The argument being made is one bad season in a management career of 6-7 years isn't the be all and end all in judging pedigree.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Considering that you seem to consider last season a great season by all standards and Ten Hag working wonders, to what degree were the players responsible for any of that? And if so, to what degree are they responsible for this seasons under performance also? If there’s a surprise that the manager performed so well in a league he knew little about then surely the players did most of the work for him?
Also, there’s a point being glossed over in last years ‘brilliant season’. We didn’t win away to any top 9 club in the entire season, including some absolute hammerings. This season that extended to most clubs in the PL. It’s almost like someone got worked out and doesn’t know how to change their approach…
Fred was sold at the right time; it is an example of how we should handle transfers. Sell them before they deteriorate because of age.
Ten Hag was told he would have two left backs available in January by the medical staff. It is silly to blame this on him.
We can‘t play any strategy with this squad except sitting in a low block and countering. 10Hag is trying to build a team that can press high, build out the back and attack with speed.
What are your ideas of making better use of the squad? Instead of just complaining.
I think next season we should strengthen the squad with players who can defend higher up the pitch, are brave and good on the ball.
The players were a big part of the steps forward for last season. But some key players, namely casemiro and Eriksen had injuries or downward trends in form in that same campaign. They also happen to be the players whos legs are naturally going.
Then you have players like Lindelof who hasn't really been able to string together games post surgery, or martial, licha and Shaw who essentially haven't really played this campaign.
I dont think players have let Ten Hag down this season, barring one (Rashford). This season is a mix of concentrated injuries, managerial failings for tactics and structural uncertainty causing a host of issues behind the scenes.
Why would we judge his suitability as a United manager on what he did under totally different circumstances at other clubs?
And a bit of luck. DDG bailed us out on multiple occasions despite his propensity to making basic errors
Been ETH in. But if there was either a “not bothered” or “sack if there’s a better alternative”. Then I’d change.
Main issue is, not saying ETH is not an issue, but we really need to get rid of players like Rashford etc. Otherwise the next manager will have the same dilemma.
Edit: just seen it’s a sack now or wait until after cup final vote.
He got us to the final, very little chance of CL. Let him finish the season regardless.
Main issue is, not saying ETH is not an issue, but we really need to get rid of players like Rashford etc. Otherwise the next manager will have the same dilemma.
Edit: just seen it’s a sack now or wait until after cup final vote.
He got us to the final, very little chance of CL. Let him finish the season regardless.
Why?
After 1-2 seasons you'll know if the guy isn't working out. You can't say we're giving a guy 5 years regardless of results and performance.
What happens if you're hovering above the relegation zone in year 3, after spending £400-500m?
Are fans from other clubs voting again who want to keep Ten Hag? The yes has gone up to 39% already, I don’t believe that among United fans.
Where did this info come from?
On the other hand, how many of them were genuinely good seasons? That's a serious question by the way, as I'm not sure how each of his Ajax seasons would actually be rated.
A fairly quick look into it::
17/18 - Joined Ajax halfway through the season, they improved a little but not enough to win the Eredivisie. Neutral season.
18/19 - Won the Eredivisie and got to the semi's of the CL. Great season.
19/20 - Didn't get out of their CL group and got knocked out of the Europa early. Was only on top of the Eredivisie on goal difference at the time the season was cancelled due to Covid. I'd say that was a bad season considering Ajax's advantages in the league.
20/21 - Dominated the Eredivisie, but got knocked out of the Europa at the quarters. Good season.
21/22 - Won the Eredivisie by two points, started the CL well by winning all their group games but then got knocked out by Benfica in the next round. Good season if we're being kind.
22/23 - Joined Man Utd and finished third in the league but was on the end of a few embarrassing scorelines and didn't win an away match against any remotely decent team. Won the League Cup, got to the final of the FA Cup, lost in the quarters of the Europa. Good season, certainly not 'very good'.
23/24 - Atrocious season, will very likely go down as Utd's worst in PL history.
So while he's been mostly good, it's not like he's been clear-cut great or even good up until now.
If there are any Ajax fans reading this, I would be interested to know if they'd rate those seasons similarly to how I have.
Where the sun don't shine!
You've entered the debate half way and haven't seen my original point.
That last season at Ajax? Didn't he lose the cup final against PSV?
And we’re averaging 2.3 goals per game since January… an upward trend.
https://x.com/Jayling77/status/1784535496732844048
This one is worse.
Pretty sure it was an Athletic article or something similar.
Ten Hag was given news by our medical team that both Shaw and Malacia would be available for United in January, so with three left backs on the books, he sent Reguilon back.
Then one of our long term medical staff was fired not long after this was meant to have happened.
Liverpool?
Close enough.
Ten Hag has the dubious distinction of being the odds on favorite to leave/be sacked the soonest out of all PL managers.
6-1
https://bookies.com/uk/news/next-pr...cked-pochettino-under-fire-after-arsenal-loss
I wonder if it’s going to be when we are officially out of the CL places / top 4?
6-1
https://bookies.com/uk/news/next-pr...cked-pochettino-under-fire-after-arsenal-loss
I wonder if it’s going to be when we are officially out of the CL places / top 4?
Encouraging, but I have my doubts....especially given how ETH seems to have an uncanny ability deliver an unexpected result when people least expect it (thinking of wins against last year's top 4 and the Liverpool FA Cup this year). Therefore if we get a result against Arsenal, he will at a minimum get to remain until the end of this season.
There is also a downward trend in goals conceded since January, which helps explain why United's ppg in the league has only marginally improved since then (1.55 to 1.64).
We’re having to sacrifice some defensive stability to make the long term attacking gain (given we’ve had less injuries in the front line).
It’s also a result of the continued injuries in the back line.
For example we now have:
Shaw
Martinez
Malacia
Evans
Lindelof
Varane
Kwambala
All out injured at the same time now.
So, we’ve been mathematically eliminated from top 4, yes? We have 54 pts, AstonVilla 67. 4 matches remaining, unless we are expecting to get a 5th CL spot.
‘I suppose if we let him go now, we pay more — but not much more in compensation, £1.2m for the rest of this season (5 matches) and 6.75m for next season. If we win the FA cup final, we earn 2m, if we lose, 1m.
‘The financial hit on where we finish in the league is pretty eye-popping. So by not finishing in the top 4 and making the CL spots, we lose out on roughly 65m-80m in CL revenue. Plus, by finishing 6th or 7th in the league, we’ll make 10m-25m less than the top 4.
On the low end of the range, that’s 75m in revenue lost and at the high end 105m.
Thus, our projected net spend this summer is 100m whereas last summer was 200m.
I don’t think the Ten Hag in crew really understand how damaging it is to finish out of the CL spots and further down the table.
Even if true seems like a risk to bank on a guy who's just had two operations and Shaw who's had a shit time with injuries this season.
Ah from Ten Hag himself it makes sense now. It wouldn't have been his fault of course.
Also what are you expecting here? Are you expecting the medical team to take the press conference and say “yeah we said that”.
Like why can you not just accept his word on this?
Has Noel Gallagher gave his son the same haircut as him 
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There's far too much of this.
CL quali isn't officially off the cards until the next round of European ties happen. Then any German team winning I think confirms they get the extra spot.
Fair enough mate, I’ll admit I’m wrong there.
From a press conference.
He does but they might not be wrong!
Honestly, I think that if that mattered, we'd probably have signed a forward on loan in January. It seems as though we're too close to the PSR limit for a payout, even a reduced one.
Besides, it's better for INEOS if their first decisive move to affect the playing squad comes after this season is done. They don't want to start making a decision that could make things even worse. And yes, they can get worse, or that associate themselves with the stink of the season gone. If you want a date for the calendar, July 1st is the one to look for by my best guess.
Fair play mate, I was expecting you to call me some names or something.
Im pretty concerned if Ten Hag doesn’t change his tactics, we might end up with a similar situation if we end up giving him another year.
And? We’re likely to end on far fewer points and GD, and most number of defeats in a PL season. The manager deserves to be sacked without questions just like Mourinho. I’m surprised there’s even a debate. We have evidently reduced the standards we aspire to from managers if we’re willing to tolerate the failures we’ve seen this season.
What I still find funny is I haven’t spoken to a United fan, face to face, that’s actually desperate for ETH to be let go. Most seem to think another season wouldn’t be the worse given where the club is at. I’m still at that point , wouldn’t complain if he was let go but understand there’s other reasons why we’d keep him.
Well what do you think of our style of play and performances since the 2023 League Cup final?
I can see the style of play, I think. I believe I can see what he's trying to do. When people say "what's the identity!?" I tend to think they didn't really look at what Ten Hag's career has actually been before he joined us, in a tactical sense. He's always been focused on transitions, he just happened to merge his ideas with Ajax to good effect. He's the least Dutch Dutchman of them all.Well what do you think of our style of play and performances since the 2023 League Cup final?
For me, he's trying to get us to play pretty much like Liverpool in Klopp's first ~3 seasons, but with creativity coming from the two 8/10s rather than the fullbacks, possibly because that's what's in the squad. He wants us to defend and attack ambitiously.
And I would say he's been far too ambitious this season. In fact I would say that in that final, we were too ambitious, and we'd have been handily beaten if Casemiro hadn't played out of his skin that day. Now, with nobody suited to it, he's not just doubling down on his ideal, he's bottoming out on it. He needs aggressive defenders who can move the ball up the park and cover space for this to work. They're all out. He needs a superhuman DM to handle defensive and attacking transitions on his own. He doesn't have one. He needs a clinical finisher to put away chances even after running half the length of the pitch to get on the end of them. He's off the boil.
Ten Hag needed a little too much before it all fell apart this season. That's the reason I think he'll probably end up gone. It's a shame because he could have been a success here, I feel, but either he came too early or Ratcliffe came too late.