I still think he will stay because (a) Firing him costs us a lot of money and (b) None of the alternatives are clearly better (and likely to gather unanimous support among decision makers). The path of least resistance will be to stick with him for one more year.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
The injury crisis is almost a secondary issue. For me it should all be about how he managed that crisis, how did he approach dealing with that challenge and finding innovative solutions to keep the team competitive.
By every underlying statistic 8th massively flattered Utd, if they had finished 10th/11th/12th or even lower it would not have been an unfair position given the performances. Structurally Utd were an utter shambles for most of the season and injuries can not be used to hand-wave that away. They contributed but Ten Hag showed an inability to adapt his tactics to fit what he had available, his choices made Utd much less than the sum of their parts. That is hugely concerning to me if Utd choose to move forward with him, his management of the squad was not far off negligent for most of the league campaign, showing a disregard for basic areas of team structure.
A lot of people seem to act as if it was a binary choice between parking the bus with everyone behind the ball or what we ended up with, a 4-------1------------------------5 shambles.
Based on these 2 years you don't really want him near recruitment or tactical set up.
It did show that he knows what he's doing tactically imo. That's important both in the league and even more so in knockout competitions, but it's also not sufficient to be competitive at the top of the league. I think there are better managers out there (Poch and Tuchel for example) but I have been impressed with how Ten Hag has handled some of the bigger games.
What about the other games martinez and Shaw were fit for when we were atrocious or do we just conveniently ignore those.
It's probably more worth noting the moment he changed his midfield setup we looked more solid. Why did it take so long for him to see what everyone else did for an age
We have played well for about 2-3 months of his tenure and that is surely not enough
Do we also just ignore the impact ten hags lack of rotation last season may well have had on our injury list as well
We played well against city but we won't often have the opportunity to play against such a high line on the counter and its all too easy to imagine us still being dross against other teams
Brighton have been playing beautiful football before De Zerbi though. Have we forgotten about Potter and how much buzz there was about him? He left and Brighton, was supposed to be the next big thing , Brighton continued as usual and Potter failed spectacularly in making the big jump. The difference between Brighton and us is that have an actual proper footballing structure. The people in charge know what team they want and what structure they want. The coach is there to just streamline the process. I don't think if we de-aged SAF to be 50 years old or have Guardiola right now we'd be able to play beautiful football. Our squad isn't really that good, much of it created on the basis of individual quality that each manager wanted without any proper idea how the various players would fit. We don't have that system, but hopefully now we will. And we have a lot of potential with the coming talent ETH has developed.
The one thing that makes me okay with ETH getting sacked is that after 2 years, I dont understand the brand of football he wants to play. He keeps saying we want to play good football, attacking, but half the time I do not see it. I think injuries have not helped at all this year, but for a lot of the season we have had our main attackers available and I just don't understand what they do. The main striker never gets any service, we have most the players jogging around like they don't care, yes injuries didn't help but what's the reason that Rashford does not put any effort in, Antony his 80m choice has done nothing, casemiro even when in midfield watched people glide past him, erikson has disappeared, mount although has been mainly injured, I just don't get where he fits in the team, Onana has had a good second half of the season but makes weird mistakes ... some of this is coaching and this you have to pin on the staff. He has had some good successful moments, Mainoo, Garnacho, I thought he handled Ronaldo situation as best as he could as well as the take over talks.
Overall, thank you for the two cup wins, but this season despite injuries, we should have at least seen an evolution in the way we play and it feels like we have gone backwards. The fa cup win feels like another plaster over the cracks and if I was a player, thinking this would be my last game and I could win a trophey, I would put in 1000% too. Alan Shearer asked the right question, why have we not seen this all season?
Overall, thank you for the two cup wins, but this season despite injuries, we should have at least seen an evolution in the way we play and it feels like we have gone backwards. The fa cup win feels like another plaster over the cracks and if I was a player, thinking this would be my last game and I could win a trophey, I would put in 1000% too. Alan Shearer asked the right question, why have we not seen this all season?
Any rumours if and when we will get an announcement? Surely, we should get one this week.
As I already mentioned, injuries have played a significant role in our poor season. Key players like Martinez, Shaw, and Varane are crucial to United's overall play, and their return in the FA Cup final highlighted their importance. With a fully fit squad, Ten Hag previously led us to a third-place finish. I have no doubt we would have finished in the top four if these players had remained fit this season. Our performance against City in the final is a glimpse of what Ten Hag can achieve with a healthy squad.It's our worse premier league finish ever and to top it off a negative goal difference yet he's ideal? It's a deranged view
People have spent so long slagging the team off and now they're putting a cup win all on Ten Hag rather than recognising the players. Of course doing so would undermine the narrative that Ten Hag didn't have the squad to do any better.
Our league finish is on Ten Hags tactics, they were shite and he deserves the sack for it. You can't and don't get a pass from such underachievement.
Since his arrival, Ten Hag has had to manage a number of off-field issues. The challenge to deal with these issues while maintaining focus on the team’s performance cannot be ignored.
Ten Hag has led us to three finals and won two trophies. Considering that we’ve only won five trophies in total since Sir Alex left, Ten Hag delivering two of them in just two seasons is a significant achievement. Testament to his winning mentality and ability to bring silverware to the club.
Since Fergie’s departure, we have finished outside the top four on six occasions. It’s clear that we haven’t been consistent contenders even for top four. You’re living in cuckoo land if you believe McKenna, Tuchel or anyone would come and make us title challengers. We need to evaluate this season in the context of historical underachievement. Plus although we finished on 8 place, we’re 8 points off the top 4. Surprising, isn’t it?
Ten Hag puts faith in young players, which aligns with United's tradition. Players like Kobbie, Garnacho and Hojlund represent our future and have shown significant promise under his guidance.
Several players have improved noticeably under Ten hag. Young talents like Kobbie, Garnacho, and Hojlund, as well as established players like Dalot, Martinez, Bruno, and even McTominay.
As I already mentioned, Arteta is an example of the importance of patience. Despite finishing 8th for a couple of seasons, he has since transformed Arsenal significantly.
Sacking Ten Hag now would disrupt the progress made and force the club to start over again. There is no a better manager available who can instantly transform us into title challengers.
Giving Ten Hag another season is a wise choice to allow him to build a team capable of making United serious contenders once more.
They’ve never had to deal with it before so it’s still technically allowed
How many innovative solutions are there realistically to keep a team competitive when even the backups to the backups to the cb's are injured and we have to stick Casemiro as a cb, a player that was already having a shit season. When we've been without a recognized left fullback for the majority of the season and we've been forced to rotate between Dalot, AWB, Lindelof (when he hasn't been injured) out there. I mean, christ. How competitive does City look without individual players like Rodri? How well did Liverpool fare when they lost VVD and struggled with injuries in midfield. Teams have key players in key positions that allows them to play as intended, we didn't just lose the key players we also lost all of their backups.
"Throughout the course of the season, 21 Old Trafford players were injured and a total of 1,620 days were lost to those on the sidelines.
This does not include left-back Tyrell Malacia because he was injured before the start of the campaign, but it does include Lisandro Martinez who has missed 214 days from three separate injuries."
Just gotta come up with an innovative solution.
Please see my response above.
Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. Why disrupt the progress and start over again? Tell me which manager could immediately turn us into challengers.
The context is in there in his own words and quoted as saying"I set requirements in advance about how I want to work," he told Dutch outlet Trouw.
"If they aren't granted, I won't do it. I am ultimately responsible and accounted for the results. I don't want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me."
Basically saying that whilst he doesn’t expect to just bring absolutely everyone he wants straight away he wanted to bring the players in that he wanted and the club would then work on bringing those players in for him, this was non negotiable as maybe he saw how we’d bought players in over the years and believed he could do better.
As I’ve just shown above in ETH’s own words him having control over who was brought in was non negotiable for him and he wouldn’t have agreed to join us without such control, maybe because of how bad our recruitment had been he wanted that control but he’s shown he’s no better at it.
Like I said first time round though I wanted ETH in and not using this as a stick to beat him with, unlike a lot of things often seen on this isn’t based on opinion and is actual quotes from the man himself. I’m not going to get into tactics, formations, in game management or stubbornness and just on recruitment alone which in his own words he has/had major control over.
What will you be wearing?
That doesn't refute my point, those teams were up there and had good footballers
Well yeah 2008, points wise we were close. In 09/10 and 10/11, Arsenal were also in the race for large portions but dropped off.
This thread isn't even about Arsenal; but don't compare Wenger to ETH
Just read that INEOS are unsure about sacking ETH because they think it will be an unpopular decision amongst the fan base.
It is important to remember that the entire season, regardless of injuries, ten hag had the option to play compact with two mobile players sitting in front of the makeshift defence, and chose to be more open.
If he goes, it was his own choices that did it.
Injuries are an excuse for not improving on last year, but its ten hags tactics that got us struggling against brentford.
If he goes, it was his own choices that did it.
Injuries are an excuse for not improving on last year, but its ten hags tactics that got us struggling against brentford.
You’d want them to be thorough and take their time on a decision of this magnitude. Ideally, we’d have Omar and Ashworth on hand to make it but that might be too late, which is why I expect them to end up extending Ten Hag for one more year and bank on fan gratitude from the FA cup.
What message does that send to the under 21’s and under 18’s ? Basically saying “as manager I’d rather play a past it defensive midfielder who’s having a nightmare season at centre back than you even though you’re a natural centre back” or “hi Harry Amass, look I know you’ve shown this season that you’re one of the best young left backs around and trained with the first team countless times but even though we don’t have any left backs I’d rather play Lindelof there than you”
I'm against sacking him, but this is not a good reason. This new ownership look like they don't have a clue.
Sacking Ten Hag would not only be unpopular but also a very stupid decision.
Anyone credible reporting this ?
Real Madrid (who Casemiro was signed from) also used their DM as CB a bunch of times and they had a good season (95 pts, CL final...).
Just the old daily express. Doesn’t mean it isn’t true though.
They've been told to sit deep.
Also explain why they can't when loads of defenders without pace play in a high line?
And Maguire and Evans aren't even that slow despite not being lightning quick. Varane is pretty fast yet he's been told to sit deep as well.
Plus you say Ten Hag wants to play his system regardless of personnel, if thats the case why is he persisting with such a deep defensive line?
There's many different systems between sitting deep and playing on the counter and playing with no midfield and allowing the opposition to attack your goal unopposed mate.
I assume people who want him to have another season really only means have essentially a probation period for next season.
Because if he does stay we don't need a full season of he continues doing bad. If we let him stay and we are doing bad 1 or 2 months into the season then he should be sacked on the spot.
Because if he does stay we don't need a full season of he continues doing bad. If we let him stay and we are doing bad 1 or 2 months into the season then he should be sacked on the spot.
Unable to confirm or deny.
It wouldnt be unless Southgate was his replacement.
But also, if there was even a hint of truth to that then we're doomed because that'd make them even worse than Woodward.
He had his decision making influenced by fans and pundits in hiring Ole. Ineos will have gone a step further into insanity by actually changing their minds because of fan sentiment.
Issue with that is that the managers we could have got during pre season are gone.
The most depressing thing about all this is that you can already predict the moans from the majority if things go wrong.
De Zerbi - won 4 of 19 league games in 2024. How does that qualify him to come and manage United? Ridiculous from the club
McKenna - nowhere near experienced enough for a club of this size. Stupid gamble. What were INEOS thinking
Pochettino - serial underachiever. His Spurs and Chelsea records will be picked apart. Even Woodward wasn't stupid enough to hire him
Tuchel - we knew he was difficult to work with. Look at his record! Was always going to blow up just like Jose did.
All of these guys are being backed now for the simple reason that everyone's decided they need a change, because they've argued for it for so long. Dont care who - get this guy out. All the same posters will be first in the queue to rip them apart for 6 months the first chance they get.
De Zerbi - won 4 of 19 league games in 2024. How does that qualify him to come and manage United? Ridiculous from the club
McKenna - nowhere near experienced enough for a club of this size. Stupid gamble. What were INEOS thinking
Pochettino - serial underachiever. His Spurs and Chelsea records will be picked apart. Even Woodward wasn't stupid enough to hire him
Tuchel - we knew he was difficult to work with. Look at his record! Was always going to blow up just like Jose did.
All of these guys are being backed now for the simple reason that everyone's decided they need a change, because they've argued for it for so long. Dont care who - get this guy out. All the same posters will be first in the queue to rip them apart for 6 months the first chance they get.
Not really fair on Ineos, that, the reality of the situation is there is no major upgrade on EtH. Tuchel perhaps, but he isn't a 'yes man' by any stretch.
Plus, they really do not want to have the relationship with supporters which the Glazers had. Exceptionally bad for the brand. So they'll be blanch about appointing duds as the PR is difficult to wrangle.
Nope. Needs a whole season to implement his style of play. Injuries stopped him from doing it this season
If that's the case we are well and truly fecked. They are willing to sabotage another season just because fans on social media are emotional? Hopefully sensible heads prevail here.
Not sacking a manager because of fan reaction/sentiment is not the way to run a football club. The fanbase will be divided any decision they make, they need to make one, announce it and stick with it.
I'm starting to think Jim is an idiot.
Unless they have evidence that Ten Hag's incompetence led to the MULTITUDE of injuries, the attitude of Sancho and Rashford, and the players being shit in many many games, then how can they sack him?
And De zErbi now being touted in the Jamie Jackson fanzine, I mean the Guardian football page. Give me a break.
Leave Ten Hag alone. Sort out the attitude of the players and their lifestyles. And sort out the injuries.
Unless they have evidence that Ten Hag's incompetence led to the MULTITUDE of injuries, the attitude of Sancho and Rashford, and the players being shit in many many games, then how can they sack him?
And De zErbi now being touted in the Jamie Jackson fanzine, I mean the Guardian football page. Give me a break.
Leave Ten Hag alone. Sort out the attitude of the players and their lifestyles. And sort out the injuries.
What is his brand of football? This is a genuine question, 2 years and 400m later nobody can answer it.
And another thing. The Gary Neville bandwagon also has a lot to answer for. All the failed managers producing content to make money for Sky and themselves. Get a grip.
And the ITV and BBC pundits are not much better. They were embarrasing on Saturday with ETH after the game. The amount of shit he has had to deal with this year. And they play a near perfect final.
And the ITV and BBC pundits are not much better. They were embarrasing on Saturday with ETH after the game. The amount of shit he has had to deal with this year. And they play a near perfect final.
Doesn't Ole have the best record of any manager against Pep or something equally ridiculous? One off games aren't representative. We have 18 months of shite that is far more telling.
Oh god relax. Neville and Keane were both saying ten Hag in as recently as last week. Do people actually bother to listen to pundits before getting their knickers in a twist about them? It's literally endless with people moaning about Neville and co.
Noone has asked for anyone to come in to immediately make us title contenders, so no point using that as an argument. What we are asking for though is ability to get the best out of what you have available, instead of constantly setting us up to fail.
Injuries have made it significantly harder I agree, but the tactical issues have been evident since the first match with pretty much a full squad for the first matches of the season (which included pretty much the same loss rate). We have been dreadful regardless of opposition for pretty much the entire season. Since your argument is about progress; what progress has there been this season? Underlying metrics had us racing to the bottom, embarrassing results have been frequent.
I'll give him praise for keeping faith in the youngsters, and keeping squad harmony (from the outside looking in) in check despite embarrassing results all over.