Time + Arteta has made it to the media
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I was going to say something about maybe candidates not wanting to talk too much until United executives are free to talk to them. But wasn't it reported that City know and are fine with Berrada being heavily involved with United? He is the most important figure above even Ashworth.
To those who cannot wrap their head around him still being in the gig - there is little point to sacking him now rather than the end of the season. There would likely be a bigger payout now, for one. There would be the added headache of sourcing and appointing an interim manager. We also know by these players that will likely not react to an interim appointment and will continue to be dreadful just like with Rangnick. He is here until the season finishes and INEOS will allow him enough rope to hang himself.
Yes, that's the point. We messed up and put ourselves in bad spots but the players didn't gave up or demonstrated mental weakness. As far as I know mental strength isn't just about doing things well and only well, it's also about messing up maybe even messing up regularly and pulling yourself up and find the strength to fix it.
In fact from memory our standard issue was that we were generally structurally poor, the opposition would make us pay and our response was to create chaos and outgun the opposition.
The point isn't that we were good or highly flawed in many aspects but that the reason we had a good season in terms of result was largely due to a never die mentality. And we finished second.
Edit: To me under Ole we were all heart and no brain.
Time + Arteta + lots of money spent on transfers = 1 major cup won in his 1st season.
I can’t wait.
If we had nothing to play for, I'd agree. However, we've miraculously made a final and, in my opinion, our best chance of winning it is getting an interim manager in. We can give ourselves the hope of ending another depressing season on a high if we act quickly, which we're not going to do, but I personally think we should.
We have been giving managers power because the ones in charge had no idea what they were doing and presumed the managers did regarding recruiting players. The culture of going behind managers backs to the likes of Woodward has been going on since SAF left and there have been a couple of really high profile managers during that time. We created a culture of letting players having power on if a manager stays or goes and that should never be their choice.
The best scenario now is he somehow lucks the cup and then leaves the club. He will leave with two trophies in two years and can likely go back to Ajax and rebuild. That kind of trophy success would usually make me say give him another season, but what is happening on the pitch is just not good enough. Has there ever been a time where a manager turned around an awful team this far into the slide?
I still think he could turn up in a few years at a Bayern Munich and do well. Maybe the sort of club where all the pieces are already in place.
I still think he could turn up in a few years at a Bayern Munich and do well. Maybe the sort of club where all the pieces are already in place.
Agree there is no point. They now have to make sure they get the infrastructure in place and let them get on with their jobs regarding who a new managers is going to be if there is going to be one. I hope they have already made decisions on some of the players. If not they will just be wasting more precious time.
Nah. Would have been a big statement of intent that new management is here to set some standards. But no, let's plod on in the muck.
I don't see any issue with the setup for Rashford (and his form is has always been widely inconsistent), the midfielders fair enough but then again when you watch the game and they give the ball away cheaply or can't make 10 yard passes that's not a setup issue
Very few of them were relied upon last season
ETH is not our main problem but I don't see him as part of the solution either. He's stubborn, his man management is meah and I very much doubt that he had realized how physical the EPL is. That's clear with his obsession with short CBs, two no 10s in CM and inside forwards on the flanks
One can be anti ETH and anti players at the same time
One can be anti ETH and anti players at the same time
I didn't think Jim was the man, still don't, and he isn't proving me wrong the way he's handling ETH.
Regarding Rashford I don't either, I simply opened the question. If a team changes the way they play and a player has a drastically different production then the first question is about the obvious changes.
See people already giving Tuchel the same level of hostility as Potter and Southgate
I'm firmly in the 'the problems are both players and manager' camp but i mean, it's pretty brain dead and ridiculous if a bunch of players can't realise when to take the sting out of the game or when to speed up the tempo. You don't need a manager to tell you that at 3-0 up against a championship side. It's so basic.
I remember Wenger-one of the premier league all time greats- having problems with the idiocy of some of his later Arsenal teams that were winning games 4-2 or 4-3 or whatever and would collapse in the final few seconds when they had opportunities to take the ball to the corner and waste a bit of time.
You also have to ask questions if a player has drastically varied production over their career across multiple managers. You also have to ask questions if a players production is below that of less experienced players in the same setup.
The question I have is what is involved in the rebuild? How far off challanging do they think we are ? How many players in this squad will be here in 2 years? Which players have the character and mentality?
If Tuchel is explosive, how does he fit into a long term plan?
Totally. Which makes the answer not as simple as x is mentally fragile/strong. Good and bad performances are more likely due to a range of reasons.
I didn't say it was about mentality.
Some of the reasons are more obvious than others.
For instance Casemiro has been injured the majority of the season, and we saw Eriksens performances drop later half of last season when he returned from his long injury lay off. (His just doesn't have the engine any longer it seems)
This for me is a massive red flag. Not one cynicle foul , not one “injury” to slow play down. This has happened in alot of games where there isn’t one player with the intelligence to do something to breakup a wave of attacks/momentum. I’ve even coached some of the younger lads I’ve coached to do that.
I'm not denying that he's not fiery (look at the spat with Conte at Chelsea) but maybe we need someone who isn't afraid to shake these players up when they aren't performing. There seems to be no consequences for not putting in effort
Guy had people that have been in this thread defending him, wishing we’d lose the shoot-out yesterday.
It’s over.
It’s over.
I don't see any player in this world that has the engine to cover the midfield in our current setup. I don't even want to disagree with you because I don't know but the context that we have had all season is a setup that is by design uncoverable. But you could be right and these players engines would be insufficient in a balanced system.
Do we not need a rebuild now anyway? And what would be the point in hiring all these technical positions around the manager (DOF, Technical director, etc) if we're just going to let Ten Hag or the next manager rebuild the squad in their image? The new recruitment team are going to do all the hiring and firing from this point on so the managers position should be scrutinised for the actual managing, not all these intangibles and what ifs.
Ten Hag got lucky with Garnacho and Mainoo. Mainoo has been chased by City since before Ten Hag arrived and Garnacho was poached from Atletico Madrid after being identified as one of the best up and coming young talents in Europe, just before Brexit came into effect. These players would have succeeded regardless of who our manager was these last couple of years.
Thats a separate topic because the midfielders are not really supposed to cover all that space as the manager has already said. The defensive line and pressing instructions comes into to it, but given we have not even had a proper defensive line all season the manager should have adapted and he didn't.
Regardless we can compare players performances with others in the team in the same setup and its fair to say some of the experienced players have far underperformed compared to some of the younger players which is not acceptable.
Klopp struggled quite badly last season when he was also unable to achieve balance in the squad it can happen and not always be related soley on the setup, not to mention some of the themes we see span across more than one manager
Villa only need to win one more game and it will be mathematically impossible for us to get top 4. That's when ETH will be fired or at least announced to be at the end of the season.
Let the FA cup final be his last hurrah.
Let the FA cup final be his last hurrah.
A good manager finds a way to win games regardless of the selection issues. I've seen us beat Arsenal with a midfield filled with defenders. There's more than one way to play football but for some reason Ten Hag has convinced our fans that this is all that we're capable of and there's no other possible way to play, when the reality is that it's all that he's capable of because he's so one dimensional.
There's no reason for our forward line and defensive line to be so far apart, there's no reason for us to be so open in the middle. We don't have to set up defensively. Some of the most attacking football we've ever played was formed on the basis of a counter attacking side.
Weakness is actually bowing down to fan pressure, which Woodward and the previous regime were known for.
Team was 3-0 up with the opposition having had about 1 or 2 shots in the game, what happened after that wasn't about tactics
Saying that for the season you are correct, but it didn't really apply yesterday, that was total lack of discipline
I doubt there would be a bigger payout when we're mathematically one Villa win away from no CL football. There are many interims available, McLaren, Keane, Ole etc. Any one of them would gladly take the job for a few weeks. And the players reacted absolutely fine to Ole when he came in as interim, its almost like they will play for people who don't tell the media they all need replacing every week in the media.
And I'm not saying yesterday wasn't on the players, but the manager has no idea how to address these collapses either. They made one change and scored 4 goals, Ten Hag had no answer to it.
I'm not having that first paragraph. There is no scenario where you can tell me that the midfielders aren't supposed to cover all that space when it was already an issue during preseason and the manager made no adjustment, if he didn't make adjustments then it's what he wants.
And no team has the same setup.
That because it was not a tactical thing, watch the game again, players start doing their own thing is not tactical
Except his previous
He'd be a 2 year manager. Maybe the new sporting crew want someone a bit more long term. Plus we're never clearing the decks and starting from fresh with the squad in 1 window. I full expect numerous players just not getting the hint and sitting out their contracts, whilst causing issues in the dressing room. So Tuchel would have issues managing such an environment.
I'm probably in that camp to be fair. I've been a supporter to EtH throughout but at this point it's just so predictably bad and it seems like nothing is changing for the better.. just a continuation of chaotic football with a gaping hole in the middle. We were so naive against Galatasary and still yesterday against Coventry.. nothing has changed.
Knowing we'll get smashed by a dominant City, there's really no joy in reaching the final, so it was almost a case of just put us out of our misery and give Coventry a moment of glory.
I wish EtH could have fixed it but seeing how Garnacho is heading down the Sancho route (and f Sancho btw) I just don't wanna see any more damage to an already smashed squad. We're on our knees.
I hate the idea of Southgate but can see some logic, for example, I think we're more than a 2 year project, so perhaps just bring him in as the diplomat while our new structure figures out the transfer strategy and has a clear out and then look to bring in a Fergie v2.0 in a couple years time
I honestly also don't believe that this big midfield gap is what he wants, but that the defenders should play higher up to close it. Yet they don't, and it's understandable looking at the defenders United have, they are not really suited for that.
So I think he either accepts that the team can't play as he wants and just ignores the problem, or he doesn't accept it and is incredible weak as their manager because that would mean that (at least part of) the team doesn't do what he wants.
But in the end I guess it doesn't matter. If this is what he wants, he deserves to be sacked. If he accepts the holes in this formation despite actually not wanting to have them, he deservers to be sacked. And if the team isn't following him, well you guessed it, he also deserves to be sacked.
Does it matter what it is at this point? It has been happening the whole season with absolutely no viable solution in sight by EtH. As I said previously, being unable to address issues in your team is the major downfall of any top manager and this has be recurring issue for multitude of games