Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[hobbers]

Okay

Like I said, you've clearly made up your mind and everything is ETH's fault, so no point I guess.

ETH is making the team so much less than the sum of its parts because his tactics and game management fecking stink. Why does this need to keep being pointed out when it's so blindingly obvious?

These things are entirely his fault.

Also, just like you everyone arguing to waste another season on ETH all want a squad overhaul.

The notion we're going to have a squad overhaul is as deluded as the notion ETH will do any better next season. We'll sign, at best, 3 players this summer. If we're lucky long term replacements for Varane and Casemiro and another forward. We're not signing enough worldies to be able to save his wretched system, especially when out of the CL this summer (and next summer if ETH stays).

 

[tenpoless]

Utter waste of time. A lot of time.

And this notion that we have to keep him because we're scared we might hire Southgate is getting tedious.

To be fair we are not exactly spoiled for choice so far. If more promising names start appearing and not only Southgate and Potter, the same people will change their tune very quickly. I think most have traumas with burning resources for the wrong managers. Sure we have INEOS now but its not like we are rich either at the moment. Have to be very careful in navigating both players and managers market. We cant keep trying out temp solutions and gamble, depriving ourselves of resources. We had a period where we could afford to do that but now not so much and it will only getting worse if we keep thinking short term.

 

[acid_fuji]

I get the same feeling immediately after a game especially after a bad performance where I carry on watching just to see what he has to say and almost always come out of it underwhelmed. But thinking about it a few days later, it's clear what is said to the media is as much about politics and keeping up morale as it is about anything else.

I think he realises there isn't much room for manoeuvre with regards to his position and needs his players on side. He will also surely be aware of how vicious and toxic the media are so maybe he's trying to starve them of content and soundbites.

Also, realistically, I'm not too sure there's much upside in him slating our performances in the media right now. There's a small chance they will react positively but I don't think the players are not trying, I just think some are tactically inept, others can't handle the physical demands, some have been run into the ground and a last group is barely match fit/playing through injury. They're also more likely to turn on him as has been the case many times before. I still think he can communicate a lot better but he's not english and in grand scheme of things probably insignificant. I can't be completely sure but I would imagine he is well aware when our performances aren't great.

Agree. Throwing your people under the buss publicly is bad management and he can’t do that. I’m pretty sure that if Carragher noticed the issue Ten Hag noticed it long time ago. To me he wants to go hard way with not revering back into players safe zone with low block and counter attacking which require less effort than the new style which obviously some of players would love to go back to. And he is even doing so with knowledge of what will happen if team presses badly and they gets bypassed with huge space. I don’t see any other way here.

I do think though that there are way of talking about things without pointing out fault etc. Surely at this level of management he should now that and surely he has advisor on what to talk (could be that this is advised by them?). Because of his presses he lost some of the fanbase.

 

[Fortitude]

And we’re now 7th.

 

[ItDoesntEvenMata]

Just saw that he has highlighted a new striker as his main priority this summer?

If nothing else, this confirms to me that he's completely clueless. A new striker to feed off the same scraps as the current one? His current plan is to improve us by exactly 0%.

The real confirmation of cluelessness/ insanity in this was him saying that we should have had enough goals this season:

Martial is hot and cold and Ten Hag cited that he'd played well in his first season, which only resulted in 9 goals

Hojlund was brand new and had scored 9 goals the season before

Rashford had a 30 goal season.

And Ten Hag expected that to be enough - they totaled 48 goals between them last season. Never enough

The guy is becoming deluded - can't complain about missing Varane, Shaw, Martial etc...history shows they'll be injured and not reliable so it's insane to go into a season pretending like they're all gonna now play 50 games a year

 

[Pyro19]

Is he sacked yet?

 

[hobbers]

And we’re now 7th.

If we lose today we won't see 6th place again this season.

 

[Remember the geese]

And we’re now 7th.

Welcome to Moyes Town.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Can't see him surviving a 0-4

 

[PoTMS]

Even 7th place flatters us. And there's people who still want to keep him.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

And we’re now 7th.

I predicted this a week ago

Let's see for the race to top 6.

Wolverhampton at 41 and I have them down for another 12 dead sure. They are good but erratic. Big games vs Arsenal, LFC, City. Today West Ham can bring 3 more. End result prediction: 53 - 56

Chelsea are at 42 pts but I have them down for 13 more dead sure. They are our number one danger. They also play Villa, Spurs and West Ham. If they win those it's nine more. End result: 55 - 64 pts.

Brighton is another erratic rival. 43 but they have a big run and I have them on only 6 dead sure more points. Still, they play us, and they are capable of a good run. End result: 49 - 54

Newcastle at 44 pts. I see them getting another 15 for sure and they are our number two big danger for our top 6 finish. They have some games where its hard to predict. End result: 59 - 64

West Ham at 45. I predict another 9 but it can go either way in a lot of games. Play LFC, City, Chelsea. End result: 54 - 57

I have us at another 12 points for sure but you never know. A draw vs LFC would do nicely. A win even better. We also can beat Arsenal but I did leave out that dream. Brighton away is going to be huge if Newcastle and Chelsea (our main danger) keep it up. Even then, Chelsea can beat us on points.

But Chelsea is even worse defending than us. They are bound to leave some points somewhere.

Wich leaves Newcastle. They need to lose 1 or two of my win predictions. Today against Fulham would be a good time for them to lose.

Top 6 and maybe a cup final will save Ten Hag for 24 25 I think. P7 and INEOS will try someone else regardless of performance.

Still, I think this is a good result. I had this game down as a win for Spurs. Since they have a hugely leaking defence - they have even more goals against than us.

I now alter Spurs end result with 66 points. They play Arsenal, City, Liferpool, Chelsea. Then they have 2 games left against Sheffield and Burnley.

Wich leaves us. If we win all our remaining games, we have 21 points, putting us 70 and definitly 5th. Our 2 big games in that run are against Arsenal and Newcastle. Maybe Brighton away but we will have some important people back for those 3 last games.

I say it's now or never guys! Tonight will tell a whole lot on our future. Newcastle can make us finish P7 if we fail, and then we have earned it. But also, we can fight and show what we are made of. Ten Hag, the players and us, we need to back them to make that extra gear. I have a very, very good feeling about this! Pretty, pretty good as Larry David would say. Lets win the winnable games, a draw or a loss vs Arsenal is to be expected. Then we just need to beat Howe and his magic band. We can and we should!

 

[hobbers]

"But we have a way we want to play, so we know our profiles, so it has to match the profiles we want."

For anyone who still thinks ETH will have his philosophy or system changed by people above him.

 

[Rossa]

His argument about people paying too much attention to results is baffling. If anything, the results are flattering.

 

[Sarni]

These things are entirely his fault.

Also, just like you everyone arguing to waste another season on ETH all want a squad overhaul.

The notion we're going to have a squad overhaul is as deluded as the notion ETH will do any better next season. We'll sign, at best, 3 players this summer. If we're lucky long term replacements for Varane and Casemiro and another forward. We're not signing enough worldies to be able to save his wretched system, especially when out of the CL this summer (and next summer if ETH stays).

If he had competent structured that hired him the coaches he needs to succeed he would not need to worry about tactics or game management. That is very clear and hopefully will be addressed by Berrada.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

It's driven by money and people don't intentially throw away their hard earned money based on the information they have.

2.44 Bournemouth vs 2.84 (current Betfair) isn't that close. The markets have cottoned on to the fact that conceding 30 shots per game isn't ideal for winning football matches.

We might well win but based on how we've been playing recently the odds aren't surprising at all. It just makes me laugh that people think they know better, (and one game won't prove that they do - before any I told you so's later on).

Conceding that many shots hasn’t indicated whether we will win or not. In many cases people are finding it hard to objectively assess United games.

People aren’t robots, most don’t bet by pure objective reasoning. On betfair exchange, I’d argue a lot of people betting on Bournmouth are banking on the odds narrowing closer to the game , particularly if United has a strongish looking team.

Betting on a match like this before the team is announced is adding an extra gamble variable. If United looks stronger and/or Bournmouth weaker, odds could shift a fair bit before kick off. Be interesting to see if odds change much.

Serious gamblers (ones that don’t chase losses) would not bet on the match odds of many United games. The erratic nature of our games don’t create value for serious gamblers.

 

[Leftback99]

His argument about people paying too much attention to results is baffling. If anything, the results are flattering.

Yep. Bizarre.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If he had competent structured that hired him the coaches he needs to succeed he would not need to worry about tactics or game management. That is very clear and hopefully will be addressed by Berrada.

Didn't he select these coaches.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

His argument about people paying too much attention to results is baffling. If anything, the results are flattering.

Yes, his results are not only flattering, they are good arguments for keeping him. We have a better defensive record than Spurs for instance. We should not be in the top 6 at all, according to @BenitoSTARR injury compariment list. P6 end result is good. P5 is overreaching. P4 is a dream and Ten hag should get a 10 year contract and a statue. I'd rename one of the stands into the Ten Hag stand if we make P4. Even P7 is normal.

 

[NoLogo]

His argument about people paying too much attention to results is baffling. If anything, the results are flattering.

That's the shocking part. I feel like in a lot of the games we were quite jammy to get anything out of it. If we would have just gone by performances I think he should have been sacked months ago, the only thing keeping him in a job were the results not being too awful, but that isn't the case anymore either. Now results and football are equally shite.

 

[Flying high]

These things are entirely his fault.

You've also blamed him for the signings and money spent. I'm not sure there's much left.

Also, just like you everyone arguing to waste another season on ETH all want a squad overhaul.

So you're happy with the squad? We just need a competent manager and we're challenging for the title? I doubt it.

Personally I don't want to waste the last 2 seasons and start again with either an inexperienced manager, or one that's failed before, or one that has to learn the PL. Are there any options that don't fall into at least one of those categories available?

The notion we're going to have a squad overhaul is as deluded as the notion ETH will do any better next season. We'll sign, at best, 3 players this summer. If we're lucky long term replacements for Varane and Casemiro and another forward. We're not signing enough worldies to be able to save his wretched system, especially when out of the CL this summer (and next summer if ETH stays).

We'll lose at least 8 players this summer. Sure, some of those haven't featured this year. But we need a lot more than 3 in, that's for certain. Whoever the manager is.

Saying you know exactly how many players we'll sign and your certainty about what will happen next season further emphasises your closed mindedness. So I'll leave you to it now.

 

[Leftback99]

Conceding that many shots hasn’t indicated whether we will win or not. In many cases people are finding it hard to objectively assess United games.

People aren’t robots, most don’t bet by pure objective reasoning. On betfair exchange, I’d argue a lot of people betting on Bournmouth are banking on the odds narrowing closer to the game , particularly if United has a strongish looking team.

Betting on a match like this before the team is announced is adding an extra gamble variable. If United looks stronger and/or Bournmouth weaker, odds could shift a fair bit before kick off. Be interesting to see if odds change much.

Serious gamblers (ones that don’t chase losses) would not bet on the match odds of many United games. The erratic nature of our games don’t create value for serious gamblers.

Anyone betting on Bournemouth wins by the odds narrowing (us being stronger), not lengthening.

Serious gamblers are betting on exchanges, successful ones will typically be banned from normal bookies.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Didn't he select these coaches.

Flew over your head, that one

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Flew over your head, that one

Very likely.

 

[FortunaUtd]

I predicted this a week ago



Still, I think this is a good result. I had this game down as a win for Spurs. Since they have a hugely leaking defence - they have even more goals against than us.

I now alter Spurs end result with 66 points. They play Arsenal, City, Liferpool, Chelsea. Then they have 2 games left against Sheffield and Burnley.

Wich leaves us. If we win all our remaining games, we have 21 points, putting us 70 and definitly 5th. Our 2 big games in that run are against Arsenal and Newcastle. Maybe Brighton away but we will have some important people back for those 3 last games.

I say it's now or never guys! Tonight will tell a whole lot on our future. Newcastle can make us finish P7 if we fail, and then we have earned it. But also, we can fight and show what we are made of. Ten Hag, the players and us, we need to back them to make that extra gear. I have a very, very good feeling about this! Pretty, pretty good as Larry David would say. Lets win the winnable games, a draw or a loss vs Arsenal is to be expected. Then we just need to beat Howe and his magic band. We can and we should!

Curb your enthusiasm..

 

[stefan92]

Very likely.

Everything Sarni writes about EtH is sarcasm these days.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Everything Sarni writes about EtH is sarcasm these days.

I am losing track of who is ETH and who wants him out.

 

[hobbers]

You've also blamed him for the signings and money spent. I'm not sure there's much left.



So you're happy with the squad? We just need a competent manager and we're challenging for the title? I doubt it.

Personally I don't want to waste the last 2 seasons and start again with either an inexperienced manager, or one that's failed before, or one that has to learn the PL. Are there any options that don't fall into at least one of those categories available?

Blamed him for money spent, happy with the squad, and just a competent manager from challenging for the title. A hat trick of this thread's favourite straw men there.

But the last part is the craziest. You dont want to "waste" the last 2 seasons?

We're about to finish 7th or 8th with negative goal difference and 20+ defeats. We were completely humiliated in the Champions League. The time has already been wasted. We've only gotten worse, Hag has taken us to our lowest point post-SAF. If we get rid of him nothing extra is wasted because he's only built failure.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I am losing track of who is ETH and who wants him out.

The ignore list takes care of that for me

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The ignore list takes care of that for me

I put someone on ignore earlier, but the pour soul may have just been sarcastic.

 

[NLunited]

Imagine putting people with positive takes ( wrong or not ) on the ignore list. A new low for this thread.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Very likely.

Most definitively

See this wonderful exchange from last week as reference

Yes. Will Omar Berrada tell ETH that it’s maybe not a great idea to play without a midfield and leave acres of space to pass and run into in our half?

No but he can give him more structure and support, for example hire assistant coaches that will take care of tactics so that ETH doesn’t have to do that.

Berrada’s and all other executive’s job will first and foremost be to ensure Erik ten Hag has everything he needs to succeed. If he fails at that then we hire a different CEO to build structure around ETH.

I see. And transfers will be taken away from him too which will help immensely. Then we’ll just need someone new to deal with man management and another one to do media duties and we’re almost there.

Players should not need motivation and if they do, they are wrong players.

And most definitely we should have PR experts to take care of media.

Suppose we’ll need one to take over training as well as that seems to be a bit of a problem area.

We should have coaches to take care of training, a manager should not even be involved in that.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Anyone betting on Bournemouth wins by the odds narrowing (us being stronger), not lengthening.

Serious gamblers are betting on exchanges, successful ones will typically be banned from normal bookies.

Exactly, you aren’t betting on Bournemouth winning, you are banking on the odds narrowing closer to the game.

Betting on United games is high risk because you are not betting on any sort of consistent pattern so it’s poor value.

 

[SirBillNic]

I predicted this a week ago



Still, I think this is a good result. I had this game down as a win for Spurs. Since they have a hugely leaking defence - they have even more goals against than us.

I now alter Spurs end result with 66 points. They play Arsenal, City, Liferpool, Chelsea. Then they have 2 games left against Sheffield and Burnley.

Wich leaves us. If we win all our remaining games, we have 21 points, putting us 70 and definitly 5th. Our 2 big games in that run are against Arsenal and Newcastle. Maybe Brighton away but we will have some important people back for those 3 last games.

I say it's now or never guys! Tonight will tell a whole lot on our future. Newcastle can make us finish P7 if we fail, and then we have earned it. But also, we can fight and show what we are made of. Ten Hag, the players and us, we need to back them to make that extra gear. I have a very, very good feeling about this! Pretty, pretty good as Larry David would say. Lets win the winnable games, a draw or a loss vs Arsenal is to be expected. Then we just need to beat Howe and his magic band. We can and we should!

At this point I'm actually looking forward to these games as a Spurs fan because they won't let us play our suicidal high line Angeball and we'll have to go back to what we're actually good at which is playing on the counter.

 

[Leftback99]

Exactly, you aren’t betting on Bournemouth winning, you are banking on the odds narrowing closer to the game.

Betting on United games is high risk because you are not betting on any sort of consistent pattern so it’s poor value.

If you've bet on Bournemouth winning how does us having a stronger team when line ups announced benefit?

 

[Salford_Red83]

If he had competent structured that hired him the coaches he needs to succeed he would not need to worry about tactics or game management. That is very clear and hopefully will be addressed by Berrada.

His coaching team was chosen by him.

Just, stop already.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

If you've bet on Bournemouth winning how does us having a stronger team when line ups announced benefit?

If you have bet on Bournmouth to win (that you make long before teams announced and you aren’t looking to take advantage of an expected shift in value) , you aren’t a serious gambler. There’s no value in that bet unless you hedge as odds drop. It’s effectively a long shot. Good gamblers see good value bets. You can’t predict United games on any metric.

So “United are outsiders” with the bookies simply suggests to me that there’s a lot of fun money being put on Bournmouth. Bournmouth aren’t lower odds because they are good, it’s because United are unpredictable. So you can’t crunch any decent numbers and get a reasonably reliable read on the game.

Home or away win double chance and both teams scoring are probably the best value bets if you look at how United games usually go.

 

[Santoryo]

Potter is a good manager, someone who sets up team to play proactive football but Southgate is miles below EtH. Poor 6-7 months doesn't mean somehow Southgate is at EtH level.

Same with Moyes, his terrible stint with ManUtd doesn't mean manager like Southgate is at Moyes level. He is miles below and if he has some sense then he should do everything in his power to stay as England manager for as much time as possible.

What exactly is ETH level? I'm not necessarily advocating for Southgate to United so let's get that out of the way but I'm curious as to where people get this idea that ETH is levels above the likes of Southgate. Ten Hag hasn't done anything to warrant being viewed levels above someone like Southgate. He's been a failure at United so far, his Ajax tenure in the league should be irrelevant to any sort of valuation given the innate dominance that comes with that team in their league and his Champions league run with Ajax could be likened to the cup runs Southgate has had with England where he'd reached a semi final and final in major competitions.

So what exactly put Ten Hag levels above the likes of Southgate?

 

[Lyng]

What exactly is ETH level? I'm not necessarily advocating for Southgate to United so let's get that out of the way but I'm curious as to where people get this idea that ETH is levels above the likes of Southgate. Ten Hag hasn't done anything to warrant being viewed levels above someone like Southgate. He's been a failure at United so far, his Ajax tenure in the league should be irrelevant to any sort of valuation given the innate dominance that comes with that team in their league and his Champions league run with Ajax could be likened to the cup runs Southgate has had with England where he'd reached a semi final and final in major competitions.

So what exactly put Ten Hag levels above the likes of Southgate?

That Ajax team want massive favourites to win the matches let alone the whole tournament. England's squad was. Southgate has been gifted an insane team and managed to fail.
I don't think Eth is the right man for us, but Southgate is proper shit.

 

[Leftback99]

If you have bet on Bournmouth to win (that you make long before teams announced and you aren’t looking to take advantage of an expected shift in value) , you aren’t a serious gambler. There’s no value in that bet unless you hedge as odds drop. It’s effectively a long shot. Good gamblers see good value bets. You can’t predict United games on any metric.

So “United are outsiders” with the bookies simply suggests to me that there’s a lot of fun money being put on Bournmouth. Bournmouth aren’t lower odds because they are good, it’s because United are unpredictable. So you can’t crunch any decent numbers and get a reasonably reliable read on the game.

'Fun money' being put on Bournemouth is nonsense. People want to win money, they'll pick the side they think will win. If anything the average clueless punter would be looking at the big club and thinking "that's worth a bet at higher odds".

 

[tjb]

What exactly is ETH level? I'm not necessarily advocating for Southgate to United so let's get that out of the way but I'm curious as to where people get this idea that ETH is levels above the likes of Southgate. Ten Hag hasn't done anything to warrant being viewed levels above someone like Southgate. He's been a failure at United so far, his Ajax tenure in the league should be irrelevant to any sort of valuation given the innate dominance that comes with that team in their league and his Champions league run with Ajax could be likened to the cup runs Southgate has had with England where he'd reached a semi final and final in major competitions.

So what exactly put Ten Hag levels above the likes of Southgate?

He's dutch and played attractive football in the Dutch League...in the same way Rodgers did at Celtic ( except Rodgers actually played had Liverpool playing good football).