Amrabat is quite poor, McTominay injured and not a CDM, and Mount is not a CDM either. We don't have many options and signing Mount was a terrible decision. And then you have Antony and Höjlund who are two other expensive signings who are underperforming along with Casemiro this season. It is a complete mess of underperforming expensive signings on top of Sancho, AWB and Maguire.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
People should have that in their heads already. SJR said that there was no quick fixes, that it will take several years. I think people need to dial down a bit. They have a plan and they will follow it
What a load of rubbish, you clearly don't have a fecking clue
Large scale turnover never really works, unless you're able to do a Chelsea under Roman and sign all the best players.
Utd have to try and reverse 10 years of overspending and overpaying for mediocrity. That's not a 1 or 2 year fix, even with SJR on board and a new manager, it's another 2-3 year job. Having half a team that don't fit where you want to be, is a recipe for disaster.
It really doesn't matter who comes in, Utd fans just have to be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better.
He also thinks if you criticise Onana, you're a De Gea fanboy.What a load of rubbish, you clearly don't have a fecking clue
Not the sharpest tool in the drawer.
Insulting another member
So you are a liar and coward.
Bruno can tackle.
Mount should have played his position.
Punched you in the balls but gave you a kiss
That's just the thing for me though, you can't do that at a club like United where you have one great season followed by absolute collapse due to injury or form, it just means you're not reliable. Players aren't robots and you can allow for a loss of form/injuries which is natural but good god- Rashford, Martial and Shaw have some history with this and the effects can last seasons with them. I will absolutely despair when we get a new manager and in two years time Rashford has another one of his 'off' seasons because 'reasons' or 'not happy' or whatever. It's so frustrating for fans.
Also, McTominay was given the chance to prove EtH wrong by the manager but we did want to sell him in the summer. Due to the injuries to Mainoo and Casemiro he played a lot more games than he should have, and to be fair scored a lot of important goals but feck me, how is he United class?
I think people's arguments are that the club DO need to sort the squad out but try to identify a system with the right players and the right recruitment and manager. In hindsight Ole's recruitment was pretty awful to be honest. EtH's probably not much better.
You’ve had an absolute ‘mare here with these posts. I understand emotions are running high, but a bit of common sense wouldn’t go amiss.
Firstly, we’ve heard more from SJR in the last three months, than we’ve heard from the Glazers in 19 years of ownership. Secondly, we’ve appointed Berrada already, who starts at the end of the season, and we are going to have Wilcox and Ashworth once compensation is sorted. Newcastle playing silly buggers only makes them look daft, not us. All the appointments are “best in class” and have been widely lauded in the media and across the fan base. Your exception noted.
Thirdly, SJR has already paid off 120m of our revolving credit facility, which while not touching the acquisition debt, just highlights that your claim about no movement on debt is patently false.
Fourthly, the idea that any off the field restructuring during the season will have any effect on fortunes on the pitch in the near term, is about as naive an expectation as I can imagine. The fact that the new minority owners have already let go the DoF, and CEO, as well as appointed a new - highly coveted - CEO and are closing on deals for a much heralded DoF and Technical Director - not to mention the new stadium task force in conjunction with the government and City of Manchester - is no shortage of proactive achievement in a very short space of time. In fact, one can say that this is the most focused and decisive United have been off the field in a very, very long time.
When talking about the debt, and the cost of a new stadium, it’s best just to admit that you know nothing about what the finance plans are. Because that’s what you know….nothing. None of us know what SJR plans to do about it or how a new stadium will be financed; but suffice to say it won’t be a case of finding a couple of billion down the back of the couch and paying off the debt as soon as he arrives. Least of all, to meet your preposterous expectations. What we do know is that we’ve had more information, more actual movement, and more communication from Ineos about revamping or replacing the stadium, then we’ve ever gotten from the Glazers. Again, in 3 months versus 19 years.
For a long time at United football decisions have not been made by football people. It’s been made very clear that this is going to change moving forwards, hence us going after the best football operations people we can identify. With that in mind, the decision on sacking the coach and who to replace him with, will most likely be made in concert with those key people. Not by the owner alone, and not without considerable forethought going in to what the long term vision is. I can only surmise from the limited intelligible content in your outrage, that you expect SJR to be vocal in the media about how bad results are and how low standards and performance are. Is that something you really want in a new owner? Lambasting the coach and players in public? He’s already made it clear that current standards and performance are well below what is acceptable at United and that his goal is to put us back on top; now is the time to let his actions do the speaking; not throwing a public fit. And in those terms, with his removal of Arnold and Murtough, and impending appointments of Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth, he is doing exactly that. Exactly what I would want to see from a serious owner, not talk or limb thrashing in the media.
SJR, I feel, has communicated very clearly that there is a strong strategic vision for United. A vision that is going to be driven by the results of the ongoing structural review, and the inputs of key football people. There won’t be any short term, knee jerk thinking; because that’s the last thing the club needs at this point, and no way to actually put the club back at the top. We’ve been told that the strategy is to identify the playing style, and appoint the best coach we can get to implement it; with an overarching structure controlling and evaluating recruitment, performance management, youth development etc., that remains constant despite coaching changes. That doesn’t happen overnight, but nevertheless appears to be happening very quickly.
It’s honestly hard to know whether to take your posts seriously or not. Or if you are just trolling. If those are your real thoughts, then I can only conclude that you are not a serious person, and/or don’t understand even basic organisational principles like strategic intent, let alone more complex facets like financial and managerial accounting, change management, strategic and structural analysis, operational excellence, resource allocation etc etc.
To save yourself a lot of heartache and headache, please internalise the reality that the success of an owner driven organisational change project should be measured in years, not weeks or months. Even by appointing a new coach, whether or not that can be deemed a success or failure, is likely to take at least 6-12 months.
I’m honestly completely baffled by your take on this, and have given you a longer response than your abomination of a post merited. I am not sold on whether Ineos will be god owners or not, it’s far too early to tell, but I do like what I see so far; especially in the context of what preceded them. In time they will be judged, but only when there is enough time and data to do so. Short of an oil rich state buying us and writing a blank cheque for the debt and a new stadium, I am not sure what more you could have wanted in the first three months of their ownership.
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His defenders will tell you that Chelsea is a mess which is true but they also ignore the fact that the man looked out of his depth at a big club. I got serious David Moyes vibes from him. His press conferences and interviews were a joke.
We started the rebuild 2 years ago, we were told then it would take 2-3 years, yet here we are. And I don't want to imagine it could get much worse than the shit we've been served up this season.
I'm not even going to waste my time answering your stupid question, if you don't realise by now how these things work then your to dumb to engage with so I'm not going to bother.
Yep, and some will also say he can't be worse than Ten Hag has been this season, as if this is some kind of reason to go for Potter.
Everything points to him been a disaster, and sadly I don't trust us not to go for him.
I don't disagree, but I doubt Rashford leaves anytime soon. Shaw will be here next season.
Traditionally we go for the guy the majority of Red Cafe want. The media darling of the year if you will. It would be very unlike us to go for someone like Potter (or Southgate) who the majority of Red Cafe do not even want to consider. If we follow old patterns it's going to be De Zerbi.
Yet you wrote out 4 lines in response
I think some people buy into new owners so much and believe that things change overnight. It’s going to be a process whether it’s sorting out the squad, touching the stadium or anything else
Yes, he seems like an utterly gormless individual and looked as out of his depth at Chelsea as Moyes did with us.
Newcastle want an unheralded amount of money and United are rightly prepared to bide their time. Calm your jets
They inherited a complete mess half way through the season. This season is not their mess. They've used the last three months to assess everything at the club from top to bottom which is absolutely the right thing to do. All necessary changes are coming and will be implemented hopefully in time for the summer. You say they haven't appointed anyone yet which is a lie. They literally hired a new chief executive who will officially arrive by the summer and the technical director will be hired within the next couple of weeks. Yes we're having to be patient for Ashworth but that's fine by me if he's as good as INEOS think he is then he's worth waiting for. If we can't come to an agreement with Newcastle then I'm sure they will have a plan B.
Did most of the people on here want Van Gaal or Jose? Genuine question, I don't remember.
I mean we don't even have the new structures in place yet ffs. Some seem to want ETH booted right now, but have absolutely no alternative in mind. I think the best time to sack him is the end of the season when hopefully we have new people on board in key positions at the club.
Which has happened. Sir Jim recently met face to face with Amanda Staveley.
And then people complain because we didn’t get best in class that we’ve been waiting on. Have patience.
thrashing out deals sounds like a measured and sensible approach tbf
Almost a foregone conclusion that ETH will pack his bags at the end of the season, at least in my opinion. INEOS will face intense pressure from fans if they keep him on. The margin between them being Glazer stooges and a ruthless football operations unit is a thin one.
Wow thanks for pointing that out GB, what would we do without you
You better believe it can get worse.
SAF was master of building balanced squads, he was always looking at where players would be in 2 or 3 or 4 years. It's why he was always ready to let players go even if from the outside it seemed like a crazy decision.
Now, if you just look at the age profile of the squad, break it down into the 3 categories he used and look at players you think are actually going to be able to play a part of a team capable of winning big trophies in 2-3 or 4 years.
Older 29+
Evans - 36
Casemiro- 32
Maguire - 31
Varane - 30
Bruno - 29
Lindelof - 29
Those players alone are going to need replacing over the next year or two. Bruno might get 3/4 years but the way he plays he could be burnt out by then.
Middle age 24- 28 - players you might expect to get 3/4 more years out of.
Onana - 28
Shaw - 28
Mount - 25
Martinez - 26
Rashford- 26
Antony - 24
McTominay - 27
Dalot - 25
AWB - 26
Malacia - 24
Out of those - you're realistically only seeing 3 or 4 as being capable players in a team wanting to challenge for trophies. Shaw is finished and needs to go, McTominay ain't good enough he needs to go, AWB same, needs to go. Still serious question marks over Rashford, Dalot, Malacia and Antony. Mount / Martinez / Onana again serious questions marks, but you could maybe see them having an impact.
Younger players 18- 23
Hojlund - 21
Mainoo - 18
Garnacho - 19
Kwabwala - 19
Amad - 21
There's a lot of potential there, but whether or not it can be realised depends on how the players in the above age groups are replaced, obviously you need a balance of all 3. But the upper age groups leave a hell of lot to be desired and young players need good leadership within the group and Utd don't really have that.
All in all, people don't like to hear the words rebuild or transition, but it's where Utd are, it's constantly half building a house, sacking the builder and starting again every couple of years because the foundations weren't laid right to begin with.
come on now this is ridiculous how can you expect the new owners to fix shit overnight
The season hasn’t even ended yet
Must have been hard to track down, she doesn't even see her own face when she looks in the mirror.
Probably because Newcastle weren't open to negotiating. Now we are getting closer to the summer and they need to hire a new director themselves and realise that having somebody on their books who isn't actively working for the club isn't the best idea when potentially facing FFP issues.
In fairness, she has been quite busy in court.
Hey, man. That's unfair. Alonso has got ideas, tactics and strategy. How's Erik meant to compete with that?!
I've stated for a months now that Erik has a ceiling that's very low when assessing his career whereas Xabi has proven to to be a tier above but will need some consistency in winning to really be recognized as elite.
Newcastle had to take that long when they appointed Dan Ashworth..
If you want the best in the world, you need to work for them.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-ashworth-to-join-sporting-director-brighton
Hard to understand united fans that are still defending ten hag. From the outside he should be fired for his recruitment alone and on top of that the on field performance this season has been a joke. Looking like a bottom table team in most games. You have many more points than you should which is crazy given that your 7th in the league.
Coach recruitment since SAF has been very strange as the only actual top shelf coach you have gone for in the 10 years since SAF is Mourinho. Strange for arguably top 5 biggest club in the world.
Coach recruitment since SAF has been very strange as the only actual top shelf coach you have gone for in the 10 years since SAF is Mourinho. Strange for arguably top 5 biggest club in the world.
He's got to go.
He better not be here come tomorrow morning, or else INEOS are full of shite.
The terms of all contracts and acquisitions are totally unique. Wilcox may well be sorted swiftly (how long were Liverpool and Bournemouth talking by the way?). Ashworth we are paying the price for someone in the middle of a big contract- was never going to busy.
I think you live in a dream world if you thought anything was going to be sorted inside 3 months.