Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[spiriticon]

City, Liverpool and Brentford. 3 out of 42 games. That is not a lot.

I mean...is 3 times not enough for you....?

 

[mav_9me]

To all those whinging about ETH ‘getting everything wrong’ go back to half-time and tell us what your thoughts were.

We made one mistake that led to their goal, but had until then effectively weathered the storm and had the better of the chances.

I for one felt supremely confident that we could get back in the second half and win.

Nobody could predict that capitulation.

In fact like others have said, even at 3-0 I thought we could get to 3-3 if we got one.

 

[thegregster]

The worry is that there's a small perception that the team still doesn't need adequate number of recruits. I'd say that atleast 5 signings are needed to replace some of the first team. That's fullback, two midfielders, another wide attacking player (Sancho / Antony haven't been good enough overall) and a striker.

Realistically Fred and Fernandes need improvement upon. The higher the quality of opposition the more of a liability Fernandes will become in possession. It's a double edged sword because he's integral with his contribution but at the end of a few assists and goals his performances always undermine this.

The teams performances have dropped a level or two since Eriksens injury I said the other day that the midfield lacks composure and it shows oftentimes throughout games. Weghorst has been an absolute disaster even to some extent that if Ronaldo didn't come with the baggage off field and towards the team, his genuine footballing ability despite his decline is still miles above Weghorst despite the latter having a far better attitude. My hope is that the manager doesn't see this squad near completion but rather one that needs serious investment.

Agreed with that. But we need another striker. What's the point in having Martial as a backup?Plus we need a goalie.

So it's 7 players. Which is too big an ask for a summer window. So next season will be another in transition. Same old cycle.

 

[bosnian_red]

Disagree.

I don't need 60% possession but I want us to go toe to toe at Anfield. That's the day we know we are at a great level.

Nah. We'll never be able to consistently go toe to toe at Anfield. It's just one of those things that you learn after watching football for years. Smart counter attacking, sure, but United has always had a jinx there. Might be a random individual game where we beat them and outplay them but those are one offs.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Erik Seven Haag has to go now. It is looking more and more like Ole's reign, purple patches dont last forever. At least Ole could handle the big games and not make us lose by such huge margins against our rivals.

You don't make a post for over two years then come back with this shite. Impressive.

 

[TsuWave]

Any team that has 8 shots and scores 7 is likely to inflict an embarrassing loss on the opposing team.

I read this in Michael Owen’s voice, by the way

 

[Moomalade74]

What happened yeasterday was horrific and traumatising, potentially season ending stuff from a confidence and moral perspective.

But at the end of the day I'd rather lose one game 7-0 than seven games 1-0. We are still in a great position in the league, looking at the upcoming fixtures in all likelihood we will increase the distance to Liverpool. 3rd place and even just the Mickey Mouse cup would still be an excellent first season for ETH, anything else is a fantastic bonus.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I can agree if you meant where our team is in the progress. I disagree if you meant it's about players' engrained weak mentality.

Wenger was too stubborn to spend and complete a team on high level. His team is half cooked, leaving luxury good players and average ones. Giroud doesn't look like mental weak player does he with how his career went after leaving Arsenal?

The issue is we're facing is wasting money, and having difficult to sell expensive players. We're still in a rebuild, and Glazers won't allow us to spend in winter window because they're about to sell the club. Rashford record in big games is actually great. You would expect him to be the Giroud in a proper setting than being the Kolscielny.

I dont see how it isn’t a mentality thing. We’re better than 3/4 of the Premier League and yet clubs much worse than us can avoid going to Liverpool city and the likes and shipping 5/6/7 goals on a regular basis. So it’s not really a transfer in transfers out issue.

We’re now talking
Spurs 6-1
Liverpool 5-0
Liverpool 4-0
City 4-1
City 6-3
Brentford 4-0
Liverpool 7-0
Watford 4-1
City 2-0 (not a heavy score line but a game we literally stopped attempting to play football in)

Even looking at some games where we conceded quick fire goals like Leipzig, Leicester, Villa. All of this in two and a half years.
Common denominators are De Gea, Shaw, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, Fred, Mctominay, Rashford, Bruno in particular.

It’s a massive concern to have players with such mental fragility.
We can come back in games a lot and we’ve done that over the years a lot but I don’t think that necessarily shows the true strength in mentality. Especially as a lot of those games were against teams we should be beating anyway.
But when you see these collapses and players shirking responsibility, not trying, making Unforgivable mistakes, not even doing the bare basics. it really doesn’t bode well for a team looking to be a long term success, even if you add in serial winners like Varane and Casemiro.
Bruno is the worse culprit, the guy loses his head like you wouldn’t believe in these situations.

We’re a better side than we were and there’s been progress but that was a real eye opener and for all the talk of we need “2-3 signings to compete for the title”. That isn’t the case, even some of our better players are too fragile mentally and I can’t seeing them ever being a part of a title contending team.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I have zero doubts on that. If he doesn't see it that way, then he will be gone in due course.

The squad needs far more depth, either from new recruits into the first team or on the bench. The issue is that he cannot rotate properly if he even wanted to because the drop in quality is too big. Get those players and we can save the big players a bit more for the big games.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Not preparing them for this scenario might be something that ETH should be blamed for, not whether he put player A or B in position X or Y. There just has to be an agreement with the players that after 3-0 down they switch to a "park the bus" scenario, regardless who is on the pitch.

No coach in the biggest clubs in the world, I assure you, will prepare for a game with scenarios of being down 3-0 after 50 min. What does it even sound like anyway? 'Ok lads I want you to go toe to toe with them, but we are rather shit still so if they are up 3-0 just accept it', great way to build a winning mentality that.

He got a gameplan, a risky one, one that could've worked regarless if our forwards didn't turn to jelly in front of goal, he just underestimate the mental frailty in this team, and to be honest, even those of us who went through years of being disappointed by that mental frailty also did the same, after the recent run of result. He will be ruthless in rectifying that.

 

[ti vu]

In fact like others have said, even at 3-0 I thought we could get to 3-3 if we got one.

You're optimistic. By then, we're wide open. Konate header from cornerkick. If Robertson is right footer, he might have score with his shot. He was unmarked in our box. We got battered coming into second half.

Despite our chances, we didn't have control of the game in the first half. Liverpool only needed the goal to open the floodgate and they did.

If we were 2-0 up, it's more likely that Liverpool would still up for a fight. Not the other way around.

 

[rimaldo]

hi erik, i hope you are well. thanks for the seasono we spent together. good luck for the next year.

 

[golden_blunder]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

 

[scottser]

For all the moaning about squad depth, you have to remember that we were denied the opportunity to add significantly to the squad in January while only being given loan signings. While ETH has done wonders with what he has , there must be some difficult conversations had about yesterday. I would expect that a good chunk of the ire and frustration that we feel today is directed at the owners and board for ignoring the manager's needs and not strengthening the squad properly to see out the rest of the season in light of the club's expectations.

 

[DownRiver]

Honestly, we don’t deserve a 7-0 loss, but we deserve a loss. I think that is was Souness was trying to imply, and I think he was absolutely right. We could have easily lost against Leicester, Newcastle and West ham. There may be various reasons why that we can debate forever, but the our quality has been poor.

 

[Danny]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

It would be very easy to go overboard with criticism wouldn’t it, but he’s said before you can’t get carried away with success just like you can’t get too downbeat about negatives.

He’ll review the game and realise he also made so some poor decisions.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I still don't understand why he decided to not attack Trent with Rashford. He is the manager and i as a fan know shit but imo, he fecked up with that decision. 3 of 4 our attackers started the game out of position.

He went all Pep mode in a big CL game. Overthinking.

Couldn't believe we set up the way we did. Weghorst is clouding his judgement.

 

[RuudTom83]

I feel like every manager needs a Plan A and a Plan B.

Over the last 10 years most United managers find themselves fighting for their jobs in the middle of trying to find Plan A.

EtH has done an amazing job so far (nobody can change my mind on that) but he needs to find a Plan B.

SAF went away from home and played negative football plenty of times, especially in Europe...sometimes it's ok to play for a boring draw.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

Flying shoes would be a tame start.

 

[Cassidy]

This is factually incorrect. 7-0 Liverpool, 6-3 (2 after City stopped trying to play ball), 4-0 vs Brentford. Can probably add 3-1 vs Aston Villa considering how they are this season, but the 3 results Ive mentioned are good old fashioned batterings.

This isnt a comment thats inviting a "what about" response. These are results we have had this season. That information is factual.

Ten Hag deserves credit for making the team tick, win games and look good doing so. We are having a good season. That is factual.

Playing Wout as a starter only to sub him at Half time-60 minutes needs to stop. He is not delivering goals. His role is striker, not just as a great presser. or in the box distraction. When we win, Wout is good. When we lose, he just offers nothing.
Marcus Rashford is our only dependable goal scoring threat. The rest of the team averages 1 goalscoring contribution per game. That is fine as long as we dont concede, but goalscoring needs to come up from other players than Rashford.
Dalot is a very, very bad defender. He is fine going forward, but oh bad he is as atrocious at defending as Harry Maguire is at keeping the offisde line. AWB should always start ahead of Dalot in games where we expect any kind of action from the opposition left flank.
Antony is a marquee signing that is so far not delivering on expectation. He is a Ten Hag signing. We should allow him time to become bettter, but valid questionmarks surrounding his pricetag are becoming warranted.
Bruno Fernandes has a winners mentality, when we are winning, and a completely toxic attitude when we are losing. He can not be named permanent captain ahead of next season. Ten Hag needs to show strength and give the armband to someone who leads even when things are hard.

These are all real, and completely fair, criticisms of Ten Hag that needs adressing. At the same time Ten Hag should also receive praise for making the team entertainnig to watch, dependable on the scoresheet and ruling with authority.

Yesterdays result was not Ten Hags fault. Even for all the reasons above, the players on the pitch should deliver better performances by default. I fully expect Dalot and Antony to sit on the bench next match.

Depends what you mean by a lot, and no you can't add Villa.

It's 3 times this season, I don't think it's "a lot", especially for where we are in our development. Nothing factual about "a lot" in fact its quite subjective so no point writing up a post about something being "factual"

We have suffered 3 bad defeats this season away from home, this is factual. Some may say its a lot, some may say its not.

 

[maxtrash]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

Just shouting would be counterproductive and too simplistic I think. I would probably do the complete opposite.

Similar to how "I'm not angry just disappointed" would be stereotypical thing a parent could say to his child (in the Netherlands at least). After that I could imagine a scenario where they are sitting in a room and letting the players giving each other feedback and moderating the discussion.

 

[Freak]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

Make them suffer mainly - 20km run, shuttle runs, push ups. Anyone who doesn’t puke before then has to do one more round.

 

[romufc]

I dont think another run is what is required this time. Unfortunately, we are just gassed out as a team. we have played so many games and it was going to catch up sooner or later.

This result will give evryone a reality check and a shock to their systems.

Some players will now be given their chances as he will make changes, I expect Malacia, AWB, Sabitzer, Sancho all to come in next game.

 

[DJ_21]

ETH should have said the grass is too long or something. Use a klopp excuse against the man himself.

 

[Giggsy13]

If you were in ETHs position this morning what would you be thinking? What actions would you be taking?

Nothing knee jerk. He knows that approach hasn’t worked with this squad in the past under previous managers. He more than everyone knows he’s inherited a broken squad and that they have been here before. In my view he will view this as a terrible blip but we should all have faith that he’ll guide the squad through this again. I expect big responses against Betis and Southampton.

 

[redNATION]

ETH should have said the grass is too long or something. Use a klopp excuse against the man himself.

Grass too long, very windy and a witch at anfield, might as well use them all at once

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Make them suffer mainly - 20km run, shuttle runs, push ups. Anyone who doesn’t puke before then has to do one more round.

There’s no benefit to punishing them like that at this stage of the season. You can do that after the Brentford game at the start of the season because everyone’s fresh, running them into the ground now is pointless as one of the reasons for the shit performance was partly down to fatigue and playing so many games in a short period of time. Need a different approach here.

 

[Sandikan]

Honestly, we don’t deserve a 7-0 loss, but we deserve a loss. I think that is was Souness was trying to imply, and I think he was absolutely right. We could have easily lost against Leicester, Newcastle and West ham. There may be various reasons why that we can debate forever, but the our quality has been poor.

When he said 7-0 didn't flatter Liverpool?

 

[MUFC OK]

Depends what you mean by a lot, and no you can't add Villa.

It's 3 times this season, I don't think it's "a lot", especially for where we are in our development. Nothing factual about "a lot" in fact its quite subjective so no point writing up a post about something being "factual"

We have suffered 3 bad defeats this season away from home, this is factual. Some may say its a lot, some may say its not.

There's a couple of points though. The Brentford, City and Liverpool game are in the same bracket for be absolute hammerings and should not be happening, even as a team that is 'developing'.

Villa wasn't a cricket score but we did concede two goals in quick succession at the start of a half. That the second concerning trait, shite goals conceded at the start of halves. We have done that on many occasion this season. Also shouldnt be happening and the route cause needs to be addressed.

 

[Zlatan 7]

When he said 7-0 didn't flatter Liverpool?

It didn’t really, I know every bounce and deflection went their way but they could have scored more and kept scoring, we were lucky it wasn’t more.

 

[Sarni]

What is very concerning to me is how we react to adversity in games and I'm not talking about going 1 goal behind against a team that is much worse than us but to being on the ropes. This happened against Brentford, happened against City, IMO was close to happening against Barcelona at OT and we were saved by half time whistle, and it will happen over and over again. We were in control first goal but once they got momentum, we invited them to go at us and destroy us. We were lucky in Brentford and City games that in a way they did not care about continuing to play football for 90 mins as Brentford would have probably finished 7-0 or 8-0 as well and God only knows to what numbers City could have taken us (10 easily IMO) if they felt like it.

We basically surrender at 2-0 and go into hiding at 3-0, we don't even try.

 

[Betson]

When he said 7-0 didn't flatter Liverpool?

If we are honest we were saved by the bell from a double digit drubbing , 10 or 15 more minutes of that game and we could have been staring down a 10 - 0 or more defeat, It was only going one way from a long way out.

No team should ever capitulate like that , never, There is something seriously wrong with the mentality of your players when they give up like that.

I am not sure if ETH has ever experienced a team down tools like that in a big game. He has huge job ahead of him now, it will take more than a few wins to wipe the scars of yesterday, A shameful day in the history of the club.

 

[Sarni]

It didn’t really, I know every bounce and deflection went their way but they could have scored more and kept scoring, we were lucky it wasn’t more.

Well they scored their first after 40 mins only. If they scored two quick goals early in the first half, I don't see how we would have kept the score below 10-0. If the ref added proper amount of stoppage time for all the goals scored in second half it would have been 8-0 or 9-0 as well.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Ten Hag blundered badly against Liverpool with the set up, with Rashford at CF and Bruno on the left, leaving Shaw exposed time and again by Salah cutting in from the right. At the same time, Rashford was largely nullified in the centre instead of being able to target Alexander Arnold. He got this all wrong.

 

[Cassidy]

There's a couple of points though. The Brentford, City and Liverpool game are in the same bracket for be absolute hammerings and should not be happening, even as a team that is 'developing'.

Villa wasn't a cricket score but we did concede two goals in quick succession at the start of a half. That the second concerning trait, shite goals conceded at the start of halves. We have done that on many occasion this season. Also shouldnt be happening and the route cause needs to be addressed.

A team that is developing has issues its needs to fix, especially when getting outplayed was a regular occurrence the season prior.
No one said there were not points, but the main point I made was its not "a lot"

Saying something should not be happening, when it was already previously happening doesn't change a thing, its something the manager needs to address but it won't happen overnight, it will come.
Main thing to me is big games away from home against rivals, we need to be a lot better.

 

[Cassidy]

Ten Hag blundered badly against Liverpool, with the set up, with Rashford at CF and Bruno on the left, leaving Shaw exposed time and again by Salah cutting in from the right. At the same time, Rashford was largely nullified in the centre instead of being able to target Alexander Arnold. He got this all wrong.

Agree with this, and I was shocked he didn't change it at half time, saying that he probably was encouraged bu the first half performance even though we were a goal down.

 

[mav_9me]

That sort of naivety will kill us. I get it, he wants us to play our game regardless, but we’re not yet at the level where we can go to these grounds and dictate proceedings. Even under Ferguson/when we were dominant we used to take a more conservative approach in these games.

I hope Ten Hag realises that soon.

I was so hopeful of playing with Casemiro, Fred and Sabitzer to first win the midfield battle. I thin he has to drop Bruno and win the midfield battle first esp in these away games.

 

[Indranil Roy]

Disagree.

I don't need 60% possession but I want us to go toe to toe at Anfield. That's the day we know we are at a great level.

Even during our prime under Ferguson, can you name 1-2 matches where we were the better team at Anfield?. Granted I have been watching since 1998, but I don't recollect such instances if any.

 

[Sandikan]

It didn’t really, I know every bounce and deflection went their way but they could have scored more and kept scoring, we were lucky it wasn’t more.

It totally flattered them. Most of the goals were an absolute comedy roadshow, and it's not like they had loads of other near misses, great saves by De Gea and the like.
It was one of those score every chance type jobs.

 

[Sandikan]

Well they scored their first after 40 mins only. If they scored two quick goals early in the first half, I don't see how we would have kept the score below 10-0. If the ref added proper amount of stoppage time for all the goals scored in second half it would have been 8-0 or 9-0 as well.

The first half was even at best though. Not even the most deluded Scouser would have seen that coming.

We've had much earlier onslaughts before. I was in the Arsenal end at the Emirates one year when we were 3-0 down after about 15mins. That could have ended at anything, but eased down luckily.