is least dependent on the quality of players he has. If he knew how to coach that side, we would have become pressing monsters by now - see Liverpool under Klopp when he arrived and had far worse players than we have now, yet had them press like crazy and in a coordinated fashion almost immediately.
We create so few clear cut chances from open play, despite being so top heavy and having most of our attackers fit 90% of the season. Simply shows he cannot even coach the attacking play and patterns properly.

Injuries would make sense if we were playing a style which saw us improving and it was only the quality of players which was letting us down. Currently it is the other way round - the quality of players we have are dragging us to wherever we are despite the manager, and not because of his incredibly horrible tactics and coaching.

 

[Danny_]

Who people should be mad at is the 'team' in charge of the recruitment. But, they don't get to see them, just the manager. So, people want someone to blame. ETH is playing the tactics he has to use with this group of players. Does anyone think this group would win the title, even if Pep was in charge?

 

[Judas]

Who people should be mad at is the 'team' in charge of the recruitment. But, they don't get to see them, just the manager. So, people want someone to blame. ETH is playing the tactics he has to use with this group of players. Does anyone think this group would win the title, even if Pep was in charge?

Eh this would be true, but they're mostly his targets aren't they?

 

[hobbers]

Who people should be mad at is the 'team' in charge of the recruitment. But, they don't get to see them, just the manager. So, people want someone to blame. ETH is playing the tactics he has to use with this group of players. Does anyone think this group would win the title, even if Pep was in charge?

The nonsense bingo just keeps going with you huh.

Ten Hag had no major influence on signing players from Ajax. Or players he'd seen in the Eredivisie (Malacia and Mount) or players he'd coached previously (Onana and Amrabat). Or players under SEG (Hojlund). Yep. Absolutely none at all.

Also ETH had us playing suicidal tactics all season because he was forced to by the lack of options. It was the only way to go. Just look at what happened when he stopped doing that and played a pragmatic system that wasn't idiotic in the last few games of the season. It's not like we won them all including beating City to the FA cup.. oh.