If Jose was the only manager/player whose career was destroyed or seriously diminished after joining us, then you’d have a point. Majority of people who joined United since 2013 has left with their reputations in tatters or worse off then when they joined. United destroy everything, Jose was just one of many.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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Firstly - we know a bunch of the players that Mourinho wanted to bring in, and every single one of them (with the possible exception of Perisic for a couple of years) would have failed. So he certainly wouldn't have been able to fix the squad. He would have just left us with a squad of aging players that didn't have any legs and were already on the decline when we signed them (in other words, the player versions of himself).
Secondly - this idea that he called the players that weren't good enough is ridiculous. Name one single player in that squad at the time that he couldn't have been able to name as an issue and ultimately been proven right about? Indeed, the two players he had the biggest issue with (Pogba and Martial) were his two best players during his last season, while the two players that he loved more than any (Lukaku and Matic) were easily the worst performing in the squad. Also, Pogba and Martial continued to be quite good after he left until they both got destroyed by injury in 20/21 and never recovered, not anything to do with them not cutting it.
He is not "my man".
I've been critical of him a lot, and also I've stated a few times that I expect him to be sacked at the end of the season, unless he gets the FA cup win.
But I'm always trying to look objectively at the bigger picture. At this point I'm convinced that a bunch of our starters are much bigger issue than the manager.
There is no manager in the world who can make a team built around Bruno and Rashford consistent and dominant. The only solution with them is to revert to defensive low block football, relying on long through ball counter attacks. This works to an extend. But when they have a bad game, we're fecked even with this setup.
Yesterday we actually had more possession than Brentford and we completed more passes. If I decide to bother with that, I can screenshot and pinpoint at least 20 moments in the game where we were one accurate pass or one 1vs1 second ball recovery away from transitioning to deadly attack where we outnumber their defenders.
We have so many games this season where we win 1 out of 10 second or even first balls. And in absolutely every game, Bruno who is supposed to link the team together, picks the wrong pass. Instead of finding free man on the wing, he tries to lash the ball onto somebody who is surrounded by 3 defenders.
There is a reason why we instantly improve our possession when even dead legs Eriksen comes on. He knows when to pick the simple pass, he knows how to keep the game ticking. Bruno always looks for the surprise ball.
Also, the moment Rashford gets the ball and sticks his eyes to the ground, just mindlessly running towards a defender, I know our attack is fecked.
So Jose was wrong to blame players?
De Zerbi, Amorim , Nagelsman are probably the only managers worth looking at. Maybe McKenna but he has never managed in the top Division yet could be too soon for him. Biggest fear is we sack Ten Hag and end up with Southgate it will be another disaster appointment and this forum will be asking for Ten Hag to come back. I have not exactly been blown away with Ten Hag. But maybe he needs a clear out and given next season as a last chance . We still playing Lindelof , Maguire, Mctominey. You got deadwood like Martial and many others still on the books. The Murtough/ Arnold reign of terror has set this club back.
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People can't be blaming the players after last night. The defense especially gave everything to keep the score down in the face of Brentford's pressure throughout the game.
Other players who get criticised every game on here are clearly trying to win yet the problem is we have zero direction. There is no tactics no sign of any coaching and absolutely no in game management.
The players play like they have no idea of how they are supposed to play and that is totally down to the manager.
If these players were downing tools then we would have lost ten nil last night
Other players who get criticised every game on here are clearly trying to win yet the problem is we have zero direction. There is no tactics no sign of any coaching and absolutely no in game management.
The players play like they have no idea of how they are supposed to play and that is totally down to the manager.
If these players were downing tools then we would have lost ten nil last night
Surprised it's so high actually.Since our League Cup win we've played 43 PL Games and our GD is +2.
I don't think that was down to any footballing ambition from Woodward. I think it was driven by the prospect of low season ticket renewals. A few weeks before the end of that season, the club was ringing up season ticket holders to ask if they were going to renew (that's never been done before or since) and fans like myself said "not if Van Gaal is there next season". The football on display during his second season was so mind-numbingly dull that a lot of people sat around me stopped turning up.
Take yesterday as an example, there is not many managers in the world who would have Lindelof/Varane/AWB/Rashford/Bruno/McTom playing in a dominant possession style which many on the Cafe are hoping for.
Add to that it was the first game after an international break, and it was a recipe for disaster.
EtH was also to blame, but I'm not sure what would make the biggest difference, a new manager or new players...United probably need both.
Add to that it was the first game after an international break, and it was a recipe for disaster.
EtH was also to blame, but I'm not sure what would make the biggest difference, a new manager or new players...United probably need both.
Let's be fair, you could only say that if the Liverpool performance was the norm this season and not a rarity.
We've been performing like this for most of the season.
How can anyone say he is worth another season when we are constantly leaking the amount of shots conceded throughout this season and injuries are the issue because even the prior season we took multiple woeful hidings under him, you can point to comparing him to arteta but I don't remember arsenal being so heavily pummelled by the opposition on a regular basis in his first few season.
It's always been both
Ole got us 3rd and 2nd, the League Cup win was great but let's not pretend it was a Herculean task to overcome a struggling Villa, Burnley, Charlton, Forest and Newcastle.
Of those players he's only really developed Dalot, Garnacho and Mainoo would have broke through regardless of who was here. He signed Hojlund and Martinez.
The injuries have been bad and the strucutre is poor but he's been finsncially backed like no other United manager in history.
I give up mate.
With (nearly) best lineup lately we are still dominated by every team. It is clearly not working.
Weakness no.1 - The positioning of our 8 and 10 in midfield, playing too high and open leaving a huge obvious weakness that is exploited every week.
Weakness no.2 - The team's inconsistency in possession, Rashford and Bruno being the main offenders. Opponents just have to simply wait for us to give them the ball for them to exploit weakness no.1
Weakness no. 3 - The manager's inability to learn from his mistakes, pure stubbornness when it comes to how we set up and delusion when it comes to performance levels. We're that predictable it makes it easy for every opponent to overpower us, week after week.
Once we have two new midfielders to partner Mainoo in a proper set up, along with Amad replacing Rashford in the starting XI, the difference will be night and day.
Weakness no.2 - The team's inconsistency in possession, Rashford and Bruno being the main offenders. Opponents just have to simply wait for us to give them the ball for them to exploit weakness no.1
Weakness no. 3 - The manager's inability to learn from his mistakes, pure stubbornness when it comes to how we set up and delusion when it comes to performance levels. We're that predictable it makes it easy for every opponent to overpower us, week after week.
Once we have two new midfielders to partner Mainoo in a proper set up, along with Amad replacing Rashford in the starting XI, the difference will be night and day.
I hope the new management solves that issue anyhow
100% what I see as well! They play like they have no actual directions of how to play while Brentford had a clear plan to execute. This was a tactical issue and not a player issue. Not weird that some looked frustrated and clueless when they have no idea what to do both in defence and offence...
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Getting worse the more time he has on the training pitch and getting worse the longer he is here. Opposite of what you want
A decision should be made by May. It should not depend on 4th, 5th or the FA Cup, because the odd match may decide those. Hopefully we'll have the people who can analyze things deeper than that.
Any word from our new saviour? Been pretty quiet around him...
This is what's so annoying for me. Ik starting to question what people think managers are evaluated on. There are 11 players on the pitch, all of whom were highly valued prior to their arrival. They've consistently performed badly since the beginning of the season. Tactical, we get easily countered with gaps in the middle. We have consistently struggled to created chances, teams consistently create more than 20 shots against us and our squad value and reputation is higher than all but maybe 3 teams in the league. That screams of a bad manager with poor strategy. Yet at United, where any other club would be blaming the manager, with the understanding that players would be sold on the summer. At United, it's always " the players aren't fighting for the shirt". " Let's see what he can do with an overhaul'.
This behaviour started from.the very start of his tenure. Looking back, the Brighton and Brentford games last season should have been assessed and taken more seriously. But at United as it was a sign of what was to come. Yet United and the media took an " it's the poor quality of the players to play his style approach". Top clubs expect good managers to show decent performances coming out of a preseason. The manager is then judged on how the team looks until it's apparent that he has them playing with a rhythm. The only manager United have had that received this natural treatment was Moyes. Since then our pro- manager approach has been costing us.
Anyone else feel that we love defending with a straight line of players and it never works?
When we are defending set pieces we also love defending with a straight line of players and all balls cleared surely go to the opposition
I at least agree with the bolded part, but isn't that his own fault? He's the one that waxes lyrically about Bruno and gave him the armband, as well as sanctioning Rashford's mega extension.
It's not like he has a gun pointed at him forcing him to keep certain players and constantly play them
Just a shite tactician and poor recruitment. Seeing McAllister play and knitt things together for the scousers for 35m quid begs the question why we brought Mount for that ridiculous fee.
Exactly. All blame ultimately falls at the manager. That's football 101.
We probably never even looked at him, because the double pivot and a 10 is set in stone in his system. He seems to have no intention of truly changing anything and is merely looking for like for like replacements.
Yeah I mean this is my issue with the "it's not his fault" crowd that have filled these pages. You can't absolve him from blame saying "he doesn't have his proper players he needs" when he's spent almost half a billion on players that he's mostly chosen himself as well as clearly defined who in the squad he deems important to the side. Even if you want to roll with that flawed logic, I STILL don't want a footballing man that is so incompetent at evaluating talent that he needs his hand held like a child through deciding which players are "good" and "bad" regardless of whether it should ultimately be all his responsibility.
No midfield no matter how good it is individually will look any good when our defenders are completely detached from the front six leaving our CDM in no man land defending a space as big as Alaska. Clearly we can see how tactically inept we look on the field.
Maybe he's trying to get the sack before CL is mathematically impossible?
Us not signing a top deep midfielder was the biggest feck up, this season has panned out exactly as expected, in dire need of one. I feel for Mount as he’s a useful player in an offensive position, he’s taken the flak for Ten Hag and Murtough’s incompetence.
If he wins FA(big if), he probably will still stay. Depend on candidates.
As bad as we currently are, I don't think Ineos can risk another fail appointment.
As bad as we currently are, I don't think Ineos can risk another fail appointment.
It's always both.
This appointment has been just a massive show of weakness from the club imo.
From the very beginnining. The plan when Ole was not to be manager was to adopt the football structure other teams are using, as it was clear it hadn't worked for us. Instead, one an Eredivisie manager with a seemingly good system and one semi-final in the Champions League campaign popped up, as usual we abandoned all our plans and gave him far too much power.
The sad thing is, in sacking Ole we had shown signs of improvement in this regard. Unlike Ten Haag, Ole had shown signs of good attacking performances with the problem usually being a lack of quality in the final third in games where we were camped in the opposition half. We struggled to break those down. Yet the fact was, we were camped in the opposition half. Ole deserved to stay as long as he did, but also deserved to be sacked once he showed that he couldn't manage a progressive side with big personalities.
With Ten Haag, we took a massive step back. His job is to get good and consistent performance from the team. Good and consistent performances come with control and chance creation. The hope for a good manager is that once they can get us playing good football consistently, we can challenge for key trophies consistently, improving in quality enough to where we can expect to win. None of the managers we've hired have even done that bar maybe Jose in small batches of 16/17 and 17/18. Yet we've always treated these managers like players are simply not giving them enough, rather than calling it what it is and seeing that both parties have simply failed to show cohesive quality. The manager's job also entails getting that cohesion, and somehow fans and the media, in regard to United, have always seemingly blamed players for this, as opposed to the managers. Right now, we're breaking negative records, yet people somehow still want to blame players for this. Players who have looked good in other clubs and with their national teams, yet can consistently concede 20+ chances a game at United. The system and strategy he uses sucks and the fact that despite his job being on the line, he's still using it, doesn't show resolve, but rather unseriousness, stubborness or a lack of ideas....or it could be all three. As a fanbase, we expect so little of managers. I hate the fact that's the case, as it exposes the fact that the media painted Sir Alex' success as simple. Like any good manager with time could get a team to play swashbuckling attacking football when given good support. It's quite clear the club thinks that ( with appointing Ole and Moyes) and the fans think that ( with how easily they crown a messiah).
Our problem is when we hire managers, we almost try to prove that we made the right decision hiring them, instead of assessing them to see if they deserve the job. We're more concerned with selling the idea of them to the public rather than ensuring they get us to success. A good club should see an underperforming, poor manager and be able to sack them within 2 months. At United we look for every reason to keep them, use small wins as indicators of success and can keep a bad underperforming manager for 2 years. Giving a manager " time" isn't an indication of a good structure. No club with a good structure would give underperforming managers time. They'd all sack the manager and replace them quickly. Making tough decisions decisively and giving fans faith that they can always make those type of decisions. Player's opinions and training practices are considered. Unlike us, they won't just consistently shut down any news coming from within the club, and treat the opinions of grown adults as petulance from children. Our mentality is still stuck in the 90's which is why we've been operating so badly. The managers don't suffer from this, its the players that do.
To be honest this is no fault of Mount. Even if we had brought in the right midfielders, this manager seem incapable of coaching a team to dominate games in this league.
It's a fresh start for Ineos. But the main thing is the people who are responsible to pick out the manager aren't there yet. So unless we are doing things under the table, then it's gonna be a weird situation.
Yes ofcourse he would sanction extending Rashford. ETH wasnt the one who negotiated the deal with Rashford though. You think ETH should have said ''no thanks'' when he was asked if the club should extend Rashford his contract? Rashford was his best player last year. I dont think ETH was even asked. Ofcourse Rashford was going to get an extention after last year as a youth product and with his PR value.
It would have been more of as sackable offense if ETH said that Rashford should be let go on a free and told the club that they should sign a 100m replacement left winger for him instead.
Generally the centre backs can only go as high as the half way line, they need to play higher but there's a limit, as one kick up and the strikers are through on goal, on side. The midfield needs to be tighter to the defence, more than the other way around, especially with the set of players we have currently. I should've added the importance of a new manager in charge of the new midfield too.
Klopp just mostly get players performing like Fergie did most of the time.
The scoreline against Brentford won't hit the headlines like the 7-0 mauling by Liverpool. It won't be talked about in years to come but make no mistake about it-the performance we saw yesterday leaves no doubt that ETH is the wrong manager at the wrong time for our club.
Yesterday's performance reminded me of Mourinho's United's performance against Sevilla a few seasons back. A must win game yet the players acted it out as if it were a pre season match. Sometimes teams can be slow to get started in matches and that is where you expect the manager to step in and interact with his team, either vocally, tactically or personel wise. After that match Mourinho did not acknowledge how bad or lacking in energy we were and instead went on a rant defending his record. It was at that point that Mourinho lost me.
Fast forward to 2024 and the match against Brentford had the same impact on me.
It's been difficult to properly assess ETH's performance as Manager this season as
a) our injury list has been nothing short of absurd this season and
b) United were shorn of three of their first choice attackers with the drama surrounding Sancho, Ronaldo and Greenwood and with no transfer money coming in from their departure to offset their absence either.
But the injury list has been something of a red herring at times as there have been a number of matches where we've pretty much had a full strength team out. Our performances weren't better even then and even when missing some players we have been comfortably outplayed (if not always beaten) by teams with players supposedly less talented than our lot.
Yesterday's performance reminded me of Mourinho's United's performance against Sevilla a few seasons back. A must win game yet the players acted it out as if it were a pre season match. Sometimes teams can be slow to get started in matches and that is where you expect the manager to step in and interact with his team, either vocally, tactically or personel wise. After that match Mourinho did not acknowledge how bad or lacking in energy we were and instead went on a rant defending his record. It was at that point that Mourinho lost me.
Fast forward to 2024 and the match against Brentford had the same impact on me.
It's been difficult to properly assess ETH's performance as Manager this season as
a) our injury list has been nothing short of absurd this season and
b) United were shorn of three of their first choice attackers with the drama surrounding Sancho, Ronaldo and Greenwood and with no transfer money coming in from their departure to offset their absence either.
But the injury list has been something of a red herring at times as there have been a number of matches where we've pretty much had a full strength team out. Our performances weren't better even then and even when missing some players we have been comfortably outplayed (if not always beaten) by teams with players supposedly less talented than our lot.
This even smaller clubs sack underperforming managers. Like Leicester sacked Raineri after winning the PL(a historic achievement). We have a cult of the manager mindset in our fanbase because of Saf that the other biggest clubs in world dont.