Personally we need to give a manager time. We are in the position we are in by changing the manager far too quickly. Give ETH the time to evolve the team and see where it takes us.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
We’ve conceded 1 goal in 7 games (including Chelsea and Sociedad away, Spurs at home) and people are questioning him already 
absolutely mental.
absolutely mental.I don’t get this attitude to wanting to discuss United. You can discuss the manager and the team’s performances without it being a referendum on him keeping his job.We’ve conceded 1 goal in 7 games (including Chelsea and Sociedad away, Spurs at home) and people are questioning him already
It's because you're too far in the opposite direction. Your recent post history is constant criticism of the manager, as though that's our chief problem.
There is a humongous difference between an “elite” striker and Ronaldo’s current level. Even something in the middle would see us create far more in my opinion.
Here here
People downplay the squad because everyone agrees the squad was utter shite last season, and Sancho, Antony, Martial and Rashford, our best 4 attacking options, were all unavailable to play a full match today. Winning a match 1-0 without your top 4 attacking options against a team in a big 4 league is a good result.
Assertions like "we aren't scoring enough and it's all the manager's fault" is basically an argument for sacking the manager. That's why people respond to you like it's a referendum on the manager.
The manager is accountable for the performances of the team. There’s not really much room to manoeuvre if people are overly sensitive to any reflection on the team that highlights weaknesses.
Who do you think should be held accountable for our underwhelming attack so far this season, if not the manager? You can argue he’s not responsible by all means, but he’s ultimately the one who will be held to account to improve our performances in the final third.
You can like ETH, want him to succeed, yet still be underwhelmed by what we are doing in the final third. I would imagine the manager himself is underwhelmed. Surely he would have expected more goals so far and more chances created?
What specifically do you think ETH is doing wrong that's leading to a lack of goals?
I can wait for titles but I still think if we end up as bad as last season, it must be seen as a big failure.
A) Moaning about our squad is a little churlish. We have as good a squad in the league as anyone outside of City. Judging our players too negatively from under Rangnick is like judging Spurs’s under Nuno. Both terrible appointments in hindsight and the squads should perform a lot better under new, competent managers.
Sure, the manager will want to move on some players and bring in some new ones, but so will all of our rivals. There’s a lot more that can be got out of these players and we’ve seen many of them perform at a much higher level in their careers, and their ages would suggest their peaks could still be to come. I’m sure the manager believes that too.
B) You are projecting. I no more think ETH should be sacked than I thought Rashford should be released last season for having a poor season.
I don’t necessarily know. Football management isn’t a game of Football Manager on the PC where you click buttons and adjust sliders. It’s far more subtle than that. We’re confusing accountability and responsibility somewhat here. I’m not pretending there’s a series of simple steps ETH is failing to do to get to us to score four goals each week.
A couple of my observations would be that we continue to play a formation that doesn’t get the most out of our midfielders. I didn’t see us being fairly wedded to a 4-2-3-1 under ETH, but it seems we are again.
The 4-2-3-1 routinely pushes Bruno too far up the field and keeps Eriksen too deep, when both have the skillset to play a mixed role either side of Casemiro in a three-man mid, which would also benefit Fred and McT. Rashford and Sancho are also both players that would benefit from the greater support on the flanks in a 4-3-3, with a midfielder and full back behind them, as well as being narrower and close to the centre forward. Having Bruno in as a 10 crowds the centre of the pitch and forces them wider. Bruno’s a much better playing stepping forward with the ball with the game ahead of him, rather than receiving it in tight spaces, often with his back to goal.
Guardiola talks about KDB’s mastery of arriving in spaces, rather than permanently occupying then. Right now our setup crowds the final third, rather than encouraging players to attack and arrive in pockets of space. It’s only ever really Rashford who we see attacking empty space between channels or lines routinely.
I think something will have to give on the right-hand side too. I don’t see how having Antony, as an inverted winger, and Dalot, as an underlapping full-back, will blossom into a good partnership. Too often both players vacate the flank and make us extremely narrow. It’s going to limit us against the upcoming teams who will play in a deep block.
Isn't it very clear that we are doing much better than last season? In our 16 games since the opening 2 which were clearly a different situation, we've won 12 games, drawn 2 and lost 2. The feck are you on about
not to mention seeing our actual football on the pitch. The way we've played against other big sides.You seriously have to be a WUM to not see the painfully obvious improvement in us.
I've said it a few times that Ronaldo is genuinely the most useless striker in the premier league and wouldn't improve a single other premier league side. It's not an exaggeration.
But anyway, our squad is pretty good. That's why we've had great results and performances against other big teams, why aside from the opening 2 games of the season, we are 12-2-2 from the 16 games, why if we win our game in hand, we'll be tied for 3rd, etc. Takes time to develop attacking patterns more. Also you need the personnel to be suited to each other. You need them fit. You need them to play for each other, not for themselves. And then, finally, we also obviously have a few gaps. It's not a situation where we are playing like shit and claiming we need more players to get to a decent level. We are playing as the 3rd best side in the league already (and deservedly beat the 2nd best side). We need to fill our gaps with players who at least fit the system, and we need the system coached more, to step up. Takes time.
ETH can only do so much with the attacking resources he is given. Sometimes radical decisions can change a game. Unfortunately it failed today but this is far from a reflection of his management capabilities.
Anyone who is currently questioning the manager is not worth debating with. 1 goal conceded in the past 7 games. We are slowly moving from a leaky defense to a defense that can keep a clean sheet on a regular basis. Up front, we had to let go of Cavani, Greenwood and now we have a crocked Martial and a slow Ronaldo. We will score once we have a decent forward. Hopefully once Martial is back and if we get lucky in Jan.
That was a big reason why they were able to press us so much. Only pace was Garnacho and that's how we scored.
ETH got it wrong to begin with and then made it worse unbelievably. Haha.
I think we are starting to see the problems with our squad. With the midfield off the boil and attack injured...these last 2 games have me worried.
Against a Spanish team, no less!
I know we have a few injuries so could be that. But part of me wonders if he’s trying to find a way to accommodate Ronaldo, either from the board or maybe from his own accord if he thinks Ronaldo can covert more of the chances that we create.
People judging him harshly on today's performance when 2 players featured who should be nowhere near Prem relegation sides never mind Manchester United.
Ronaldo is simply awful now and VDB is a nothing footballer.
The performance wasn't great the past few games, but there's still plenty to be hopeful about.
The chance creation isn't great, but I'm sure it'll improve. We arrive in dangerous areas a fair bit, but we muck it up consistently with poor decision-making.
I'm sure in 3-4 months, we'll create a larger volume of chances in games.
But if Ronaldo continues playing, it'll be a long ride. He simply offers nothing.
Ronaldo is simply awful now and VDB is a nothing footballer.
The performance wasn't great the past few games, but there's still plenty to be hopeful about.
The chance creation isn't great, but I'm sure it'll improve. We arrive in dangerous areas a fair bit, but we muck it up consistently with poor decision-making.
I'm sure in 3-4 months, we'll create a larger volume of chances in games.
But if Ronaldo continues playing, it'll be a long ride. He simply offers nothing.
If I had to guess it would be the instructions were to use Ronaldo as a target man and ping balls for DVB and Garnacho to chase behind. Now you could say in that case use Bruno centrally and Elanga and Pellistri out wide for pace but I think he needed Donny to get up to speed as he’ll probably be replacing Bruno at the weekend; furthermore, while he is still young Elanga doesn’t seem to have the technical abilities EtH wants who so will most likely be relegated to defensive winger duties ala Dan James, and who the feck knows with Pellistri. I’m 100% convinced EtH wants a new striker, regardless of his play, which has been poor, Ronnie’s antics alone are not worth putting up with. Someone who is that obsessed to the point of practically control freak won’t put up with shit that undermines him
It's obvious to me it's the club management. In the last 10 yrs do you know how many legitimate top strikers have we bought? Other than Lukaku, no one else right? Cavani was too old. Martial was a young talent, who has failed and now maybe good enough but can't stay fit. So ETH has one striker who can't stay fit and one decent striker who obviously can't play every minute. And Ronaldo who to me feels like playing with 10 men. And over the last year we lost Cavani, Greenwood, Lingard. Replaced by Antony and Garnacho.
So yeah, majority of blame lies with the club for the attacking options we have.
Is this your tactical genius? Make fun of Ole all you want, but at least he knew how to chase a goal.
Yeah, Ole definitely knew how to leak goals so no wonder he knew how to chase a goal.
That was poor from ETH last night. He got the starting formation wrong. Bruno was useless on the right and Donny and Eriksen poor in the middle. In hindsight Fred, Rashford or Elanga would have been better options.
Then his first swtich with Rashford and Mctom was poor because of where those players were playing. Should have put Rashford on the left and Garnacho on the right.
With his second switch though we did look more threatening. I know lump it up to slabhead football is primitive but in desperate times I don't mind the attempt. The execution was still poor though.
We did win the game with a clean sheet but I'd give him a 5/10 rating for the game.
Then his first swtich with Rashford and Mctom was poor because of where those players were playing. Should have put Rashford on the left and Garnacho on the right.
With his second switch though we did look more threatening. I know lump it up to slabhead football is primitive but in desperate times I don't mind the attempt. The execution was still poor though.
We did win the game with a clean sheet but I'd give him a 5/10 rating for the game.
Has generally been spot on with his tactics,however he got it wrong with that change of formation. Hard to blame him for putting Maguire up front when no forwards on the bench.
One game is all it takes for the knives to come out? A game in which we continued our run of clean sheets? And won?
We won! He tried a new formation and desperate ideas like Maguire up front to just see if we could somehow get it over the line but it did not work and that's that.
Is this a joke?
Don’t ever compare ole to Ten Hag again. Thanks.Not his best game but still ended up winning and clean sheet. The group was decided against the other two teams and not this one.
No white text?
Yeah plastics will turn on him tonight and probably won't get any credit if he puts things right on Sunday which can happen. The best managers can get things wrong but worth remembering he was short of options tonight.
Trouble is he will forced to make do,so in other words Ronaldo & Rashford until May and like it
I really rate Bruno. Yes, he is sometimes too cavalier in his passing, he’s a bit of a shit, and mouthy. But he wants to win, and we need that. However, he is best played through the middle, and I’ll tell you why.
1. Bruno’s brilliance is his quick, defense splitting passing into space and his runs into the box. That’s what makes him special when he’s on form. On the wing, he’s too far forward to play those balls, and also, you’ve taken half the field away from him, so his options are limited. Also, he’s best arriving a bit behind the wingers when on the counter. We’ve seen this time and again over the last 3 seasons.
2. He’s a pretty sloppy defender. He tracks back okay, but he’s pretty low energy when closing down and providing support for the RB. You can hide these attributes when defending central because you are more or less defending space with a lot of help defenders On the wings you are defending players more than space and there isn’t a lot of help defenders. He does tend to poke at the ball, dive in, etc, which, again, is fine in the center but will cause a lot of problems on the wing.
3. He is excellent at roaming side to side and helping support wing play. Of all of our central midfielders, he is the best at this. Eriksen is damn good too, but typically supports the left and is usually deeper. When you play Bruno on the wing, the patterns of play become disjointed, there isn’t enough forward support. Donny is so objectively bad, no, wait, useless, in supporting wing play and the drop off is so brutal that you might as well play Shoretire in that 10 role. At least he’ll get some first team minutes and we can actually develop the assets instead of DvB shitting the bed.
I’m sure Ten Hag knows all of this, but must have had his reasons for playing him there. The first two PL matches aside, this is the first match recently where I’ve seriously questioned Ten Hag’s first 11, tactics and subs. I give him a 3 out of 10 for this match. Overall, he’s still been very good, totally support him, but he got this match wrong.
Seriously? Jesus Christ
I explained in a post after, but will go into a little more detail, that I thought essentially Ronnie was acting as a target man to bypass the midfield and create knock ins for Garnacho and Donny. Donny had played as a second striker before at Ajax, and the one thing we’ve seen him do competently here is time his movement to find space in the box (what he does after is a separate debate). The problem was, when we were possession, lots of times you saw Donny receive a pass from Dalot at the edge of the touch line, which is where Bruno is supposed to be. Now we couldn’t see with the cameras every time where Bruno’s position was when Donny received the ball in these positions, but the few times we did, Bruno was just a little further up the touch line than he was, essentially ruining the spacing and removing the option for a triangle.
I think he did it 1) lack of options, although as previously said I think we should’ve trialled Pellistri, man starts for Uruguay who aren’t some 3rd rate San Marino type NT, but could be shit going on behind the scenes, and 2) repeating my earlier post, Donny’s starting for him at the weekend and needed to get some minutes under him to sharpen match fitness.
I thought the hoofball (for lack of a more nuanced term) tactics in the first half worked reasonably well, we did get a goal off it, but would’ve been better served putting Bruno at 10 and put speed on both wings. Today kind of reminded me of the LVG/Mo days when he would play Mata as the wide playmaker and rely on Ibra/Fellaini/Lukaku/Rooney to win the knockdowns and play in Rashford.
I also think we’re slowly burning out. Casemiro, while still excellent, seemed a half step off of his normal standards, Eriksen just seemed like he was toast from the start, Ronaldo seemed to press even less today, Dalot and Bruno also seemed a little worn down as well. The only people who seemed up for it were Garnacho and Shaw, along with Licha (I think the man would be up for it against Kettering Town in the first round of the League Cup after a 120 min CL game the day before), who I don’t think by coincidence have also played the least minutes of the aforementioned group. The remaining two, Lindelof and Donny, you could give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were struggling for fitness, or be harsh and say they’re at the standards they showed before EtH showed up, largely shit.
He fecked up the 2nd half game plan last night. Those subs killed us. Our players weren't comfortable with the system change, which allowed Real Sociedad to press us even more effectively. They very effectively scuppered our plan to work the ball to the half spaces before crossing it in.
I agree with this, mostly. Our attack is underperforming. But the Rangnick xG was smoke and mirrors, and that stuck in my craw. I’m on record as being extremely critical of Ralf. Ten Hag has been the exact opposite in that he has been very, very clear: The defense / defending is the platform from which everything else flows. He’s more or less fixed the defense. His work with Dalot alone should probably get him PL Manager of the Year. We’re talking the worst defending fullback in the league under Rangnick, and now he’s been completely transformed.
I actually think our xG numbers aren’t showing our improvement in creating chances. Also, every single attacker is on a cold streak in their finishing. Rashford’s missed a ton of chances, Ronny could fall out of a rowboat and not hit water. Sancho has been timid. Bruno is in his own head, and he is normally quality. Lastly, the teams you mentioned are really good, defensively sound teams. Most teams would have a problem creating versus those sides. Pep had his hands full vs Newcastle and was lucky to escape with a draw.
I have an idea, let’s bring Ole back as the shooting coach or something. Whatever he did or said seemed to work as we had multiple 20+ goal scorers and so many moments of individual brilliance.
Ten Hag biggest challenge is Ronaldo. All these shuffling of players and weird formations and players in unfamiliar positions is because he wants to accommodate him.
People are naive in thinking Ten Hag isn't fazed when handling Ronaldo and has handled him whichever way he's seen fit. I mean he tried at the beginning but he's clearly trading carefully with him now and doesn't want to rock the boat anymore since the incident.
All these scenarios we found ourselves in with Rashford playing as a number 10 while Bruno is shunted out wide is because Ronaldo has to be accommodated, can't be subbed.
While Ten Hag is reluctant to touch Ronaldo in fear of starting drama, players like Bruno suffers, looking less effective on the right. Rashford suffers looking lost playing in that 10 role, losing the ball, unable to maneuver in tight spaces and in turn the whole team suffers.
As long as Ten Hag doesn't grow back his balls to pre tantrum Ronaldo episode when he'd drop him or sub him out, we'll keep racking up these terrible performances. We went from looking so good against Newcastle (once Ronaldo got subbed), Tottenham and Chelsea back to looking average once he got reintegrated in the starting line up and allowed to finish games regardless of his awful performances.
People are naive in thinking Ten Hag isn't fazed when handling Ronaldo and has handled him whichever way he's seen fit. I mean he tried at the beginning but he's clearly trading carefully with him now and doesn't want to rock the boat anymore since the incident.
All these scenarios we found ourselves in with Rashford playing as a number 10 while Bruno is shunted out wide is because Ronaldo has to be accommodated, can't be subbed.
While Ten Hag is reluctant to touch Ronaldo in fear of starting drama, players like Bruno suffers, looking less effective on the right. Rashford suffers looking lost playing in that 10 role, losing the ball, unable to maneuver in tight spaces and in turn the whole team suffers.
As long as Ten Hag doesn't grow back his balls to pre tantrum Ronaldo episode when he'd drop him or sub him out, we'll keep racking up these terrible performances. We went from looking so good against Newcastle (once Ronaldo got subbed), Tottenham and Chelsea back to looking average once he got reintegrated in the starting line up and allowed to finish games regardless of his awful performances.
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I do think ETH's tactical change was odd - highlighted by having Maguire up front. The same maguire who has scored about one header in the last goodness knows how long...