Oh yes, see what you mean. I agree there totally, I just can't see INEOS starting the season with him in charge.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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Just looked at that comment section and my jaw dropped to the floor.That comment section is next level delusionalAnd I thought it was bad on here.
Either the oppo fans are having a laugh or these fans have never actually watched full games this season, and go off 3 min highlights or purely the scoreline.
The only valid concern people should have is who may come in.
However, this shouldn't influence whether he stays or goes. It's clear that we're a chaotic mess and the chances of him turning it around are slim-to-none.
Good video but shows how insane ETH's tactics are. He's trying to play an ineffective mesh of a high forward line and a deep back line. I'm sure he wants to play a high back line too, but we just have too slow of a defence. But then the answer should be implementing Brighton's style, which is to try to keep possession and create these 'artificial transitions' as they say in the video. Probably is a good reason why we should go for De Zerbi as it seems like Brighton's approach might fit our squad quite well.
Also if having immobile defenders is a huge reason why ETH can't play the way he wants to play, then it's crazy that he didn't prioritize getting fast CBs in the transfer window rather than spending all that money on Antony+Mount.
It’s a childish article.
Why hasn't he played Kwambala more if the issue is a slow, ageing back line?
Some of that is clickbait horsesh*t. The start of it is peddling some stat website and they were quoting stats that just confirm what we know, that it’s been a terrible season. Nobody disputes that, what people dispute is why it’s been so bad which they don’t seem to be able to discuss.That comment section is next level delusional
Anybody who says “ETH spent” , ignores injuries and the club/player dramas , isn’t really interested (or able) in understanding why United are where they are. They are only interested in looking at why it’s the managers fault. I find these sort of things really “Sky sportsy”, basically tabloid headlines stuff that’s not really anyway insightful, just pushing simple football narratives that most fans can relate to
And before anybody goes full twat with the “ETH cultists” childish stuff, I don’t know if ETH is good enough or even if this season can be excused because of what went on. I’ve an issue with those who dismiss it absolutely and Just ignore the mitigating issues.
But it's not bad on here at all, thankfully. Our last 2 full-time managers caused this place to turn into an utter shithole and both had far more staunch backers. The overwhelming majority, for once, want rid of a manager.That comment section is next level delusional
How many staunch fans does he have on here? Maybe 3? Then there's a very small handful who will try, rightly or wrongly, to add some rationale/context as to why we've been so bad this season. That's very tame to be honest.
I love these loons who keep saying they think we should "give him next season".
Yes that's literally what we'd be doing. Giving up and giving away a season. Just for the sake of their egos that in their minds they get an extra chance at being vindicated.
Then we get to October and see it's still the exact same hopeless torturous football with dismal results, and then we're back to the territory of "give him until the end of the season to sort it" and "seasons a write-off anyway, no point doing anything until the summer"
It's a football forum mate that's how they work.
The point is there isn't a lack of options. There's roughly the exact same options there were 12-24 months ago. We can't get Pep, Klopp wouldn't join and I don't think Arteta is an option. Other than those 3 and perhaps one or two other coaches at top clubs in Spain. There's no manager that we wouldn't realistically be able to get. The position of Manchester United manager usually comes with a salary that puts the manager in the top 5 in the world in terms of wages.
Let's stop acting like our only options to replace Ten Hag are Graham Potter and Gareth fecking Southgate.
We're at the same stage of the process we were back in the Van Gaal era when people were delighted we managed a shot on goal during a run of 0-0 draws.
If he stays it's going to be the way more expensive option than sacking. He is clearly a one tactic manager, who needs 11 players to make his only tactic work. That's pretty much 9 first team players, including our crocks of Shaw and Martinez. If INEOS are insistent on this style of play, then it probably makes sense to stick with him but they must back him. If we go into next season with Rashford, Casemiro and Fernandes starting, then we will be having this same conversation come May/June time.
No appreciation for the Literary arts.
This squad has by this stage largely been shaped by Ten Hag he's signed 12+ players and promoted several others during his time, he's been backed like no other United manager in the transfer market and after 2 years of this we aren't even 'scrabbling' around for 5th we're a fecking country mile off it with a negative GD. We're as close to 13th as we are 5th.
He's had enough time and money to build a team that at the very least looks like it plays with some sort of plan or structure that has a functional midfield and doesn't concede 20-30 shots on goal every game regardless of the opposition. A team that should at least be in with a shout of 4th place in the final weeks of the season. Or at the very, very least a team that scores more fecking goals than it concedes by April.
Exactly. Let's be honest the only reason he's still in a job is that the new owners probably didn't want to have to sack him and appoint an interim as their first act after taking over football operations mid-season. You can't go into next season with half a mind on sacking Ten Hag because you want ''see how he does for a few months''. If that was the case then why wouldn't they have just said that in January, ''let's see how he does until the end of the season before making a decision''. Well we know how well he's done now.
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Since systematisation took hold in the mid-60s, football has always been about space, but the orthodoxy has always been that it was about creating it for yourself and denying it to the opposition. But Ten Hag has disrupted all that. He’s through the looking-glass. What, he’s asked, if you give the opposition space? Elite-level players are used to being put under pressure, they’re used to being closed down, they’re used to opponents pressing. Space alarms them. It makes them uneasy. It makes them think too much.
Amid the cavernous vaults of United’s midfield, their fears and doubts echo unnervingly. And so they miss. They can’t handle it when it’s too easy for them. Forget positionism, relationism, counter-pressing and the rest: this is the future. Ten Hag has invented inverted pressing.
It’s not just Liverpool who have found United’s weird openness hard to deal with. In the past 14 games, United have conceded 308 shots. That’s 22 per game, and yet United have lost only three of those matches. A rough rule of thumb over football history is that nine shots equal a goal: United in effect are giving away almost 2.5 goals per game, and yet in those 14 games they’re leaking an average of just 1.71.
And
The referee Anthony Taylor made as many interceptions in the game (two) as United’s central midfield trio between them.
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I haven't watched the video totally but we also don't press properly, we don't cover space in front of the backline efficiently and we don't cut passing angles. We also don't really funnel the opposition in areas that we predetermined and suit us, at least it's something that we do with any sort of systematism.
Also it's not really true to state that defenders are too slow to play a high line, at top level even slow defenders are fast enough. The issue is one of anticipation from defenders and putting enough pressure on passers to make choose less than optimal passes, that's why Barcelona at their best were able to play a very high line with the likes of Mascherano, Piqué and Busquets being the backline in possession and none of them are speed demons.
Forget the mitigating issues. If he's too fecking stupid to work out how to play the players he has properly then he has to go.
If he can't see that with the team we've got we can't play the way he has us set up and refuses to change it then he's too fecking stubborn too.
It's an absolute joke to defend someone incapable of being pragmatic and bordering on suicidal with his tactics. There's no possible way anyone can say 'yeah this works' when we've stretched the team completely, gone half arsed in two ways that directly oppose each other - high press and very deep defence and then be happy as we concede 20+ chances every game.
It's no wonder we've got so many injuries when players are being asked to cover a stupid amount of space each because our front six and our back four are playing in different postcodes.
If we're saddled and cursed with injuries like we have been this year then go a different way and adapt to the players you have, not some idealised version that might never come true. And you might say we're not interested in understanding why United are where they are but it's been worrying since day dot that he's been happy to go along with signing Mount and not addressed areas that needed addressing. I fail to believe he had zero say in the matter, no matter how bad Murtough, Glazers, et al are.
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OK, list your options and rank them in likeliness. Also take into account other clubs that are looking. Give me your top6 candidates. Top quality options a plenty,Manchester utd top club in europa or conference..should be handy?
Beth would know feck all. She likely still thinks we signed the same Amrabat that played for Watford.
I know I agree. I wasn't quoting for Beth. It was Romano and the insider guy who I was quoting mainly.
They rarely if ever gave up possession. Maguire panic clears the ball into touch or straight to a Liverpool player even when he has a 10 yard radius around him. AWB is also terrible at carrying the ball out.
I already have mate, 99% of managers in football today are available to Man Utd with the salary we offer. I have no specific preferences as I've no idea what style of football Ratcliffe/Ineos want to implement at United.
They gave up possession as much as most top teams, the difference is that they regained possession faster than most due to an efficient pressing scheme at the loss of possession which was meant to create quick turnovers.
As an example look at the possession losses in 10/11 in La Liga.
The point that I'm trying to make is that many are only taking small parts of the issue when it's way bigger. Our issues are more about how and why than whom, there isn't a group of player that can make our system work with the way it is seemingly coached because every isolated choices made by the coach expose an other aspect of the system.
Fair enough. No stand out candidates for me anyways.
De zerbi is a bit meh.
Southgate laughable.
Potter can probably save his career or go like fat Frank,risky appointment.
Tuckel fell out at psg,Chelsea and turned Munich into laughing stock.
Nagelsmann failed at Munich, probably going back to munich
Motta the new hipsters choice.
Xabi even if he was leaving his club,wouldn't touch utd.
Zidane no interest in English football.
Amorim no little about,could be next Jose or AVB. Probably AVB cause Jose was the special one.
Where we at now,probably Gary o niell or mckennna..
2yrs ago we got erik,he was the Lord and saviour,beautiful football with ajax,winning leagues and unlucky not to have a cl final... does any of my list have the ten hag hype....
Looking at those comments it's definitely not bad on here
It does suggest our fanbase has a manager cult problem. There are people saying Ten Hag is doing wonders with this squad and those posts have like 800 upvotes. It can't be all opposition fans taking the piss.I could somewhat understand the attachment fans had with Jose and Ole. One is a legend of the game and one is a club legend. I genuinely can't understand what ETH has in him that so many people still support him over everybody at the club.
Spurs turned him down before we appointed him, didn't they? Turns out he was a lot of hype but how much of it was warranted?
Probably not but I don't really care, I think we need to stop looking for a manager to come in and be our saviour. If we're honest until Ineos we've been appointing managers in the hope they'll turn into the next Fergie as the football structure at the club has been laughably out of date.
For me losing a lead in a Champions League semi final to fecking Tottenham when you were cruising and losing 7-0 to Liverpool tells me the guy has a very low bar to sink to. When it goes wrong, if bloody goes wrong.
People have posted many times why they might not be gunning for ETH head, a lot of it not necessarily down to the manager himself. Some of you seem to be only able to see that as a complete endorsement/defence of the manager.
Since when has being unsure on something the trait of a cultist ? By definition a cultist has unquestionable faith in who they are following. Some of us are looking at the season in a more broader context of fitness, player dramas and club structures and asking how much of this has played a role in the season?
You deciding that none of these are relevant or are somehow ETH fault is your opinion. You choose to believe that. But you can’t be sure these sentiments are accurate. You could be right but you could be very wrong.
I’m happy to let INEOs make that call. I’m not convinced either way with ETH and feel the amount of mitigating factors leaves a question mark over his suitability. Another season, with less injuries , settled club , better football infrastructure , no player dramas would either confirm he’s as bad as this season looked or that the issues were a huge handicap. He may not get the chance to prove that, but it’s an interesting thought.
It was only ever relative hype. He was the exciting choice because the leading alternatives were Conte and then Bodgers. Everyone knows Ajax titles are as meaningless as Celtic titles.
Nagelsmann and Amorim have better cvs having won titles in better leagues. Potter and De Zerbi have done good work in the Premier League which counts for more than Eredivisie wins.
It was him or Poch no?
The last candidates were allegedly Pochettino and Ten Hag.
But does good work in PL like de zerbi out do titles with ajax and good CL campaigns like erik... has de zerbi even managed in CL... I've a lack of interest in research it.. as for amorim..ain't much between Holland and Portugal leagues. I wud hardly say better leagues. They are about par. To be honest I missed inzaghi off the list. But again he has a great reputation,but I fear for Italian managers in England. They often flop.
Exactly this, for me.
Ten Hag has signed 12+ players? He has? Because I think it's only really fair to judge him on the players that can play football for him. At present, that's Onana, Antony, Hojland, Eriksen and Casemiro. Mount shortly, but he is obviously not being rushed back after being injured all year. That's 6 players. Or are you blaming him for not bring on Sabitzer, Reguilon and Weghorst yesterday? I mean FFS why didn't he bring on Malacia when it was clear AWB was fading? What kind of manager is this! You know who coudl really have helped counter the press? Martinez. But ETH is too stupid to get him on the pitch for some reason.
I'm not sure how many times it has to be hammered home: the only reason Manchester United have spent so much under ETH is because the hierarchy is absolutely world class at being sh*t at transfers. All of ETH's first summer, it was clear he needed support, but they refused to budge. Then after losing and desperate to save face, they overspent massively on Antony and randomly bought Casemiro, presumably at the behest of his agent. Neither of those things should be a stick to beat ETH with.
Clearly we've not scored enough goals from the CF position this season. Is that:
a. ETH's fault for having terrible coaching
b. The fact we have an inexperienced 20 year-old as literally the only striker in the squad
Which I find highly ironic as Poch is managing a club that’s spent way more than United in a much shorter period of time and is doing worse.
Many believe Boehly is the main factor in Chelsea’s collapse since Roman left.
Mad how with Chelsea many people see that a shite owner can do massive damage in less then 2 seasons at a club but a decade of sh*t ownership at United is ignored when judging our managers. Chelsea also shows that spending massive money badly doesn’t mean a manager will have a better team for success. Yet “400 million spent by ETH” should somehow fix a decade of waste by United.
This is where I am at aswell. Well put
Honestly at this point it's becoming clear that INEOS have a similar decision making ability to the Glazers. If they haven't seen enough to know that this is completely unacceptable to a club like United, and they are fine with being a laughing stock then I would suggest that they don't appreciate what it means to be a big club.