Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

el3mel

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Jesus, just give this a rest. It’s perfectly fine to say I believe that he will become very successful as a manager and that I think he is on the same level. Fine I give you that we can’t compare them head to head with criteria as silverware and honours, but that was never my intention in the first place.

I might be wrong as well, maybe it turns out that he never got that elite manager level. But tbh, it’s something mad and crazy over him. Also this is his first really big club and he did not take over a club who was thriving.

I think he has done fantastic in his first season against a lot of bad odds.

Anyhow, I’m done now :) I rate the guy more than you and we can go on without discussing this topic more.
This isn't the topic we were discussing. You said Guardiola isn't better than him. That's the point of argument, not if he's a good manager or if he will become a top one or not. Talking a lot and trying to goalpost shifting isn't a good strategy for arguing.

Guardiola isn't just a top manager, he's one of the best this sport has ever seen. Saying he's not better than Ten Hag is delusional, plain and simple, regardless of Ten Hag abilities as a coach.
 

el3mel

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The one thing I've learned about fans is we know jack shit about signings.

"Everyone agreed" that Fergie was mad to let Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis leave and rely on Beckham, Scholes etc.
"Everyone agreed" Dwight Yorke was an uninspired signing.
"Everyone agreed" Ronaldo coming back was a brilliant idea.
"Everyone agreed" Michael Carrick was an underwhelming, over priced signing to replace Roy Keane.
You can post hundreds of signings managers asked for and paid ton of money to get them just for them to flop hard and say it's a proof managers know jack shit about signings as well.

It just doesn't work like that.
 

Gavinb33

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You can post hundreds of signings managers asked for and paid ton of money to get them just for them to flop hard and say it's a proof managers know jack shit about signings as well.

It just doesn't work like that.
Yes it's not an exact science, but the manager knows more about what he is trying to do than every fan on here so trust the judgement and see, some of the reactions have been pure hyperbole but then again this is the internet, I'm just glad I don't have twitter anymore
 

el3mel

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Yes it's not an exact science, but the manager knows more about what he is trying to do than every fan on here so trust the judgement and see, some of the reactions have been pure hyperbole but then again this is the internet, I'm just glad I don't have twitter anymore
And even, a player he signed can still flop in such role and needed replacing because the manager judged his abilities wrong and had a wrong level of trust in him. You do your best in signing players you think will fit you the most but the results are never guaranteed. Any transfer is a gamble.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Well yes. He might want to rotate the position more. Get a goalie who suits his style but does not have the deficiencies regarding commanding his area. DDG is fine against some teams, but others have the capabilities to exploit his weaknesses more. Problem we have is despite these weaknesses he managed to win the Golden Glove conceding very few goals at home.
Ten Hag doesn’t want de Gea. But he can coat him off in public if the club won’t give him enough cash to replace him.

‘We need to sign him some competition’ is a well measured line. Zero committment that he won’t be signing a number one.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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It felt like we got our club back this year. EtH has been great and I think next year will be better. He needs better players though.
 

The United

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Jesus, just give this a rest. It’s perfectly fine to say I believe that he will become very successful as a manager and that I think he is on the same level. Fine I give you that we can’t compare them head to head with criteria as silverware and honours, but that was never my intention in the first place.

I might be wrong as well, maybe it turns out that he never got that elite manager level. But tbh, it’s something mad and crazy over him. Also this is his first really big club and he did not take over a club who was thriving.

I think he has done fantastic in his first season against a lot of bad odds.

Anyhow, I’m done now :) I rate the guy more than you and we can go on without discussing this topic more.
Pep is still the best at this moment and ETH has some way, time and money to get to the kind of influence that Pep has in the football. ETH would have done good if he got close to it.
 

croadyman

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I 100% believe Ten Hag is the one to lead us forward, my main concern isn't with him, it's with the club. I can easily see this being a repeat of Jose's and Ole's second season where we looked to be on the right path and then we decided to not back the manager.
Yeah with our owners that's a valid concern
 

andersj

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I hope he walks if Glazer fecks him over this summer. With the position of Arsenal and City, and the likes of Chelsea, LFC and NUFC likely to invest heavily, we can not afford not to spend. The owners can hide behind FFP for past feck ups.

Maguire, AWB, Sancho etc should be considered sunk cost. If we wanna stay in the CL we need to spend just as much as last year.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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No one saves that shot unless you are behind it already. There is only time to get hands up pretty much.
Watch it again. It’s not in the top corner and he gets his feet wrong. It wasn’t a thunderbolt, and he was well sighted, having watched the whole thing unfold.

He’s let down by his defenders but it’s not anywhere near as impressive as it seemed.

Had it been in the 40th minute, people would be looking at DDG more.

I’m not being unreasonable. It’s because I think he’s saved that kind of effort countless times before, that I think he could have saved it.
 

Revan

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Wait, there were people who seriously claimed that ten Hag is as good as Pep?

That is beyond RAWK’s (at its worst) level of delusion.
 

el3mel

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Watch it again. It’s not in the top corner and he gets his feet wrong. It wasn’t a thunderbolt, and he was well sighted, having watched the whole thing unfold.

He’s let down by his defenders but it’s not anywhere near as impressive as it seemed.

Had it been in the 40th minute, people would be looking at DDG more.

I’m not being unreasonable. It’s because I think he’s saved that kind of effort countless times before, that I think he could have saved it.
No one saves that not just because of the power because of the sheer surprise of it. Came out of nowhere.
 

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Wait, there were people who seriously claimed that ten Hag is as good as Pep?

That is beyond RAWK’s (at its worst) level of delusion.
Just one poster, who was rightfully called out for it
 

Rusholme Ruffian

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Agreed and I don't think he's getting enough credit for it. It was a similar game to the one at OT.
Let's be honest - City's goals were pretty lucky. The first one was a brilliant strike - wouldn't take that away from the guy at all - but how many games would the ball drop for a chance like that in the first 12 second of the game? From memory it came off Lindelof and dropped perfectly for him. The second one was a scuffed effort that bounced very kindly for him. Apart from that they didn't have many clear cut chances at all - if anything we had better chances than them. Another day it could easily have ended 2-1 to us, regardless of how much City might have controlled the game.
 

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Wait, there were people who seriously claimed that ten Hag is as good as Pep?

That is beyond RAWK’s (at its worst) level of delusion.
Really bad take. Pep clear no.1 in the PL. Klopp still no.2 in the Prem, for now. I think ETH is more in a discussion with Arteta, Howe and De Zerbi based on this season. Arteta I'd give the nod for style of football and what I consider a lesser team. Good argument between the other two.

And that's just the PL.
 

Acquire Me

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I have changed my mind. He might be not be in the same bracket. Probably somewhat over his bracket :lol: :devil:
 

illotr

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I think everyone can agree that how much a football coach can achieve depends on a) how good the coach is and b) the quality of the players at their disposal, assuming that they all start at a similar age. In the case of Pep, he is edging on becoming the greatest manager ever due to primarily his coaching abilities no doubt. But he wouldn’t come so close to that at the age of 52 without a) having a great platform to start because he was a successful player at Barca, b) making smart career moves and only going to clubs with great resources and recruiting power (he doesn’t need to worry about transfer at all in city because others take care of it), and c) a bit of luck of inheriting a few generational talents at Barca. But there are quite possibly managers out there who are just as good ability wise but achieved less because they don’t tick all those boxes. On the other hand, today’s Pep might just be a little better and more experienced than Pep of 2008 when he had won nothing yet. But the potential and vision are always there. All I am saying is, when we parse everything out, probably no one would argue that Pep has a better cv than all other current coaches perhaps with the exception of Carlo Ancelotti. But that doesn’t mean that no one else is at his level. Regarding ETH, he obviously hasn’t had a good hand as Pep so far. But some might see something in him that he can reach that level of achievements one day given the opportunity, despite his lack of major trophies to show for by now. Early days still so it’s totally a matter of opinions. And since he’s our coach, some of us might be biased to tolerate a bit of wishful thinking but it would be too harsh to scold a fellow red for having a little belief.
 
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RedOrange

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I don't get this line of thinking. So we spent big money renewing an underperforming goalkeeper, AND we spend big money bringing in a new one?

I thought we had budgetary concerns with regards to squad building?
The De Gea rumours could just be the club keeping their options open. If Henderson is sold in the next few weeks and we don't have a De Gea replacement, other clubs will know that they have us over a barrel and just stonewall us for huge fees. The option of simply keeping De Gea another season means we can still just walk away.

This is just speculation though. I hope the club releases De Gea and if the top class options aren't available just pick up a stopgap keeper with the right skill set (or just keep Henderson).
 

RedOrange

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It's not putting down ETH to say he's not in the same bracket as Guardiola. It's just an undeniable fact unless you're suffering with incredible bias. It doesn't mean ETH isn't rated.

You'd think United fans would have learned by now to cool their jets on managers and players until we're actually back to where we should be.
This is kind of a pointless conversation, because their careers are completely different. What ETH has done in his career is very impressive when you consider the talent he's had to work with. If you took all the best players ETH has ever managed and assembled them into a squad they're easily worse than the worst squad Pep's had to manage in his career. Insisting that Pep is some stratospheric level above ETH is about as stupid as saying the converse. How sure are you that Pep could take the job at Ajax and beat Real Madrid and Juventus in the CL? Do you think Pep would have done better with United's squad this year? Anyone who is too certain about their answer to those questions is probably pretty full of it, IMO.
 

RedOrange

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Really bad take. Pep clear no.1 in the PL. Klopp still no.2 in the Prem, for now. I think ETH is more in a discussion with Arteta, Howe and De Zerbi based on this season. Arteta I'd give the nod for style of football and what I consider a lesser team. Good argument between the other two.

And that's just the PL.
The 'lesser team' thing is pretty important. If someone finishes 10th in the British Grand Prix while driving a minivan, can you really be certain that everyone that finished ahead is a better driver?
 

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Never called Mount a bad player, he would in fact be a quality squad player, used in a rotational role but yes, I can express my concerns if he is the only midfield signing we make based on what I believe he offers and as I have previously stated, if Mount is the only midfield signing, I will back the decision, like any new signing even if I do not feel over the moon about it and give them a chance before I reassess. Like a lot of fans, we are wrong about certain players and sometimes we are right about it too even before they have signed.

And calling ETH weak minded for potentially handing DDG a new contract and retaining him as our #1 is weak minded IMO, when he is basically out of contract and we can easily get rid, like most top clubs would have! Majority of the fanbase want a new #1 GK.
And the DDG contract maybe is because ETH has determined that other positions are a higher priority and he knows he doesn't have the money available to buy all he wants, or maybe he's identified a young keeper that won't be quite ready yet to make tyhe step up but will be in a year or 2, that's not weak minded that's being realistic
 

arthurka

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Pep can smoke his PEDs while Klopp polishes his bleached plastic gnashers. Hag is my man with his polished bald head and his enthusiastic Huh.
 

Dominos

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And the DDG contract maybe is because ETH has determined that other positions are a higher priority and he knows he doesn't have the money available to buy all he wants, or maybe he's identified a young keeper that won't be quite ready yet to make tyhe step up but will be in a year or 2, that's not weak minded that's being realistic
I find it very hard to believe we couldn't sign a striker, midfielder and goalkeeper this summer if we really wanted to.

That's going to give us a bigger overall improvement than signing multiple players across other positions and no goalkeeper.

If we go into next season with De Gea as number 1 it's just a flat out dreadful decision. For the last 10 years there's always a section of fans who say "trust the manager and the footballing department, they know what they're doing, it's their job", and we watch them make terrible mistake after terrible mistake in terms of squad building, contract renewals and transfers. This will be another in the long list of inexplicable decisions we've made that has held us back from being successful.
 

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I find it very hard to believe we couldn't sign a striker, midfielder and goalkeeper this summer if we really wanted to.

That's going to give us a bigger overall improvement than signing multiple players across other positions and no goalkeeper.

If we go into next season with De Gea as number 1 it's just a flat out dreadful decision. For the last 10 years there's always a section of fans who say "trust the manager and the footballing department, they know what they're doing, it's their job", and we watch them make terrible mistake after terrible mistake in terms of squad building, contract renewals and transfers. This will be another in the long list of inexplicable decisions we've made that has held us back from being successful.
Agreed
 

croadyman

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And the DDG contract maybe is because ETH has determined that other positions are a higher priority and he knows he doesn't have the money available to buy all he wants, or maybe he's identified a young keeper that won't be quite ready yet to make tyhe step up but will be in a year or 2, that's not weak minded that's being realistic
Right now only striker should be above it on the priority list. Yes we need a number 8 but it has dropped down to 3rd now
 

Red in STL

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Right now only striker should be above it on the priority list. Yes we need a number 8 but it has dropped down to 3rd now
Except that it appears that will be our first purchase, we spend a lot on a keeper then I don't see us getting the striker we need, TBH I would rather we kept Henderson for a season, he's shite at passing but probably better than DDG in the other relevant areas
 

Alfie092

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And the DDG contract maybe is because ETH has determined that other positions are a higher priority and he knows he doesn't have the money available to buy all he wants, or maybe he's identified a young keeper that won't be quite ready yet to make tyhe step up but will be in a year or 2, that's not weak minded that's being realistic
If we get rid of DDG now we save around £18m in wages. That can quite easily go towards signing another GK to become first choice.
 

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If we get rid of DDG now we save around £18m in wages. That can quite easily go towards signing another GK to become first choice.
£18m isn't gonna cover the cost of buying a keeper, the most spoken of, Costa and Raya are priced at (apparently) 60+ million and 40 million and that's not including wages
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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£18m isn't gonna cover the cost of buying a keeper, the most spoken of, Costa and Raya are priced at (apparently) 60+ million and 40 million and that's not including wages
We likely won't pay the 60 or 40 mil up front, so the 18mil we save on De Gea's wages is actually useful.
 

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Agreed and I don't think he's getting enough credit for it. It was a similar game to the one at OT.
City score the typical PES 5 goal at will - touch line, cut back, goal. This isn't me dissing them, when you're good enough to orchestrate that situation again, again and again you're obviously very, very good (much like we used to score an awful lot of similar types of goals under Fergie). Don't recall them doing that once in the final, and only once in the game at OT, their goal (maybe I am misremembering?). ETH deserves an enormous amount of credit for limiting them. Can't really blame a manager for the goals we conceded and can hardly blame him for us not having enough firepower at the other end.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Agreed and I don't think he's getting enough credit for it. It was a similar game to the one at OT.
I actually thought we played even better this game. Our ball retention was better compared to the OT game.

ETH did a good job. Inject more quality and time on the training pitch, we could play them even more evenly next season.
 

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Watch it again. It’s not in the top corner and he gets his feet wrong. It wasn’t a thunderbolt, and he was well sighted, having watched the whole thing unfold.

He’s let down by his defenders but it’s not anywhere near as impressive as it seemed.

Had it been in the 40th minute, people would be looking at DDG more.

I’m not being unreasonable. It’s because I think he’s saved that kind of effort countless times before, that I think he could have saved it.
There is simply too much pace on it and Gündogan hits it without hesitation. It is physically impossible to save that.

Yes I think it is very unreasonable to expect a save on that shot.

The second one he could have saved. Tricky but he should have managed it.
 

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I think Arsenal have a lesser team and they finished ahead.
What you think isn't massively important. Arteta has had 3.5 years in charge and spent around £400 million building a team and style of play. They might have 'lesser' individuals in your eyes (although I'd disagree tbh), but they are far more complete as a 'team' - unsurprisingly as ETH has only been here a year and signed 5 players.
 

pocco

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What you think isn't massively important. Arteta has had 3.5 years in charge and spent around £400 million building a team and style of play. They might have 'lesser' individuals in your eyes (although I'd disagree tbh), but they are far more complete as a 'team' - unsurprisingly as ETH has only been here a year and signed 5 players.
7 players including loans.

We had the likes of Varane, Rashford, Sancho, Bruno etc already, we weren't a complete lost cause like some would have you believe, just badly mismanaged.