Some players are on managers, some are not. Rojo, blind are on LVG; lukaku, Baily on Mou, a lot more by EtH also.I very much get the feeling a lot of United managers were basically told it's X player or no one else. For instance, I just don't believe Fred was ever a Jose signing, the same way i don't believe VdB was an Ole signing, or LvG, the man who managed players like Edgar Davids looks and says 'Wow, i really wanna work with Morgan Schneiderlin'. If you're desperate to improve a team and are confronted with a choice of a certain player or no one you probably are going to take that one option offered.
This isn't to say managers never got what the players they clearly wanted but I do get the feeling something has been very wrong with recruitment: every manager except Ole has spoken out about it and they're not all covering their own backs.
Recruitment is surely bad. But manager always have input on some of them also.He's not the only one with a veto though. Look at the interview and then tell me if SAF would ever have put up with something like that. And people wonder why the recruitment has been bad.
Edit: Ole said he was trying to get them to sign Haaland before he went to City. Did they do it - no. Think how different it could have been if they had.
Ole told United to get Haaland from Molde.Recruitment is surely bad. But manager always have input on some of them also.
ole could want haaland. But it’s pretty obvious he and his agents want more than United aren willing to offer.
and probably every manager of top team wanted haaland.
In yours maybe, not even close in mineJust look at the league -- the league never lies.
-1 goal difference, the historical number of losses and 8th.
One win doesn't make a summer as they say.
This has been the worst season in living memory. One cup win will not wash that off or shine a turd.
This a forum, if you want character limits then you shuld probably stick with TwitterSure, ask some concise questions (maximum of 3 and a limit of 200 characters) and I will respond at some point tomorrow morning or afternoon.
ETH has a lot of faults but not being able to forsee all our injuries isn't one of themAgreed. He let Fred go as well, which was bonkers, given the amount of injuries we've had.
He had no midfield bench depth going into the season, which could've been easily mitigated.ETH has a lot of faults but not being able to forsee all our injuries isn't one of them
I'm pretty sure DVB was not an Ole signing, he barely ever played him and in ETH's case I doubt Casemiro was his choice either because he wanted De Jong and got Case as consolation prizeI could believe that when it comes to players like Ronaldo, which both Glazers were reportedly involved in greenlighting. When it comes to ordinary transfers, I can't imagine someone like Woodward or Arnold telling Ole who they were buying for him.
Completely agree. Also playing AWB/Dalot at left back after sending back Reguilion, selling Fernandez and not considering Amass. I think he laid out plans assuming a certain scenario at the start of the season and when events under/not under his control turned for the worse, when plan A and B couldn't be implemented, he didn't have a plan C and got caught out with his weakness of tactical inefficiency.Its fair to say the tactics have been off for most of the year. Starting Rashford as striker, Garnacho on the left, shoehorning his golden boy Antony onto the right, playing Eriksen in Mainoo's absence when retaining Fred for bench depth would've been more sensible. At one point against Brighton he rolls out a bizarre 4-1-2-1-2 lineup with Rashford and Hojlund both at striker and Regulion at LB. Then in the loss to Galatassaray he goes 4-3-3 with Bruno on the right flank, Hannibal in right midfield and Amrabat at LB. Granted injuries played a part, but some of the tactical choices he made were just bizarre, and the results show it.
We brought in Mount so we had exactly the same depth and Mainoo and Amad were to be part of the squad until they got injured pre-season and we got Amrabat, so we had the depth, in hindsight it looks a bad decision but at the time it was the right oneHe had no midfield bench depth going into the season, which could've been easily mitigated.
Not be owned by AmericansOne game, which could easily have gone the other way, was enough to make large chunks of our fan base want ETH for another year.
Goes to show just how fickle football fans can be.
My go to when deciding on these things normally is....What would Real Madrid do. (If you want to be the best, you have to think like the best)
Mount doesn't have Fred's skillset and Mainoo was still unproven at that point, so that would leave us with an Eriksen in decline and Casamiro who increasingly blows and hot and cold. The player they should've moved on was Eriksen not Fred.We brought in Mount so we had exactly the same depth and Mainoo and Amad were to be part of the squad until they got injured pre-season and we got Amrabat, so we had the depth, in hindsight it looks a bad decision but at the time it was the right one
And tried to bring in Jude Bellingham before Dortmund stepped in.Recruitment is surely bad. But manager always have input on some of them also.
ole could want haaland. But it’s pretty obvious he and his agents want more than United aren willing to offer.
and probably every manager of top team wanted haaland.
I'm sure the lack of rotation and game management has something to do with the injuries we are seeing.ETH has a lot of faults but not being able to forsee all our injuries isn't one of them
No credits taken away from SAF for that, but imagine him playing with Onana in GK instead of VDS, a Casemiro/Maguire defence instead of Smalling/Vidic, a AWB left back instead of Evra and Rashford instead of near prime Rooney.Also it highlights how unadaptable ETH is to situation and set up a team to win. SAF managed to win against Arsenal with Fabio, Rafael and Gibson in midfield.
Back then arsenal always shit their pants against us.I'm sure the lack of rotation and game management has something to do with the injuries we are seeing.
Also it highlights how unadaptable ETH is to situation and set up a team to win. SAF managed to win against Arsenal with Fabio, Rafael and Gibson in midfield.
Absolutely, the most frustrating thing other than his horrible midfield selection is how its always rosy for him in post match interviews. Even when we losing those early season games left right and center, nmhe never once admitted the midfield of zero man doesnt work. Never admitted the signings arent clicking into his tactics. Everybody can see it, except him and he kept on going on and on. Thanks for the FA cup, he has to go. This team is better than 8th and at least capable of 5-10 goal differences.Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.
I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.
The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.
This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.
It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.
Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.
I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.
I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.
The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
The club was owned by those twats and run by their lapdog Woody, with all the humanity and professionalism of a a beer den. That is not what we want from United. It should not be ‘usual’. ETH is 100% right. It was a mess, ruined by neglect and rampant commercialism at the expense of the football culture, the staff and the fans. Remember the protests? LVG was treated shamefully. And the deep-rooted dysfunction of the club means that sacking manager after manager is no fix. It’s a long term rebuild. Hopefully Ineos, who made similar observations, will abide by them.Ten Hag likes to comment how bad the club was when he took over as a way to insulate himself from the 8th place finish. He neglects to mention that we actually finished 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd in the preceding 5 years. I would give him a pass if we finished 5th this year, but finishing 8th and having one of the worst seasons in nearly half a century is more than enough to sack him immediately. We sacked LvG for finishing 5th after winning the FA Cup and dismissed Jose even though he won us the EL, so it wouldn't at all be unusual to get rid of a manager for anermic league results even though they managed a cup along the way.
110%Yes because United and Real Madrid are apt comparisons. Christ on a bike. Real Madrid have shown they can win in every way imaginable. This is just a preposterous comparison to make.
I agree that ESPN coverage and punditry is about the worst in the business, but it’s smoke and mirrors to discount the validity of what he was saying just because of where he said it.
The fact is, Ten Hag used yesterdays game to say that having everyone fit, the game showed “what the team was capable of”, and that they were finally able to “play football they way we wanted to”. Well I bloody well hope not. What it showed, if anything was that with everyone fit he was capable of putting a game plan together that could produce a result, but the way we played and how we got that result was surely, surely, not indicative of the type of football we want to play.
This is apparently also a manager that can only produce when all his players are fit - if you listen to him - and can only produce when Martinez is fit - if you listen to the Caf - which is another huge red flag. A good manager has to be able to produce at least a competent performance during an injury crisis, even if no one is expecting you to perform at your best.
It’s also worth remembering, and I pointed this out earlier, to which no one had a reply, but at the start of the season - his second season - we lost 6 of our first 10 games with a nearly full fit squad. That kind of horrendous loss rate continued throughout the season, and was later explained away by some as the result of an injury crisis, but we came out the gate this season losing every other game. Spurs, Arsenal. Bayern, Palace, Brighton and Galatasaray, all turned us over in the first 10 games. We scored 15 and conceded 18 in that period. That run of 4 wins and 6 losses in the first ten games also included the opening day 1-0 over Wolves, where they tore us to pieces and had a stonewall penalty not given, and a very lucky 3-2 win over ten man Forest. So it could have been even worse.
Our form had been dismal since the Carabao cup final win last season, and has stayed pretty consistently poor regardless of personnel.
I think a lot of people, myself certainly, would be happy to give him another season if there were signs of actual progression in the team. There were a fair few people at the end of last season who were ringing alarms bells and saying he was shit, and I very vigorously defended him. I saw enough last season to see he had us moving in the right direction, and put the late season slump down to fatigue. Fatigue from competing on so many fronts (a consequence of success). But we came out of the gates this season looking completely clueless and disorganised with a non-sensical tactical approach. Almost every fan on this forum has been screaming for nearly the entire season about the absurdity of our midfield set up. Yet we win the FA cup with a park the bus performance, and suddenly people are all “give him time”.
I’d LOVE to give him time, IF he had shown any signs this season that he was building something, that he was moving us towards a clear style of play. But he simply hasn’t. He’s persisted with a baffling non-midfield set up, resulting in a record amount of goals and shots on goal conceded, as well as our lowest ever PL finish; and then in the final weeks of the season abandoned that approach for an ultra conservative 4-2-4-0 to win a cup. So what the giddy feck is the plan for next season? Park the bus? Back to tactical seppuku? Something new we haven’t seen yet, meaning we’ve built no foundation over his first two years? No, I’m sorry, but whichever way I shake it, he just doesn’t cut the mustard. He’s developed nothing in the last two years that can be built on. We are basically starting from scratch next season, with or without him, because there is nothing about the way we’ve set up this season that is even remotely usable for next season. That is damning.
The two things I will give him credit for, because a bad manager can do good things, is his consistent commitment to bringing through youth players in a meaningful way (vital for a United manager), and the way he’s handled disciplinary issues - which I fundamentally agree with. The problem is, if you are going to rule with an iron fist - especially in modern football where players are all over paid prima Donna’s - you have to back it up by being successful on the pitch. Otherwise it just doesn’t work.
I don't disagree but that doesn't excuse or justify finishing 8th after spending that much money, especially when we finished 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd in three of the past five years during our "broken" period that ETH claims he is seeking to fix.The club was owned by those twats and run by their lapdog Woody, with all the humanity and professionalism of a a beer den. That is not what we want from United. It should not be ‘usual’. ETH is 100% right. It was a mess, ruined by neglect and rampant commercialism at the expense of the football culture, the staff and the fans. Remember the protests? LVG was treated shamefully. And the deep-rooted dysfunction of the club means that sacking manager after manager is no fix. It’s a long term rebuild. Hopefully Ineos, who made similar observations, will abide by them.
Nonsense. SAF was already a great manager when he took over United. He broke the Old Firm duopoly and beat Real Madrid in a European final - two enormous achievements that nobody has been able to accomplish in the 40+ years since.The greatest manager we've ever had only became that after time , and yet he's 's the only one who has been afforded the luxury of multiple poor seasons on his journey .
Without hindsight . Please enlighten me what you saw at the actual time these poor seasons of Safs were happening that made you know he was great .
It's not stupid to bring it up , it's stupid to shut it down . We are zooming towards the exact same position we were in when Saf got the job in 86 . A club that hasn't won a league for multiple decades , yet people like you are unwilling to even acknowledge the leeway that the club had to give to a good but not yet great manager in order to break that cycle .
Nobody is saying that manager x will go on to replicate Saf purely on the basis of time given .
They are saying the great man needed time aswell, more than the lesser hopefuls who followed him .
Completely agree with thisHe is better than the laughable options that is being thrown in our face in the last fecking week, fecking Gareth Southgate, Zerbi and a championship manager. The only option being offered I would consider better than him is Tuchel because he actually won big trophies. Otherwise, stick to him until other options become available or another new talent shine.
I find it hard to blame Ten Hag for transfers. Our recruitment strategy at club level is non-existent. We've relied on just asking managers who they want specifically rather than a functional scouting department providing options.Eh this would be true, but they're mostly his targets aren't they?
It's not nonsense at all. He was very close to the sack . The achievements in Scotland were very good . I'm fully aware of them , I remember them . Nobody down here was heralding him a great back then .. great was a very small group , jock stein , sir Matt , shankly , & some at the time would put Clough and paisley ., .... He wasn't in that bracket at that time . He went on to be , and he actually went beyond .Nonsense. SAF was already a great manager when he took over United. He broke the Old Firm duopoly and beat Real Madrid in a European final - two enormous achievements that nobody has been able to accomplish in the 40+ years since.
Yeah without doubt that's the sourceMittens own fanzine UWS I'd imagine.
Yea, I guess so. If he's going someone has done it for them.So why has the club been poor in communicating it? They haven't.
Because everyone has the right assumption of what will happen without the club having had to make any kind of statement that would always have been ill-timed, before or after the final.
So if you think about it the handling of it has actually been pretty smart.
It's apparent where United is in his heart. He didn't sign for United after left Dortmund also.And tried to bring in Jude Bellingham before Dortmund stepped in.
He didn't want United because Ole wouldn't guarantee him a starting spot.Ole told United to get Haaland from Molde.
Yeah that will be the crucial thing IF he's actually still a target, however he has to be open to fitting into their long term plan. I agree that he would be a short term appointment. I would only change vote if he's ruled out of running for the job which could well happenWould Tuchel be willing to work in a system as a first team coach and not as a manager? Didnt he have issues with Bayern because he didnt get the defensive midfielder (João Palhinha) that he wanted?
Yeah they have to show strong decision making or like you said we could end up with another situation like Ole post PSG in 2019The FA cup win is glorious. Beating City (even though they looked half drunk) after a horrible horrible season was joyous. Kudos to Ten Hag for finally realizing that the team he built isn't made for progressive football and sitting back & being compact was our best hope for this tie. Beating Liverpool on the way to this cup win makes it sweeter. No can say that we had an easy route to the final like last year's league cup.
However, Ten Hag still need to go. The overall body of work has been far from impressive. The football in the last eighteen months has been horrendous and I don't see it changing very much. Like most decent managers, he can get results when we play as an underdog, but his primary style of football is naive and not suited to this league. It leaves too many gaps in the midfield and leaves the defense vulnerable. On top, his ability to recognize talent needed for this league, his squad management & rotation, his in game management and overall charisma leaves much to be desired. I cannot see us challenging for the big two prizes with him.
INEOS do have a tough decision to make, though. His stock is pretty high at the moment and if the next manager doesn't turn to be good or the new management takes time to get us out of the mess Ten Hag created with his signings then things will get toxic pretty fast. Watch folks who don't like "negativity" act like total wankers everywhere on social media. Every move by the next manager will be scrutinized in the minutest detail and chastised. The press who are after Ten Hag at the moment and don't think he is good enough will most likely do an about turn and criticize us for sacking a manager who won two trophies in two seasons.
They still have to make the decision. If they had decided that a change is warranted before the cup final then they have to go through with it. They can't think about the pressure and the scrutiny that would come from the fans and the media. They have to have conviction in their decision making. Otherwise we'd see redux of the same stupidity we saw under the Glazers and Woody who gave Ole a permanent contract after a good manager bounce and didn't even wait till the end of the season to assess the situation as they had planned.
It's for INEOS to decide if they like the Glazers they are happy to see us continue as a yo-yo club that wins an odd trophy. Or they really want to see us back at the top. And maybe they think Ten Hag is the man for that.
It said it here mockingly, but this is INEOS' big first test. Let's see what happens.
I thought it was largely reported that John Murtough's cock up that led to Jude eventually making the decision to snub us.He didn't want United because Ole wouldn't guarantee him a starting spot.
We had no success in buying young talent from another club and making them world class for a decade prior to that. Dortmund at that point just had to show them their lineup filled with youngsters and the recent history of selling players for high fees. Except Rashford and Greenwood who've been with the club since a very young age, what did we have to show? For any player wanting to step up, Dortmund was a clear choice over United and it didn't take much for them to sell this narrative.I thought it was largely reported that John Murtough's cock up that led to Jude eventually making the decision to snub us.
