Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Sarni]

isn’t the 7-0 an anomaly? Like quite clearly an anomaly.

Liverpool scored 7 that day from an xG of 2.8, so quite clearly on a normal day it would have been a 3-0/4-0. I'm not actually sure it makes much of a difference though.

The issues that led to that loss are still here and will inevitably lead to more spankings. It may not be 7-0 because not many teams actually try past 3rd/4th goal, e.g. City could have easily scored more against us at Old Trafford this year but didn't bother coming out of 2nd gear after they got their second goal, or sometimes you will just come across a team that's extremely wasteful like Villa were last week or Newcastle were the last two times we went to St James Park.

If you expose yourself to 18-20 shots a game, inevitably you will be spanked every now and then.

There has been a visible improvement in our offensive play though which has to be said. We are still appalling in midfield and possibly the worst team in the league at controlling the game, but we have got much better at creating over the last 4-5 weeks, largely down to Garnacho/Hojlund. Also, the way we create chances out of nowhere now makes it likely that we will win quite a few games against the run of play, though I'm not sure as a United fan you want to be winning too many games in that fashion. A couple of times per season, maybe.

 

[CM]

No top team has gone there and had it easy.

That wasn't the point though, was it? We were 2 goals ahead after 10 minutes, any self respecting team or coach should be able to control a situation like that.

Take a broader view, almost every match we participate in becomes a basketball game and it's reflected in our goal difference. Nobody else in the top 6 is battling to keep theirs in the positive numbers. We consistently make hard work of matches we're on top in. We'd be level on points with Spurs already if we didn't drop points to them a few weeks ago in such sloppy circumstances. It's also the reason we finished bottom of our Champions League group.

 

[CM]

I don't think it's fair to question him to the level many posters are, because he hasn't built his team.

He's been working as head of recruitment out of a lack of alternatives more than anything else. I disagree with this narrative peddled by those who want him out that he wants sole control and he's overriding our targets with nonsense ones of his own. The transfers are from him, but it's out of no other alternative given the incompetence of who he is with.

He wants support, he wants structure and he wants to be integrated within that - that's obvious from what he's said and from the fact that he operated successfully with overmars & vds at Ajax. However here he's worked under higherups who essentially dont know if they have a job for the next month since October last year.

Casemiro isn't exactly a scout pick up and obviously wasn't even a Ten Hag choice per say. Eriksen was opportunistic on a free, and then the rest of it is just an amalgamation of bargain basement signings or panic deals - with Onana Hojlund Antony and Mount being the big ticket items.


The result of the above is a squad that only has 1/3rd or maybe 1/2 players capable of playing a fast direct style that Ten Hag is trying to implement. For example, I don't think Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay suit his style. Casemiro is too old, Shaw is a crock and of course Licha has been injured. Hojlund and Garnacho meanwhile are projects which will take time to grow and develop - he has mentioned the club took a view to focus on them rather than go for ready made talent in the summer specifically due to FFP.

The one thing I really blame Ten Hag for is Antony, and it's incredibly frustrating. But I think every manager is capable of big money mistakes. Heck even Mount was adored by the higher ups at United and they panicked because they were worried about Arsenal or Liverpool getting him.

I believe has a style that would work but it needs more technical prowess and more fitness in the middle to operate. Casemiro needs moving on, we need more full backs and we need another striker. It was well briefed that he needed Hojlund + one more, but it wasn't given for FFP reasons. And he's long wanted a fullback, and only has Malacia as a squad option, also sadly hampered by injury.

These are just excuses for a manager who is in over his head. I'm most interested in what happens on the pitch. We haven't played well for any part of this season and we're in February. That's damning.

The fact that his record on recruitment is also bad only serves to make the decision easier. Ten Hag will ride it out until the end of the season but we've seen enough evidence to suggest he simply isn't interested in controlling football matches. It has cost us too many times already and if we actually want to compete with City, Arsenal, Liverpool and the like, we have to make a change.

 

[Sarni]

That wasn't the point though, was it? We were 2 goals ahead after 10 minutes, any self respecting team or coach should be able to control a situation like that.

Take a broader view, almost every match we participate in becomes a basketball game and it's reflected in our goal difference. Nobody else in the top 6 is battling to keep theirs in the positive numbers. We consistently make hard work of matches we're on top in. We'd be level on points with Spurs already if we didn't drop points to them a few weeks ago in such sloppy circumstances. It's also the reason we finished bottom of our Champions League group.

Luton are a tough, compact team that make it hard for their opposition, but the way they made it hard for Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and City was very different from yesterday. They had 6 shots and 33% possession in their 4-3 loss v Arsenal, scored 3 goals from 4 shots. 35% possession and 4 shots, 2 on target vs City. 26% possession, 8 shots (5 on target) vs Liverpool. They made it closer vs Spurs because they were playing 11 v 10 for 45 minutes (still lost though).

It has to be said though, that a) we are definitely not trying to dominate games and ETH has been quite clear about that in the past, b) Luton were 2 down after 7 minutes hence needed the ball more, unlike the games quoted above where they weren't trailing in any of them until late on. I still doubt any of the teams mentioned would have allowed 60% possession and 22 shots but circumstances are very different.

 

[Sarni]

These are just excuses for a manager who is in over his head. I'm most interested in what happens on the pitch. We haven't played well for any part of this season and we're in February. That's damning.

The fact that his record on recruitment is also bad only serves to make the decision easier. Ten Hag will ride it out until the end of the season but we've seen enough evidence to suggest he simply isn't interested in controlling football matches. It has cost us too many times already and if we actually want to compete with City, Arsenal, Liverpool and the like, we have to make a change.

It is very unlikely that he will go anywhere before May 2025 IMO. He's as safe as it gets, regardless of results. Even if we fail to finish top 5 this year and struggle at the start of next season, I think we will persist with him.

 

[DJ Jeff]

It is very unlikely that he will go anywhere before May 2025 IMO. He's as safe as it gets, regardless of results.

I disagree. I could easily see him being gone in the summer if his luck with recent results runs out and starts to reflect actual performances. This is the most atrocious season of performances I've ever seen from United, and yes I include Moyes, Ole's final season and LVG second season in that.

 

[VP89]

These are just excuses for a manager who is in over his head. I'm most interested in what happens on the pitch. We haven't played well for any part of this season and we're in February. That's damning.

The fact that his record on recruitment is also bad only serves to make the decision easier. Ten Hag will ride it out until the end of the season but we've seen enough evidence to suggest he simply isn't interested in controlling football matches. It has cost us too many times already and if we actually want to compete with City, Arsenal, Liverpool and the like, we have to make a change.

That's a bit of a lazy rebuttal, no offence. Firstly, your point in bold makes no sense given he's not head of recruitment.
But to the wider post, any manager operating under no structure, where the head scouts are sacked, the CEO is a walking circus and the DoF a complete novice - would struggle massively in the transfer market.

Proper recruitment is absolutely vital in building a team that needs to play a specific style. Look at Liverpool and City, but more accurately look at Arsenal. Early doors their recruitment was atrocious, and it reflected in a few really bad years for Arteta. Then they started recruiting more cleverly and had a lot more hits than flops, which helped Arteta implement the style he knew he was capable of delivering under the right squad.

Ten Hag is just making things work and winning games as he can until he gets that structure. We should also consider alternatives when we talk of Ten Hag's worth and there's not a single manager available I can think of that can be stone cold value over him without any doubts.

 

[cyberman]

I disagree. I could easily see him being gone in the summer if his luck with recent results runs out and starts to reflect actual performances. This is the most atrocious season of performances I've ever seen from United, and yes I include Moyes, Ole's final season and LVG second season in that.

It’s not luck. We’ve scored 18 goals in 6 matches so far in 2024 and it should be 21/22 if we didn’t miss so many easy chances
You don’t score so many goals and be lucky to win games.

 

[CM]

Luton are a tough, compact team that make it hard for their opposition, but the way they made it hard for Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and City was very different from yesterday. They had 6 shots and 33% possession in their 4-3 loss v Arsenal, scored 3 goals from 4 shots. 35% possession and 4 shots, 2 on target vs City. 26% possession, 8 shots (5 on target) vs Liverpool. They made it closer vs Spurs because they were playing 11 v 10 for 45 minutes (still lost though).

It has to be said though, that a) we are definitely not trying to dominate games and ETH has been quite clear about that in the past, b) Luton were 2 down after 7 minutes hence needed the ball more, unlike the games quoted above where they weren't trailing in any of them until late on. I still doubt any of the teams mentioned would have allowed 60% possession and 22 shots but circumstances are very different.

My issue isn't so much with them having the ball but the areas we're letting them have the ball. They created far too many chances and could've easily come away from the match yesterday with a point. Luton ended the match with more shots than we did, and we're letting teams do this to us regularly.

It is very unlikely that he will go anywhere before May 2025 IMO. He's as safe as it gets, regardless of results. Even if we fail to finish top 5 this year and struggle at the start of next season, I think we will persist with him.

I don't know about that. He should be auditioning for his own job under new ownership. He might well stay for another season but it's definitely not outside the realms of possibility that we bring somebody else in.

 

[uwotm8]

I do not want ETH sacked. But we should all face the fact that was a poor display of football. Luton is a horrible place to play but they deserved to at least draw that.

I think ETH should be rotating Amrabat and Eriksen into the team to provide some stability and just hope he gets through the season into the top 5.

His transfers have been shockingly bad. But I think with the right support over summer we can have a squad comfortably achieving top 3 next season.

There are a still positives to take from this run and it’s not the right move to sack him (yet)

 

[Berbaclass]

I think we can all admit that we are not playing at our best or to our full potential. I understand that right now though ETH needs one thing only, results. It's all well and good playing pretty football but at the moment that probably gets him sacked. I understand his pragmatic approach and think it's fine that he's willing to be flexible in order to achieve results.

That was a tough place to go yesterday which is being completely glossed over. Probably their biggest game of the season to have Manchester United rock up so of course they will be up for it. Remember when we went to Turf Moore when Burnley came up under Owen Coyle and Robbie Blake's goal beat us? These types of games are not easy at all...

 

[Oranges038]

That wasn't the point though, was it? We were 2 goals ahead after 10 minutes, any self respecting team or coach should be able to control a situation like that.

Take a broader view, almost every match we participate in becomes a basketball game and it's reflected in our goal difference. Nobody else in the top 6 is battling to keep theirs in the positive numbers. We consistently make hard work of matches we're on top in. We'd be level on points with Spurs already if we didn't drop points to them a few weeks ago in such sloppy circumstances. It's also the reason we finished bottom of our Champions League group.

At Luton. Arsenal went ahead twice and still had to come from behind and win. City came from behind to win. Liverpool came from behind to draw.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I don't think it's fair to question him to the level many posters are, because he hasn't built his team.

He's been working as head of recruitment out of a lack of alternatives more than anything else. I disagree with this narrative peddled by those who want him out that he wants sole control and he's overriding our targets with nonsense ones of his own. The transfers are from him, but it's out of no other alternative given the incompetence of who he is with.

He wants support, he wants structure and he wants to be integrated within that - that's obvious from what he's said and from the fact that he operated successfully with overmars & vds at Ajax. However here he's worked under higherups who essentially dont know if they have a job for the next month since October last year.

Casemiro isn't exactly a scout pick up and obviously wasn't even a Ten Hag choice per say. Eriksen was opportunistic on a free, and then the rest of it is just an amalgamation of bargain basement signings or panic deals - with Onana Hojlund Antony and Mount being the big ticket items.


The result of the above is a squad that only has 1/3rd or maybe 1/2 players capable of playing a fast direct style that Ten Hag is trying to implement. For example, I don't think Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay suit his style. Casemiro is too old, Shaw is a crock and of course Licha has been injured. Hojlund and Garnacho meanwhile are projects which will take time to grow and develop - he has mentioned the club took a view to focus on them rather than go for ready made talent in the summer specifically due to FFP.

The one thing I really blame Ten Hag for is Antony, and it's incredibly frustrating. But I think every manager is capable of big money mistakes. Heck even Mount was adored by the higher ups at United and they panicked because they were worried about Arsenal or Liverpool getting him.

I believe has a style that would work but it needs more technical prowess and more fitness in the middle to operate. Casemiro needs moving on, we need more full backs and we need another striker. It was well briefed that he needed Hojlund + one more, but it wasn't given for FFP reasons. And he's long wanted a fullback, and only has Malacia as a squad option, also sadly hampered by injury.

Anthony was a bad signing alright, no getting around that, but ETH isnt the first manager to choose a bad one. The issue for United is that we arent well run and cant really affr

Liverpool scored 7 that day from an xG of 2.8, so quite clearly on a normal day it would have been a 3-0/4-0. I'm not actually sure it makes much of a difference though.

The issues that led to that loss are still here and will inevitably lead to more spankings. It may not be 7-0 because not many teams actually try past 3rd/4th goal, e.g. City could have easily scored more against us at Old Trafford this year but didn't bother coming out of 2nd gear after they got their second goal, or sometimes you will just come across a team that's extremely wasteful like Villa were last week or Newcastle were the last two times we went to St James Park.

If you expose yourself to 18-20 shots a game, inevitably you will be spanked every now and then.

There has been a visible improvement in our offensive play though which has to be said. We are still appalling in midfield and possibly the worst team in the league at controlling the game, but we have got much better at creating over the last 4-5 weeks, largely down to Garnacho/Hojlund. Also, the way we create chances out of nowhere now makes it likely that we will win quite a few games against the run of play, though I'm not sure as a United fan you want to be winning too many games in that fashion.

We are in a funny spot for me. Right now winning is more important than performances. Really is no point in playing well and drawing , we have to win because we fell so far behind.

So is our football kind of chaotic for a number of reasons but from a tactics POV it’s a real all or nothing strategy focusing on winning over building a solid football system? Well our win/loss record suggests this may be it but why can’t you do both?

If I am giving ETH the benefit of the doubt I’m thinking that he’s been firefighting all season. But if I’m judging him on a higher standard I’m asking why we still don’t really play good football for more than a few minutes or a half. Fair question, can’t answer it. So I choose to write him off as a failure or wonder/believe things may improve as team comes back to full fitness and maybe with the ownership clearer there will be less drama , more clarity and more positivity.

Minute 15-45 in Fulham game was awful. We will get mauled in other games playing like that, sure didn’t bournmouth do us at home when we were playing like that?. If that’s the future of ETH football, that’s not gonna work. But that’s happened a lot , even before ETH was here, that suggests that it’s a problem multiple managers have struggled to address.

I look at Rashford and wonder if he’s better moving on as he has looked troubled. Not blaming him and don’t blame ETH but that’s our best forward being out of form all season.

I hear the arguments about Bruno. Maybe he won’t suit what ETH wants , but there are so many other things that needed to be done Bruno and Rashford were not priorities. I wonder if Bruno left (and mount actually was his replacement) could that work like when Ruud left and we replaced him with Saha. You get a more functional , well rounded forward line that isn’t “moment fc” where Bruno finds a great pass or scores a goal.

The truth is that I don’t know how much ETH is part of the Problem. I’m not even good at tactical stuff, I’m placing my trust in INEOs cause I feel that they, more than any manager we hire, are more important for the future of the club.

I wouldn’t be happy if they sacked ETH now for an interim but I’d try to trust they have a plan.

 

[CM]

That's a bit of a lazy rebuttal, no offence. Firstly, your point in bold makes no sense given he's not head of recruitment.
But to the wider post, any manager operating under no structure, where the head scouts are sacked, the CEO is a walking circus and the DoF a complete novice - would struggle massively in the transfer market.

Proper recruitment is absolutely vital in building a team that needs to play a specific style. Look at Liverpool and City, but more accurately look at Arsenal. Early doors their recruitment was atrocious, and it reflected in a few really bad years for Arteta. Then they started recruiting more cleverly and had a lot more hits than flops, which helped Arteta implement the style he knew he was capable of delivering under the right squad.

Ten Hag is just making things work and winning games as he can until he gets that structure. We should also consider alternatives when we talk of Ten Hag's worth and there's not a single manager available I can think of that can be stone cold value over him without any doubts.

If we're talking about lazy rebuttals, I was speaking about the fact he couldn't control a game of football against Luton and you responded to me with several paragraphs about recruitment!

Even if Ten Hag isn't a head of recruitment, he has contributed to us spending stupid sums of money on players who aren't good enough for the club. That isn't the primary reason I want him gone but he hasn't bought himself any goodwill by spending £150m on players like Antony and Mount.

I could accept pragmatism last season when he was working with the likes of Weghorst, and I did. This season was supposed to be different and we have actually been worse for large parts of the season. That is what I can't accept. I don't believe we can get to the standard of Arteta's Arsenal team under his management, never mind the standard bearers of Pep and Klopp at City and Liverpool. That is why I want him gone.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

It is very unlikely that he will go anywhere before May 2025 IMO. He's as safe as it gets, regardless of results. Even if we fail to finish top 5 this year and struggle at the start of next season, I think we will persist with him.

I don’t think that’s true at all.

I think INEOs are assessing him all the time.

 

[cyberman]

My issue isn't so much with them having the ball but the areas we're letting them have the ball. They created far too many chances and could've easily come away from the match yesterday with a point. Luton ended the match with more shots than we did, and we're letting teams do this to us regularly.


I don't know about that. He should be auditioning for his own job under new ownership. He might well stay for another season but it's definitely not outside the realms of possibility that we bring somebody else in.

What chances did they create? If anybody was lucky it was Luton in not conceding 5

 

[CM]

At Luton. Arsenal went ahead twice and still had to come from behind and win. City came from behind to win. Liverpool came from behind to draw.

This approach isn't unique to Luton though, is it? It's happening to us on a regular basis.

Those teams also grew into the game whereas we had a 2 goal headstart after 10 minutes. It should be a lot easier to control a game under those circumstances.

 

[DJ_21]

Some of the criticism is embarrassing. We know that he can be successful when he’s got the right team above him. He’s mentioned time and time again about having a structure, about having a style of play and signing players that fit that style of play… he wanted FDJ and got Casemiro… are they similar players? No there complete different players. He mentioned after the Luton game that he was unhappy and we are not where we want to be yet. He wants his players to control games, he wants his players to score more goals. He’s doing the best he can in the situation we’re in. He’s turned it around and we’re now unbeaten in 7. Massive improvement. Everyone knows we’re not the team he wants yet… and we won’t be unless we’re ruthless and get rid of players like Rashford who can’t be bothered in 50% of the games he plays. We need a squad full of Hojlunds and Garnachos. Hungry players who run there socks of.

 

[Borys]

Liverpool scored 7 that day from an xG of 2.8, so quite clearly on a normal day it would have been a 3-0/4-0. I'm not actually sure it makes much of a difference though.

The issues that led to that loss are still here and will inevitably lead to more spankings. It may not be 7-0 because not many teams actually try past 3rd/4th goal, e.g. City could have easily scored more against us at Old Trafford this year but didn't bother coming out of 2nd gear after they got their second goal, or sometimes you will just come across a team that's extremely wasteful like Villa were last week or Newcastle were the last two times we went to St James Park.

If you expose yourself to 18-20 shots a game, inevitably you will be spanked every now and then.

There has been a visible improvement in our offensive play though which has to be said. We are still appalling in midfield and possibly the worst team in the league at controlling the game, but we have got much better at creating over the last 4-5 weeks, largely down to Garnacho/Hojlund. Also, the way we create chances out of nowhere now makes it likely that we will win quite a few games against the run of play, though I'm not sure as a United fan you want to be winning too many games in that fashion. A couple of times per season, maybe.

That is a fair assessment. I also believe our biggest improvement was moving Garnacho to the right, what frankly is another "stumble upon" solution (I don't think I have seen Garnacho ever on the right, he was moved there because fans were sick of Antony).

Let's face it, there are very few tactical nuances in our game, it's terrible football, but if you have better players you are expected to win games - and this is happening now. The fact we're BARELY winning those games and honestly with some bit of luck in recent games is a different matter. I am surprised how many people are willing to ignore the shite football we play under a manager that came with a reputation of being a good coach.

 

[VP89]

If we're talking about lazy rebuttals, I was speaking about the fact he couldn't control a game of football against Luton and you responded to me with several paragraphs about recruitment!

Ha fair, probably the wrong post to pick up that debate from.

Even if Ten Hag isn't a head of recruitment, he has contributed to us spending stupid sums of money on players who aren't good enough for the club. That isn't the primary reason I want him gone but he hasn't bought himself any goodwill by spending £150m on players like Antony and Mount.

Mount was a club pursuit as much as a Ten Hag one - Murtough/Arnold panicked he'd go to a rival and just got him in quickly according to Athletic. Not sure blaming Ten Hag for that is fair. Antony I've addressed.

I could accept pragmatism last season when he was working with the likes of Weghorst, and I did. This season was supposed to be different and we have actually been worse for large parts of the season. That is what I can't accept. I don't believe we can get to the standard of Arteta's Arsenal team under his management, never mind the standard bearers of Pep and Klopp at City and Liverpool. That is why I want him gone.

Well this season is actually a lot worse for Ten Hag, given his defence was ravaged by injury for the entire first half of the season. Onana is probably net even on DDG for different reasons and Hojlund is a kid who needed a lot of time to get going. Despite all of this, I don't think he's going to have a worse season than what Arteta had in his first few, so it's a bit inconsistent for you to think he can't manage up to Areta's standards by another couple of seasons.

 

[Oranges038]

This approach isn't unique to Luton though, is it? It's happening to us on a regular basis.

Those teams also grew into the game whereas we had a 2 goal headstart after 10 minutes. It should be a lot easier to control a game under those circumstances.

Should have been 4 up before they got a sniff, which is something that happens quite regularly, this team just don't put teams away when they have the chance.

 

[crossy1686]

We're winning games but the performances really aren't there. We have good spells in games but we're never in control and most games devolve into a basketball game of end to end, which suggests the results aren't sustainable and you definitely can't win big trophies playing this way. Once you come up against an organised team and you get tore a new one, which is what we saw in the CL. You can say we'll be better with better players but you're relying on world class players doing world class things constantly when you play this way, and even the best will be exposed at times when you play this exposed because you're trying to create overloads at the top end of the pitch.

If this was the way to play football, or the way to win big trophies then other teams would be playing this way also. You look at other teams in the PL like City, Liverpool, Arsenal, even Brighton and Villa, have more control in games than we do. Yesterday was a great example when we were 2-0 up and didn't strangle the life out of the game by just keeping the ball. Any other team with CL ambitions would have never ceded control of the game like we did from that position.

I think due to the performances Ten Hag will ultimately get the sack and we'll hire a manager that will focus on improving the performances because the results will follow once you play better than we are.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I think we can all admit that we are not playing at our best or to our full potential. I understand that right now though ETH needs one thing only, results. It's all well and good playing pretty football but at the moment that probably gets him sacked. I understand his pragmatic approach and think it's fine that he's willing to be flexible in order to achieve results.

That was a tough place to go yesterday which is being completely glossed over. Probably their biggest game of the season to have Manchester United rock up so of course they will be up for it. Remember when we went to Turf Moore when Burnley came up under Owen Coyle and Robbie Blake's goal beat us? These types of games are not easy at all...

The season we won the league when Cantona came back from suspension, we won a huge amount of our games 1-0 or by one goal in the second half of the season , with cantona getting most of them.

“So you are saying ETH is doing a good job like Ferguson did when we won a league?”. No I’m not.

Im saying at this part of the season , winning is all that matters.I watched Liverpool v Brentford. They looked very shaky until they scored. I expect to see pool and arsenal to start looking less and less convincing , regardless of opposition, the closer it gets to the end of the season. Now isn’t the time for United to work on a pattern of play, we just need to keep winning.

Pressure changes how you play. So does this mean United should not be able to play decent football? No, but we do play great football sometimes but not enough.

I feel we see glimpses of ETH footfall, and it looks great, but for some reason our players can’t maintain the level. Then there’s a fair point that ETH needs to learn to shift things up. I feel he did good at HT yesterday and we actually controlled the second half in terms of chances created.

Be concerned when you are not creating chances, we are creating loads. And they aren’t just pop shots like the teams “who had the most amount of shots”, they are chances our players should really score.

 

[Borys]

Some of the criticism is embarrassing. We know that he can be successful when he’s got the right team above him. He’s mentioned time and time again about having a structure, about having a style of play and signing players that fit that style of play… he wanted FDJ and got Casemiro… are they similar players? No there complete different players. He mentioned after the Luton game that he was unhappy and we are not where we want to be yet. He wants his players to control games, he wants his players to score more goals. He’s doing the best he can in the situation we’re in. He’s turned it around and we’re now unbeaten in 7. Massive improvement. Everyone knows we’re not the team he wants yet… and we won’t be unless we’re ruthless and get rid of players like Rashford who can’t be bothered in 50% of the games he plays. We need a squad full of Hojlunds and Garnachos. Hungry players who run there socks of.

How ridiculous this sounds. You can play football without feckin frankie de jong in the team, and we still bang on how the club didn't give him the one and single player that would transform our football.

He wants his players to control games, he wants his players to score more goals. He’s doing the best he can in the situation we’re in. He’s turned it around and we’re now unbeaten in 7. Massive improvement. Everyone knows we’re not the team he wants yet… and we won’t be unless we’re ruthless and get rid of players like Rashford who can’t be bothered in 50% of the games he plays. We need a squad full of Hojlunds and Garnachos. Hungry players who run there socks of.

How did you come to that conclusion? Because everything ETH does suggests he's very happy to give away the possession, and even against Luton we are apparently forced to "soak" pressure because of Marinez missing and Shaw quasi-fit.

 

[DJ Jeff]

It’s not luck. We’ve scored 18 goals in 6 matches so far in 2024 and it should be 21/22 if we didn’t miss so many easy chances
You don’t score so many goals and be lucky to win games.

Yes and we're lucky we haven't conceded as many. We give up an insane amount of shots and chances game after game. This run is a lucky one.

 

[VP89]

How did you come to that conclusion? Because everything ETH does suggests he's very happy to give away the possession, and even against Luton we are apparently forced to "soak" pressure because of Marinez missing and Shaw quasi-fit.

Control doesn't mean just dominating the ball.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Some of the criticism is embarrassing. We know that he can be successful when he’s got the right team above him. He’s mentioned time and time again about having a structure, about having a style of play and signing players that fit that style of play… he wanted FDJ and got Casemiro… are they similar players? No there complete different players. He mentioned after the Luton game that he was unhappy and we are not where we want to be yet. He wants his players to control games, he wants his players to score more goals. He’s doing the best he can in the situation we’re in. He’s turned it around and we’re now unbeaten in 7. Massive improvement. Everyone knows we’re not the team he wants yet… and we won’t be unless we’re ruthless and get rid of players like Rashford who can’t be bothered in 50% of the games he plays. We need a squad full of Hojlunds and Garnachos. Hungry players who run there socks of.

Some of the defense of him is embarrassing. He wasted a whole summer chasing FDJ, he was never coming and so we panicked into Casimero. He has a veto and strong input on transfers so lets not pretend anyone was forced on him. Jury still out on whether FDJ could hack the PL, Rice was widely reported that summer to be open to a United move. ETH was desperate for Antony and allowed to get him for an insane fee, yet offers nothing in the PL, in fact he's a liability given how much he loses the ball. We sign Onana to play out from the back and against Luton we hoof it long. Spurs and Brighton play brave football from the back having spent a fraction of what we spent. The idea that a coach needs to have his own hand picked squad of 16 players before they can be judged. Criticising the manager doesnt make you a doom moonger, nor does blindly supporting him make you a top red.

 

[Berbaclass]

Yes and we're lucky we haven't conceded as many. We give up an insane amount of shots and chances game after game. This run is a lucky one.

The games is based on luck at times. Some things go for you and some dont...

 

[El Jefe]

isn’t the 7-0 an anomaly? Like quite clearly an anomaly.

Statistically it was an anomaly but my wider point is if this team is on the end of a hiding soon, no one should be surprised. The way we play guarantees a few hammerings a season and ETH has been good for that in his two seasons here.

 

[Wumminator]

How can his recruitment be said to be shockingly bad?

Do most of his signings not look decent!

 

[Berbaclass]

All that really matters is if INEOS and or Blanc/Ashworth rate him. If they do and feel they can work with him then that is good enough for me.

I don't want him sacked but I'm happy to go along with and trust the judgment of these guys.

Ashworth is a really good operator, no doubt in the initial conversations the subject of ETH will have been broached and he will have given his opinion.

The fact that the news came out yesterday that INEOS rate him is good enough for me.

 

[VP89]

Some of the defense of him is embarrassing. He wasted a whole summer chasing FDJ, he was never coming and so we panicked into Casimero. He has a veto and strong input on transfers so lets not pretend anyone was forced on him. Jury still out on whether FDJ could hack the PL, Rice was widely reported that summer to be open to a United move. ETH was desperate for Antony and allowed to get him for an insane fee, yet offers nothing in the PL, in fact he's a liability given how much he loses the ball. We sign Onana to play out from the back and against Luton we hoof it long. Spurs and Brighton play brave football from the back having spent a fraction of what we spent. The idea that a coach needs to have his own hand picked squad of 16 players before they can be judged. Criticising the manager doesnt make you a doom moonger, nor does blindly supporting him make you a top red.

You:
"He had a veto on Casemiro, lets not pretend he was forced".

Also
"he was desperate for Antony and allowed to get him on an insane fee!! "

^ Do you not see the hypocrisy? Vetos work both ways. He may not have been forced on Casemiro but he certainly didn't force Antony. There is a structural problem whereby the manager (could be anyone) did not have the right support and debate among targets. Heck the scouts didnt even have proper alternatives.

Also compare Onana's playing out from the back vs DDG's playing out from the back and tell me our style of build up and distribution from the GK hasn't changed.

As for Ang and De Zerbi love, fecking hell give over. There are a million reasons why these lazy comparisons are so flawed. Lets not pretend De Zerbi isn't partial to an open team flooding goals now and again, and Ang is barely proven in the league. What he's done isn't even more impressive than Rogers at Leicester in his 1st year for fecksake.

 

[Berbaclass]

How can his recruitment be said to be shockingly bad?

Do most of his signings not look decent!

Excluding loans and free transfers I think he's had a decent hit rate so far.

I think Mount will be a good player eventually but obviously difficult to argue that right now.

 

[cyberman]

Yes and we're lucky we haven't conceded as many. We give up an insane amount of shots and chances game after game. This run is a lucky one.

I disagree completely. If anything our defending has become more resilient.
Everybody complained about our away record and rightly so. In our last 11 games we’ve played 3 at home. This isn’t an easy run we’re on and our balance within the team is off but we are creating far more than the opposition are since we’ve rejigged the front 3. You don’t average 3 goals a game and not win a lot more than you draw / lose.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Control doesn't mean just dominating the ball.

No but it means dominating the shape of the game and having a clear structure. You could play a bit like Ole and Mou to try and have a really strong defense and rapier breaks. At the moment we charge forward and lose ball high up with players committed, and then are wide open as our defense is too deep and oppo has acres of free space. Our matches are chaos, zero control of anything

 

[CM]

Should have been 4 up before they got a sniff, which is something that happens quite regularly, this team just don't put teams away when they have the chance.

It's a combination of both, which again, doesn't reflect well on the coach.

 

[sepulturite]

Anyone posting comments like fraud is fecking clueless at any time.

I actually think the mods should start handing out warnings to posters who use the term fraud, it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

 

[Borys]

Control doesn't mean just dominating the ball.

Correct, and going back to my question, how does anybody suggest ETH has any real intent to control games? Playing counter attacking game is good if you score 2 goals inside first 10 minutes, but even then we conceded far too many chances/shots so we were not really in control over anything.

We play "coin flip" football style.

 

[Buster15]

How can his recruitment be said to be shockingly bad?

Do most of his signings not look decent!

Yes they are starting to look good.
We need to remember that many players when they first come to OT struggle to make an immediate impact. Zlatan aside.
Of course Antony has been very poor and I am in 2 minds as to whether he is capable of coming good.
Hopefully he will.

 

[sepulturite]

Pathetic couple of posts. We want the club to succeed and understand you don't do that scraping wins at Luton, whilst constantly giving the ball away and giving the opposing. Idiot like you guys are part of the reason we are so shit. The next shiny new (but inevitably poor value) signing and next new manager for the fan boys to pin their colours to and its all great. Its not. INEOS building a football structure, it will take time and there will be mistakes, but its how we compete. Stop wasting money on stupid signings like Antony, Casimero and the rest. I want us to win a match as much as the next person. But then don't whine if City or Liverpool hammer us at the next opportunity. We are miles away from these guys, despite £400m and 18 months of the genuius 'philosophy'. Get some perspective.

The only pathetic posts are yours, you are so relentlessly miserable it's actually unfathomable, how do you even get up in the morning?