Cool.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I also think SJR's people will get rid of ETH in the summer (or sooner), but I have a hard time believing that "FootballTransfers" has any access to exclusive news.
I’ve been Ten Hag in but I can’t shake that the club do need a complete fresh start this summer.
New footballing owners, chief exec, sporting director and manager.
And struggling to beat Newport with your best XI available is ridiculous
New footballing owners, chief exec, sporting director and manager.
And struggling to beat Newport with your best XI available is ridiculous
I disagree. You cant let a malaise set in, if it hasn't already.
I suppose it all depends on who the targets are. Most that are on the bookies shortlist are out of work currently.
I would think that INEOS would want the Europa league. The extra home game revenue helps the club and the potential for the next manager to test themselves in Europe, all be it the second tier competition, can only be a good thing.
There isn't. Jac Tabolt is a known bullshitter, which is why he's on the banned list in the tweets thread.
I don't disagree with you but I'm not sure the structural issues can be fixed with different personnel.
Look at the passing network
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Don't think it was a struggle in the end. We toyed with them, they came back, we pulled away and toyed with them some more. There was not one moment in the game I felt uncomfortable - they had a good 10 mins thats about it.
I was confident we'd win it too, but to say we were toying with them at will seems quite generous.
I'm aware the article itself likely won't be based on any solid source or information, but it's definitely plausible Ten Hag will get the sack in the summer for the reasons they've mentioned (as well as his inability to get anything out of this group of players this season).
I think he probably will go in the summer too, it'll just be a shame if it isn't sooner.
The time period I was quoting was for the whole of his tenure really as a lot of the issues with the squad have been there from the start. In relation to injuries though and the sharp decline and poor perception of everything I’d say the slide started in March last year. From then although I haven’t watched all the games but I would agree that we have had games as you have described but also games like I have too.
The overall point though rather than get caught up was that there was peaks as well as lows but the impression would be that it was all poor. As I said before consistency is what kills us, and I’d agree that by now I would have hoped that at least we could have kept for more than 2 to 3 games, or 1/2 this season before we loose again.
Decision making and sloppiness kill us in games more than any tactics I think, although maybe the tactics influence these areas more than I think. Either way hopefully we get minimal injuries before the end of the season and we can see progress.
You cannot be serious.
Ah absolutely - no guarantee that we're going to start playing amazing football - just maybe less shit than we currently are.
Why on earth not? This season hasn't been great but ETH is still a very respected coach. Did an exceptional job at Ajax and had a good first season with us too. There's also a very strong history of Dutch managers and players at Barca.
They need a new kit man.
If he doesn't turn around our form hel go, I agree. But he can, plausibly.
Whilst he‘s at fault for our game performances, he is a victim to the Glazer way of working and how it seems like there‘s no real structure at the club in between the first team and the owners.
There is an element of horse before the cart with him, in that maybe he would hypothetically fare better in that proposed INEOS structure, where there’s a football minded CEO, a DoF and a Head of Recruitment all supporting him with decisions and maybe he’d be doing better because the pressure on him would be less and he can focus just on first team performances. Overmars was basically the DoF at Ajax and he had VDS over him as the CEO, which is probably a much better environment than the one we presented to him at United. Sadly the damage has already been done this season. I think if we played great but still lost with all the injuries, he may have got a reprieve.
Even now with Murtough being shoved into a senior position, it feels like the Glazers were foolishly still trying to fit any manager into the SAF shaped hole a decade later, which a) no one could do because he’s arguably the best manager ever and b) that manager concept was antequated anyway.
There is an element of horse before the cart with him, in that maybe he would hypothetically fare better in that proposed INEOS structure, where there’s a football minded CEO, a DoF and a Head of Recruitment all supporting him with decisions and maybe he’d be doing better because the pressure on him would be less and he can focus just on first team performances. Overmars was basically the DoF at Ajax and he had VDS over him as the CEO, which is probably a much better environment than the one we presented to him at United. Sadly the damage has already been done this season. I think if we played great but still lost with all the injuries, he may have got a reprieve.
Even now with Murtough being shoved into a senior position, it feels like the Glazers were foolishly still trying to fit any manager into the SAF shaped hole a decade later, which a) no one could do because he’s arguably the best manager ever and b) that manager concept was antequated anyway.
Pretty sure you'd be one of the only people on the planet who wouldn't be surprised by this
I’m gutted he hasn’t worked out as we’d all hoped, the way the league is now and potentially looking the next year or two we’d have a great chance if he’d started building a good side. Instead every match is painful.
Getting flashbacks of that summer with AWB, Maguire, James, and chasing Longstaff from Newcastle all over again with English/British talent
Fergie used to do that, why are you so concerned?Getting flashbacks of that summer with AWB, Maguire, James, and chasing Longstaff from Newcastle all over again with English/British talent
Why wait till the summer? I honestly don't think Erik is capable of putting any runs together. Between Chelsea and United, I think Chelsea has a better chance as I trust Pot alot more than ETH. Any manager who comes in now can do exactly what ETH is doing. A pragmatic coach with EPL experience will probably do better. It is really a waste of time to stick with him. It is good for the new manager to come in see the state of the club and player. He has 1-2 months to see how these players respond to instructions. He can start planning to the next season deciding who is not a part of the team and who is needed. If he wait for the summer to wait, everytime will be delay by 2-3 months. Late scouting, late transfer, players cannot be integrated into the squad.
Cost
It’s already too late. It’s more about whether the club feels embarrassed if we ended up outside the top half of the league. It could happen.
Because Fergie knew what a good player looked like.
Precisely because those players I listed were hardly successes and we'd be lucky to make half the transfer fees back from AWB and Maguire (we did well with James though). I'm not saying they're total flops or bad players either because they're not but the fees were ridiculous for the level of quality we actually got. The British tax thing is real so some caution is warranted.
I wonder does manager compensation count under FFP? If it does it could well be cost keeping him in the job.
Because they presumably want to have a team together to decide on the next manager rather than sack him now to appease angry fans.
I'm skeptical Chelsea could do anything.
4D chess. Waste the entire budget on shit players so that there's no money left to sack him.
We've been buying shit players for years. I doubt we need much encouragement.
Barca have had their share of questionable managers, even recently (Koeman, Setien), but they need to nail their next appointment as their financial position pretty much requires them to be in CL and do well there every year. Also can’t imagine them hiring a coach that just failed at another big club. They won’t have him anywhere near the list.
When he leaves his next stop is going to be an aspiring Bundesliga / Serie A / La Liga team in the mold of Wolfsburg, Lazio or Sevilla, or back to the Netherlands.
It does. Like I said in another thread, crashing out of the CL and costing the club £15m+ in the process probably helps keep him in a job.
But if it’s the calibre of players like Kane, Bellingham, Rice etc we’re talking about then I don’t see an issue with this. Fergie always wanted the best British players, it’s just that we’ve bought the wrong ones in over the last decade.Getting flashbacks of that summer with AWB, Maguire, James, and chasing Longstaff from Newcastle all over again with English/British talent
I don’t have a lot of time for ETH, but I think he’s handled the issue with Rashford well this week. Sorted out in-house and squashed all speculation.
I expect ETH will keep his job until the end of the season, regardless of results now, because the club doesn't have the financial flexibility to sack him - surely it would push spending over FFP limits and would incur a fine? Given this is his second full season, then if he got a 4 year contract, getting rid in the summer will probably be cheaper - especially if we don't hit potential targets in his contract - I'm guessing but seems obvious.
Agreed. I think he's done well with Ronaldo, Sancho and now Rashford. It's just the footballing bit that I find underwhelming
I have been thinking, what does him 'turning it around' to a point where we are going to just forget the last several months even mean?
We won't make CL, we probably won't win the FA Cup unless we are handed a similarly easy draw to last year's League Cup (we have been quite lucky with that so far with Wigan and Newport, might play Bristol now).
Even if we start playing slightly better with everyone back, there'll still be doubts whether he will be able to replicate the same kind of form with 2-3 players out - and that major injury crisis is inevitable to happen again because it happens to virtually everyone at one point or another. I don't think playing semi-acceptable football for 3 months and getting us to 60-62 points should give a manager a clean slate and another year where we could realistically be back to square one after that, albeit with another 200+ million spent on players who the next manager may not even want.
We could very well dig ourselves a grave if we just pretend winning a few games against teams with nothing to play for is enough to give him another season.
We won't make CL, we probably won't win the FA Cup unless we are handed a similarly easy draw to last year's League Cup (we have been quite lucky with that so far with Wigan and Newport, might play Bristol now).
Even if we start playing slightly better with everyone back, there'll still be doubts whether he will be able to replicate the same kind of form with 2-3 players out - and that major injury crisis is inevitable to happen again because it happens to virtually everyone at one point or another. I don't think playing semi-acceptable football for 3 months and getting us to 60-62 points should give a manager a clean slate and another year where we could realistically be back to square one after that, albeit with another 200+ million spent on players who the next manager may not even want.
We could very well dig ourselves a grave if we just pretend winning a few games against teams with nothing to play for is enough to give him another season.
I've been saying the same thing. Realistically, the absolute best case scenario is we finish 4th if there is a major drop off from other teams and we win practically every game. It's still not a great achievement and even a 4th place finish in a steady season would have him under scrutiny. I just don't see any way back for him now. We'd have to get top 4 and stuff the likes of Liverpool, City, Arsenal in convincing fashion. Even then I'd be thinking 'we're clearly capable, we just need somebody that can get this out of the team consistently'.
70 points and good play. 17 matches, point equivalent to 13 victories. Proves the first half of the season was ruined by injuries and playing staff incapable of playing the style for physical and mental reasons outside the control of the manager.
Anything short of that and it's bye bye. He has his team back, shipped people off and he's had time to implement his style. This is where it turns around completely, or he's gone.
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I think the opposite. He should have just said Rashford was sick. He was given permission to go to Belfast. No issues. Yes a lie. But this implying Rashford fkd up is a bad management strategy in modern football. All it does is make the player go to War because they are being fkd by the media. It should have been settled in house privately.
If ETH had a close bond with the players this wouldn't be an issue. Like this. Rashford goes to his office.
'Rashy. You pulled a sicky. Huh huh.,. Well I can't say I approve but I get everyone fks up. You know I have to discipline you right?'
'Sorry boss. I know I fkd up'
'You know you are a great player and I think a lot about you. I need you in my team. But you need to concentrate on your football and be professional. Especially since our form is so bad. Can you do that. No more issues please'
'Yes boss'
Ok maybe this has taken place several times. Like with Sancho then he just gives up and drops them in it with the media. But still I think he should just praise and defend the team and sort it internally. Don't get me wrong I think ETH is right to demand standards and discipline. I just think his media strategy is all wrong.
Teams doesn't go from half a season of mid table/relegation level performances to title winning form (which he'd need to get top 4). He's surely done.