Imo it's not just the transfer business, it's the general decision-making and staff hiring at our club, and it starts with hiring the wrong CEO and cascades down from there. If the CEO of a football club says on the first day something along the lines of "I have no clue about football, if I tried to be involved we would probably get relegated" that should have been a warning sign to all of us that the Glazers again hired the wrong person to move this club forward. The problem is, if he has no clue about football or on field matters, he won't be able to hire the right people that do have a clue. We already had the problem with Woodward and the Glazers learned nothing from it, and you know why? Because they themselves have no clue about soccer or who they could even turn to that could make informed decisions, they turn to people they know and think that are loyal to them. They bought the club when a good structure was already in place, this all hinged on Fergie running pretty much every aspect of the club. Nothing will change as long as the Glazers and their Stooges run things here, they don't have the first clue how to build a modern football club structure and thanks to Richie Rich we will all be stuck with those cretins for the foreseeable future.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Shaw and Martinez are big misses. Casemiro and Varane look like they've had enough of the Manchester weather and have decided to move on. Sancho - nothing to do with ETH, Dortmund pulled our pants down again. Martial - a relic from a bygone time. Pellestri - time to move on. Erikson - 2nd half impact sub. Mount - just not sure what he is tbh. Rashford - back to being a superstar to the detriment of the team. Garnacho - not sure, doesnt create enough. Fernandes, Hojlund, Maguire, McT, Evans - these guys are real Man Utd players, 100% for the badge and we continually slag them (apart from Hojlund). Would you rather rafa, cas, sancho, etc. Talent and Effort dont always come together. Maybe we need better transfer decisions going forward.
The question remains how many games do we have to lose for those sitting on the fence have to change and for me it’s simple, lose against Luton your sacked, beat Luton but lose against Everton your sacked, win both of those but lose against Galatasaray your sacked and then he has Newcastke(A), Chelsea(H), west ham(A), Bayern(H), Liverpool (A), Villa(H), Forrest(A), spurs(H).
Right now it’s conceivable for this united squad to lose 6 or 7 from those 9 PL games and both CL games. The only way ETH keeps his job is win 2 out of 2 CL games, 6 of the 9 PL games and get some draws in tough away games, he’s got 1 maybe 2 PL losses until the trigger is pulled!
Imagine if we get to the new year out of the Carabo, out of CL and Europa, sitting 15th with 25 points from 20 games then what ?
Then what the season just fizzles out and we appoint a new coach, no a big club like united must act that way when the coach loses 9 games from the first 17, he simply has to go irrespective of the football played last night, we’ve witnessed maybe 75-80 minutes of good football across all 17 of those matches, we laughed at Chelsea but this season they will finish at least 5 places above us and probably feature in Europe next year, LVG played s similar brand of football won a more prestigious cup came 4th and 5th and we sacked him so ETH who does not have LVG Cv must be sacked.
Real Man Utd players for me - dependable, talented, hard workers, willing to die for the badge - Maguire, Shaw, Martinez, Fernandes, McT, Hojlund, Evans, - theres 7 throw in Onana, Garnacho, AWB, Mainoo, Lindelof and you have the foundation of a team. Not necessarily a great team but a TEAM all the same.
He will be sacked before Christmas. I don't even think last night was on him (atrocious VAR decisions, ones looked and not looked at, individual mistakes) but to have lost 9 games by the 2nd week in November, basically no chance of qualifying for either the last 16 or Europa League, out of the League Cup, no chance of top 4, it's extremely crap. We played well last night before the red but it's bordering on too little, too late.
I advocated for him a lot, but performances and results this season, coupled with the fact his signings are stinking up the bench for the most part and offering nothing, he won't last much longer.
I advocated for him a lot, but performances and results this season, coupled with the fact his signings are stinking up the bench for the most part and offering nothing, he won't last much longer.
And I’m winning the Euro Millions tonight
Exactly David Gill and Fergie made mistakes but generally people forget we also sold players for decent money.
Ronaldo £80m, Beckham £25m, Stam £11m, Veron £16.5m, RVN £13m with inflation today these figures would be ; Ronaldo £175m, Beckham £75m, Stam £50m, Veron £45m, RVN £35m.
Our current highest sale is £25m
For Dan James who I would swap for Antony in a heartbeat, that should tell everyone the gross dereliction of the clubs transfer policy conducted by Woodward, Judge, Arnold and Murtough!
I’m no fan of Sir Jimmy but if he’s proposing a hard reset with Arnold and Murtough being sacked then that’s a huge step in the right direction. I also don’t think he’ll tolerate too much of ETH nonsense and he’ll be gone within 4 weeks of his 25% being ratified.
If he doesn't tighten the defence, he'll not last the year.
You can't be conceding 4 goals to Copenhagen even if you're a man down, especially when they were pretty crap last night to start with.
You can't be conceding 4 goals to Copenhagen even if you're a man down, especially when they were pretty crap last night to start with.
The problem with shifting Sancho, Varane and Casemiro, they are all on big money and the club will want a transfer fee. No chance of getting that, if we don’t have a list of a full replacement bring in Didier Deschamps, Zidane or Naigelsman on a 6 months interim contract and let them have their international job too, we won’t be in Europe so Deschamps or Naigelsman will only have one game a week to prepare, I think any top flight Coach will get Casemiero, Varane and Sancho playing well again and increase their market value in the summer when at least 2 out of three should be sold to raise transfer funds.
Right now I’d get Harry Redknap for 6 months if he’s up for it, because he tipped us for the league, what did he see that no one else did?
Anything but 6 points against Luton and Everton, he’ll be sacked or on a short term stay pending execution?
I don't know about six points, but we must try to keep clean sheets.
A 0-0 draw is better than losing.
Didnt we pay £40m for Veron tho??
People thinking he will be sacked anytime soon are wrong. The Glazers are not going to act. They are pushing their mess over the table for Ratcliffe to deal with. Ratcliffe won't sack the manager immediately either, that would start his own tenure on the wrong foot. Plus there are very few available managers out there.
The club need to publicly back Ten Hag and privately tell players that they either buck up their ideas or they will be sold.
This won't happen though. Because it is not a serious club. Who even cares anymore?
The club need to publicly back Ten Hag and privately tell players that they either buck up their ideas or they will be sold.
This won't happen though. Because it is not a serious club. Who even cares anymore?
No £28M.
There will never be another Fergie. I'm however not for sacking ETH, what I do want is a structure around him. His transfer choices are his biggest problems, he needs someone above him to control the bigger picture that includes making the shortlist of players ETH can choose from. And let ETH just coach and manage the tactical side of the team.
It is obvious he is completely controlling the transfers at this moment and either he is really underestimating the PL or he really can't spot ability and talent at all. I still believe he can become a great tactician and coach, doubt his scouting ability though.
Why do people keep using Fergie's name to provide excuses for other managers beneath his level or making Fergie's success seem achieveable by just anyone?
I don't see people saying Antony should be given more time because Cristiano didn't score many in his first 18 months.
I don't see people saying Antony should be given more time because Cristiano didn't score many in his first 18 months.
Agree on the first point, not the second. Hoijlund should have played the 90, he was a constant nuisance and was taking players out of the game. He was integral to us controlling the second half up until the 80th minute.
Yesterday was undoubtedly a struggle but it once again exhibited our seemingly ingrained inability to hold onto a lead. This is a characteristic of ours this season and one that's going to take a lot it seems to change.
I think ultimately, even if we were a bit unlucky last night - I don't think that's an excuse for the manager or team. 2-0 up and down to 10 men should be a situation we are able to manage better. 3-2 up with 10 men to go should be manageable for the final 10 minues.
Similarly, if we don't make it out of the group, this game can't and shouldn't be used as an excuse as to why we failed to progress in the CL.
Said it when the group was drawn, there's no real excuse not to qualify out of this group.
Similarly, if we don't make it out of the group, this game can't and shouldn't be used as an excuse as to why we failed to progress in the CL.
Said it when the group was drawn, there's no real excuse not to qualify out of this group.
Have to say the losses in the CL this year are up there with some of the most calamitous in the history of English teams in Europe. Proper shit losing to two crap sides from winning positions. Shipping 11 goals in 3 games is just unacceptable.
There's a whole bunch of context you have to put in there though. The pens amd red cards alone are a big contributing factor.
I argued last season that people were getting carried away with ETH. Far too giddy. Seeing things(patterns of play) that weren't there.
But now its flipped the other way. He's had such bad luck this season. It'd be incredibly harsh to sack any manager whose been dealt this hand.
You're not as clever as you think you are. I assumed it would be blindingly obvious to take inflation into account. So I ask the question again.
Barring a miracle, we’re out at group stage in a group with teams like Copenhagen and Galatasaray - all due respect - after the money spent. The guy has to go.
The standards keep falling lower and lower under the guise of “rebuild/transition”. That “get behind the manager” stuff is a bad religion.
The standards keep falling lower and lower under the guise of “rebuild/transition”. That “get behind the manager” stuff is a bad religion.
I think I'm right in saying we need at least 2 draws or a win against Galatasary and Bayern or we're bottom of the group. Seems the most likely scenario that we won't even be in Europa league. Shocking.
I would buy into that if I didn't see many examples of managers going into other squads and sorting them out pretty quickly. Whether that is competing for titles or making a team solid to avoid relegation - we have seen it many times. So I just can't buy into the idea that it is a problem, or if it is a problem, it isn't one that ETH should have sorted. Like I said, nobody was talking about downing tools, poor characters, lack of leadership, healing minds or lack of confidence just last season.
I don't care what argument you try to make, he is not at the same level. Especially in England where he grasp of the language is so poor and he lacks the charisma and authority. Perhaps in Netherlands he came across better - but you really need the gift of the gab to be a top class manager. It's not all tactics but personality and your dealings with 25 young lads trying to be the best in the sport. You talk about confidence being an issue - this was never the case in 20+ years under Fergie, not for 8 months. That is because he has what Ten Hag lacks.Was Fergie 18months in the same league as ETH 18 months I wonder
Team won at the weekend with Pellistri putting in a good cameo, but he couldn't resist finding a spot for "Rashy".
The decision to sit on his hands when the red card came shows that the 7-0 to Liverpool wasn't just bad luck.
To close the game down at 2-0 up after losing a man is Football Manager 101.
The decision to sit on his hands when the red card came shows that the 7-0 to Liverpool wasn't just bad luck.
To close the game down at 2-0 up after losing a man is Football Manager 101.
Nothing can ever be his fault.
The cult of the manager is a big issue in this fanbase. I think a lot of United fans are simply conditioned to believe that the manager is untouchable no matter how shite things get. Having one man run the club successfully for over two decades will do that.
B-b-but what about Fergie’s first 18 months in the job like half a century ago?
Ten Hag isn't doing himself any favours but the string of bad luck / decisions going against us is absolutely ridiculous.
I get that Ten Hag isn't doing a spectacular job but looking at the decisions given against us it could have been easily a 12 point swing and comfortably 2nd in our CL group.
I also don't get people scream for Ten Hag's head, firstly when you want to fire the manager you need to see who's available and more importantly who is willing to take up the clown fiesta that is Manchester United right now. There's no real viable options that are real upgrades.
Secondly, its ridiculous that we keep firing managers when the players & the owners don't do anything for the club. We have tried so many different managers, none of them have been able to succeed. Thats a sign that its not necessarily the manager's fault
I can get why people thought Jose who was toxic and Ole who has 0 previous experience at the top level weren't good fits for the job but Ten Hag ticks pretty much every criteria that we need from a manager but is still unable to succeed, so whose fault is it then?
I get that Ten Hag isn't doing a spectacular job but looking at the decisions given against us it could have been easily a 12 point swing and comfortably 2nd in our CL group.
I also don't get people scream for Ten Hag's head, firstly when you want to fire the manager you need to see who's available and more importantly who is willing to take up the clown fiesta that is Manchester United right now. There's no real viable options that are real upgrades.
Secondly, its ridiculous that we keep firing managers when the players & the owners don't do anything for the club. We have tried so many different managers, none of them have been able to succeed. Thats a sign that its not necessarily the manager's fault
I can get why people thought Jose who was toxic and Ole who has 0 previous experience at the top level weren't good fits for the job but Ten Hag ticks pretty much every criteria that we need from a manager but is still unable to succeed, so whose fault is it then?
No it was £28m not £40?
We sold him for 60% of what we paid, right now 60% of Martial, Antony, Sancho and Maguire would be £175m.
Right now we’d be lucky to get £80m for that lot !!!
He doesn’t see it that way with ETH it’s win or lose no draw ?
Good post, And you are right.
I think ideally the club would like to try hold off sacking him until this ownership situation is completed, but I just cannot see a situation where he gets through that 8 game gauntlet from Newcastle onwards.
Regarding last night, yes we were better for the opening 40 minutes, but that seems more of an anomaly than what we can expect to be a regular thing.
Then you have things such as the Dalot selection. He shouldn’t have been starting after last week, but again it cost us.
The in game management once again was poor. It feels that we are having to change personnel at half time of every game, which is an indication of poor team selection. Yes last night couldn’t be helped, but it seems to happen every game now.
and let’s not get started on the bizarre situation of him signing players and having no clue what to do with them.
And Solskjaer was a penalty away from winning an EL. Just because someone wins a cup doesn’t mean they’re going to go on to greatness.
Probably for the best, he’ll only pick his strongest 11 again every week and everyone will get injured like last year.
But he didn’t win a trophy
So how is that better than someone who has?Yep. I think getting completely dumped out of all competitions will be the thing that helps ETH without him realising. It will save him from himself.
Thank feck it's not your club.
Very poor in game management once again by Ten Hag. I have no faith in him during big away games. His refusal to play Reguilon at LB instead of Dalot is a mystery. Not bringing on Lindelof, Reguilon, Amrabat, Mount to sure up midfield when Rashford got sent off was a travesty. We completely collapsed at 2-0 before half-time. Farcical management.
Critical of ETH for all kinds of unforced errors, but his English comms probably aren't any worse than Conte at Chelsea when he was winning a title with them, or Poch when he was shaping that Tottenham team in the early days, or Ranieri at Leicester, let alone in Chelsea days, to name a few. Might or might not be true in your case but this kind of statement tends to come disproportionately from monolingual English-speakers or people who've never had to use their language skills in a professional context. His English is good enough, although you can always refine it - players are used to dealing with ESOL speaker managers in a cosmopolitan changing room environment. The more important thing is how he manages his coaching staff (who convey instructions to players) and the non-verbal side (team set-up, tactical drills and 'plays', in-game changes)...