Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

[frostbite]

You are having a completely different discussion here.

This is the last thing I will write on this.

Sancho’s post on the internet was as follows:



The bolded starts with him saying he’s conducted himself well in training, which you could argue is a difference of opinion. Him saying that he believes there are other reasons, and that he has been scapegoated for a long time, however, cannot. That is him calling out ten Hag, and saying that ten Hag’s stated reasons were false and that he had other undisclosed reasons for omitting him from the squad. Call that what you want, but it’s not just a fanciful inference to say that this is him making a charge that ten Hag is lying.

These are the facts, and news outlets agree and have characterized it as him hitting back at ten Hag with this post, and some also use the same phrasing as me, saying that it is calling ten Hag a liar.

Any other points you’re bringing up about ten Hag’s handling of this is a response to points I haven’t made, and have nothing to do with what you called me a liar for stating.

If you have any issues with that then your problem is with the English language, and I can’t be any more tediously clear about why I wrote what I wrote.

There’s nothing more for me to say on this point.

Sancho wrote: I will not allow people saying things that is completely untrue.

A lot of people on the internet said a lot of bullshit, like: he was always late, he does not try, he plays videogames, he is lazy, he is a failure, and so on.

Now read the rest of his post. Can you try to interpret everything as if he is talking about some negative fans, who complained about him with Rangnick, too? I can.


Anyway, that's not the main problem. We expect that Ten Hag is "the adult in the room" because he is the manager. So, for me, the main problem is that Ten Hag was not able to resolve the whole thing quietly. On the contrary, he made it worse. He started it, then he felt necessary to finish it, so he demanded a PUBLIC apology, which is humiliating for any human being. Why? Because he has an inferiority complex. It is the same underlying reason that also made him create problems with Ronaldo, De Gea, Varane, Casemiro, who are all model professionals. He is just not a good man manager.

I don't care about Sancho. I care about ETH, who is a bad manager. I don't want to waste another year with him. The Sancho incident is just one example of his many failures. He is stubborn, he is too old to learn, he will keep doing the same mistakes over and over. Get rid.

 

[frostbite]

These are the facts, and news outlets agree and have characterized it as him hitting back at ten Hag with this post,

And obviously the "news outlets" want a fight between Sancho and ETH. They will certainly try to add fuel to the fire.

Unfortunately, ETH wasn't smart enough to avoid the trap.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

The situation is very simple. Sancho is a world class talent. Most of us even feel the pressure representing our school/local clubs, let alone played a MOTM performance in CL Semi Final, the biggest stage in world football. This prove that he has a strong mentality, skillset and technical abilities to succeed at the pinnacle of football. He has also proved that in his first stint with Dortmund.

Sancho works well in Dortmund because they know how to use him, whereas, Man Utd (post SAF) have a long history buying superstars but have no idea how to use them. The situation is worse now because ETH style of play is non-existent. Even Rashford find it hard to play ETH's second season tactics.

It's very clear it all depends on who is the manager next season. If ETH stays we should sell Sancho. If a new manager comes in and would like to get Sancho back we should bring him back to give it a try again. Ole and ETH didn't properly use Sancho and Rangnick stint is too short and he reverted to counter attack football once the players refused to run and press whole match to play his system.

In a fluid attacking system, Sancho could work. Hopefully after the FA Cup the decision on the manager will be clear. IMO, hopefully we get a new manager who knows how to use him. We can't sell him for high price due to his wages and out of the team (fallout with ETH) for so long. We also have a lot of other area to prioritise to strengthen.

 

[90 + 5min]

Sancho wrote: I will not allow people saying things that is completely untrue.

A lot of people on the internet said a lot of bullshit, like: he was always late, he does not try, he plays videogames, he is lazy, he is a failure, and so on.

Now read the rest of his post. Can you try to interpret everything as if he is talking about some negative fans, who complained about him with Rangnick, too? I can.


Anyway, that's not the main problem. We expect that Ten Hag is "the adult in the room" because he is the manager. So, for me, the main problem is that Ten Hag was not able to resolve the whole thing quietly. On the contrary, he made it worse. He started it, then he felt necessary to finish it, so he demanded a PUBLIC apology, which is humiliating for any human being. Why? Because he has an inferiority complex. It is the same underlying reason that also made him create problems with Ronaldo, De Gea, Varane, Casemiro, who are all model professionals. He is just not a good man manager.

I don't care about Sancho. I care about ETH, who is a bad manager. I don't want to waste another year with him. The Sancho incident is just one example of his many failures. He is stubborn, he is too old to learn, he will keep doing the same mistakes over and over. Get rid.

You mentioned that before. I wonder what kind of problems did tenHag create towards Ronaldo? Casemiro? Varane? DeGea? Everybody knows why Ronaldo wanted to leave. Nothing to do with tenHag. It is only something people make up afterwords.

You need to step away talking about players being disrespected. It is like hearing 13 year old demanding respect but have no idea what it is. You say that we expect tenHag to be adult in the room. I expect players to be that too. Something that they have not been showing and what have contributed to our poor positions. They are getting tons of money to perform. Not to boost their own name, brand or whatever. We can’t have managers being sacked every other year.

 

[TsuWave]

Arriving late seems to correlate quite strongly to staying up late playing FIFA. Generally sleep is quite important for recovery and it's well within the club's / manager's rights to demand that the players sleep well and show up on time.

Anyway, it was being treated as a minor disciplinary issue until he chose to act like a baby and blow it up himself.

Am I missing something? Ten Hag's issue with Sancho wasn't about supposedly being late to training - and it reads as though people are position it as such so they can point to his time at Dortmund as corroboration (which would be a bad faith/dishonest stance)

this is what Ten Hag said:

"On his performance on training we didn't select him," Ten Hag said when asked about Sancho's absence from the squad. "You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line, so in this game he wasn't selected."

But within an hour of Ten Hag's comments in the postmatch news conference, Sancho issued a statement on X to reject claims he said were "completely untrue."

"Please don't believe everything you read! I will not allow people saying things that is completely untrue," Sancho posted. "I have conducted myself in training very well this week."

 

[stefan92]

Am I missing something? Ten Hag's issue with Sancho wasn't about supposedly being late to training

I think it might have happened under Ole, as Matic mentioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if EtH made very quickly very clear that he wouldn't tolerate that and Sancho respected it. I think when Sancho regularly had been late for EtH's training sessions he would have mentioned it as a reason to suspend Sancho. But he didnt

 

[DSG]

You could make a pretty strong argument that Sancho and the successful reintroduction to the squad is more important to us than the continuation of Ten Hag as manager.

Sancho is a 73m asset. Or at least, that’s what we paid.Ten Hag’s worth just 6.67m — what we would pay him if we sacked him.

I wonder if the new incoming manager would want want Sancho in the squad? I would think so.

If I look at this through the lens of Sancho, he was supposedly our starting RW, then Ten Hag splashes 80m on Antony, and is personally invested in Antony’s success. Despite being better than Antony, Sancho is on the substitutes bench.

That’s some piss poor squad management by Ten Hag!

 

[VP89]

You could make a pretty strong argument that Sancho and the successful reintroduction to the squad is more important to us than the continuation of Ten Hag as manager.

Er no. Sancho is an unprofessional gobshite and that's irrelevant of Ten Hag.

 

[cpresc]

You could make a pretty strong argument that Sancho and the successful reintroduction to the squad is more important to us than the continuation of Ten Hag as manager.

Sancho is a 73m asset. Or at least, that’s what we paid.Ten Hag’s worth just 6.67m — what we would pay him if we sacked him.

I wonder if the new incoming manager would want want Sancho in the squad? I would think so.

If I look at this through the lens of Sancho, he was supposedly our starting RW, then Ten Hag splashes 80m on Antony, and is personally invested in Antony’s success. Despite being better than Antony, Sancho is on the substitutes bench.

That’s some piss poor squad management by Ten Hag!

Spoken like a true Glazer..

"think about the value of the asset!"


What incoming manager?

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

You could make a pretty strong argument that Sancho and the successful reintroduction to the squad is more important to us than the continuation of Ten Hag as manager.

Sancho is a 73m asset. Or at least, that’s what we paid.Ten Hag’s worth just 6.67m — what we would pay him if we sacked him.

I wonder if the new incoming manager would want want Sancho in the squad? I would think so.

This logic is so bizarre it’s difficult to even respond to.

4d posting, superb

 

[DSG]

Spoken like a true Glazer..

"think about the value of the asset!"


What incoming manager?

Hey now. Be kind.

 

[Eriku]

You could make a pretty strong argument that Sancho and the successful reintroduction to the squad is more important to us than the continuation of Ten Hag as manager.

Sancho is a 73m asset. Or at least, that’s what we paid.Ten Hag’s worth just 6.67m — what we would pay him if we sacked him.

I wonder if the new incoming manager would want want Sancho in the squad? I would think so.

If I look at this through the lens of Sancho, he was supposedly our starting RW, then Ten Hag splashes 80m on Antony, and is personally invested in Antony’s success. Despite being better than Antony, Sancho is on the substitutes bench.

That’s some piss poor squad management by Ten Hag!

Regardless of Ten Hag’s future with us, Sancho getting to walk back into the squad will feel like the tail is wagging the dog. Would set a terrible example of player power.

 

[DSG]

This logic is so bizarre it’s difficult to even respond to.

4d posting, superb

Thanks.

Is it difficult to imagine Ten Hag getting sacked given his results? Since The problem was between Ten Hag and Sancho and Ten Hag is out of the picture, could Sancho come back into the squad? If he did and put up a 10 goal /10 assists season under a new manager, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

 

[DSG]

Regardless of Ten Hag’s future with us, Sancho getting to walk back into the squad will feel like the tail is wagging the dog. Would set a terrible example of player power.

I think we took the ETH/Sancho row as Sancho’s fault. Ten Hag has said a number of things in the media recently that have made me question his grip on reality. Is it possible that Sancho was treated unfairly and deserves another shot?

 

[Eriku]

I think we took the ETH/Sancho row as Sancho’s fault. Ten Hag has said a number of things in the media recently that have made me question his grip on reality. Is it possible that Sancho was treated unfairly and deserves another shot?

EtH is in a tough situation right now, and sounds delusional, sure.

Doesn’t change the fact that he gave Sancho special treatment in the hopes of him getting his head straight, and he blew up at a innocuous comment and displayed a huge lack of professionalism, and a lack of respect to the club. feck ten Hag, this isn’t him vs Sancho for me. Sancho has shown in a myriad of ways that he’s not willing to do what’s expected of a United player. Hell, any player of any team in a top division team on massive wages.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We can’t have managers being sacked every other year.

Yes.....of course we can. If there is enough reason. The players performed just fine last year.

 

[DSG]

EtH is in a tough situation right now, and sounds delusional, sure.

Doesn’t change the fact that he gave Sancho special treatment in the hopes of him getting his head straight, and he blew up at a innocuous comment and displayed a huge lack of professionalism, and a lack of respect to the club. feck ten Hag, this isn’t him vs Sancho for me. Sancho has shown in a myriad of ways that he’s not willing to do what’s expected of a United player. Hell, any player of any team in a top division team on massive wages.

That’s fair. We don’t know. If we are done with him, the better he plays for Dortmund or us or hopefully on loan in the PL, the more he is worth when we sell him.

I honestly don’t think Sancho has had an easy time of it. Comes in, Ole crumbles, Ralf changes everything and fails, Ten Hag buys Antony… To be fair, if he’d delivered with performances, we wouldn’t be here. Looked damn good v PSG though…

 

[Hammondo]

Er no. Sancho is an unprofessional gobshite and that's irrelevant of Ten Hag.

He's not though, he's not proven to be either.

 

[Hammondo]

EtH is in a tough situation right now, and sounds delusional, sure.

Doesn’t change the fact that he gave Sancho special treatment in the hopes of him getting his head straight, and he blew up at a innocuous comment and displayed a huge lack of professionalism, and a lack of respect to the club. feck ten Hag, this isn’t him vs Sancho for me. Sancho has shown in a myriad of ways that he’s not willing to do what’s expected of a United player. Hell, any player of any team in a top division team on massive wages.

Oh yea, what did he do?

 

[DJ_21]

How much do we reckon we’re getting for him this summer? I’d tell them to keep him if they send Adeyemi our way.

 

[JJ12]

He's not though, he's not proven to be either.

His professionalism was in question at City, Dortmund first go around and United. It's absolutely proven.

Don't want him back, hope he continues playing well so we can sell at a decent fee.

 

[DJ_21]

That’s fair. We don’t know. If we are done with him, the better he plays for Dortmund or us or hopefully on loan in the PL, the more he is worth when we sell him.

I honestly don’t think Sancho has had an easy time of it. Comes in, Ole crumbles, Ralf changes everything and fails, Ten Hag buys Antony… To be fair, if he’d delivered with performances, we wouldn’t be here. Looked damn good v PSG though…

Ye and he’s got age still on his side so he’s still worth quite a bit. I don’t think we should have ever signed Antony, Sancho should have made that RW his own, I think we was just desperate for a left footed RW. We certainly bought sancho for the right since we had Rashford and Martial for the left and now Garnacho but even Garnacho put in a few decent performances on the right.

 

[Eriku]

That’s fair. We don’t know. If we are done with him, the better he plays for Dortmund or us or hopefully on loan in the PL, the more he is worth when we sell him.

I honestly don’t think Sancho has had an easy time of it. Comes in, Ole crumbles, Ralf changes everything and fails, Ten Hag buys Antony… To be fair, if he’d delivered with performances, we wouldn’t be here. Looked damn good v PSG though…

For sure, I’d like for potential suitors to see his value, I’m not that pissed at Sancho that I’d want him to fail for spite but Antony for all his shitness at least runs his socks off, whereas Sancho mostly looked like coasting. Seems like he’s trying more at Dortmund than he did for us, though I haven’t followed him closely.

Yeah, I feel sorry for a lot of players getting their move to United since Fergie left, for sure. I’d maybe have a tiny bit of faith in Ten Hag under a new board and a season without drama and injuries, but him trying to paint a delusional smiley face on our form is what makes me want him out.

 

[afrocentricity]

A talking to and an agreement, a fine, internal disciplinary and that kind of thing....


Why ask for a public apology? And then freeze him out.... Weird

 

[VP89]

He's not though, he's not proven to be either.

He actually has. You should probably read up more on Sanchos antics predating Ten Hag's arrival.

Ten Hag's open criticism of Sancho came after he gave the guy a 3 month break to get his head space right and protected him and his potential impact for us whilst doing so. It's not even like he didn't try the arm round the shoulder before giving the stick.

 

[Plant0x84]

On the contrary, he made it worse. He started it, then he felt necessary to finish it, so he demanded a PUBLIC apology, which is humiliating for any human being.

Disagree. I think he was calling out Sancho to light a fire under him. It was supposed to be a kick up the ass for the player, and the extra scrutiny it would have bought from fans and media would have further driven Sancho to up his performances.
Instead Sancho chose to sulk, and whinge on social. I think an apology was the right thing to do for the player but he chose to run and hide instead because he has a weak mentality. In that scenario I think the manager was right to assert his authority and stand his ground.
It was never a ‘public apology’ either. It would have clearly been reported on but the apology would have been in the privacy of Erik’s office and between the two men.

 

[Dec9003]

Two people that haven’t proven they deserve to be at a club of this stature, we should be skeptical of both imo.

 

[Rightnr]

Two people that haven’t proven they deserve to be at a club of this stature, we should be skeptical of both imo.

Only right answer.

I hope Sancho absolutely smashed it in the remaining CL matches and Dortmund win the competition again.

Then he can pay for his ticket out of OT and the new manager hopefully can use the money.

 

[NLunited]

I think Sancho has shown he doesn‘t belong here with his attitude. Bringing him back would probably be a big mistake.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Thanks.

Is it difficult to imagine Ten Hag getting sacked given his results? Since The problem was between Ten Hag and Sancho and Ten Hag is out of the picture, could Sancho come back into the squad? If he did and put up a 10 goal /10 assists season under a new manager, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

You’re forgetting he was poor on the pitch, where it counts, and throwing in contract values, which doesn’t for a successful team.

I’ve either read your post wrong or it was strangely constructed.

You’ve followed up with a complete straw-man, that isn’t remotely based on performances for us or dortmund.

Not having a go at you personally, but it reads kind of strange (to me).

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the bank holiday weekend, hopefully we’ll having something to smile about Monday

 

[Lyng]

Sancho is still crap, playing against a PSG with no one tracking back is exactly what made him look good initially at Dortmund - playing in acres of space against farmer defenders.

Sell him for £30m and move on. But we won't, the United circus of not one person having a clue when it comes to footballing talent will continue. Once upon a time we could pluck Nani and Anderson out of thin air, nowadays we pay £80m for wide players that would struggle playing for Burnley

Let me get this straight, are you calling the PSG defenders farmers?

 

[sepulturite]

A talking to and an agreement, a fine, internal disciplinary and that kind of thing....


Why ask for a public apology? And then freeze him out.... Weird

The only weird thing here is your constant defence of him. I'm not even that big a ETH fan, but he was spot on with Sancho, his attitude stunk the place out and clearly had been going on for a while. Apologising really isn't a big deal.

 

[DSG]

Ye and he’s got age still on his side so he’s still worth quite a bit. I don’t think we should have ever signed Antony, Sancho should have made that RW his own, I think we was just desperate for a left footed RW. We certainly bought sancho for the right since we had Rashford and Martial for the left and now Garnacho but even Garnacho put in a few decent performances on the right.

Agree. Antony has been wank. Weird move by the club

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Sancho wrote: I will not allow people saying things that is completely untrue.

A lot of people on the internet said a lot of bullshit, like: he was always late, he does not try, he plays videogames, he is lazy, he is a failure, and so on.

Now read the rest of his post. Can you try to interpret everything as if he is talking about some negative fans, who complained about him with Rangnick, too? I can.

I had a genuine try at what you said and I agree that the first part can be interpreted as Sancho talking about the media/fans. E.g.

"Please don't believe everything you read [in the media]! I will not allow [these media] people saying things that is completely untrue."

But I read on as you suggested and I can't get my head around how the next part can be interpreted as Sancho still talking about the media/fans, given that he posted this an hour after a press conference where ETH said that Sancho hadn't been training well.

"I have conducted myself in training very well this week. I believe there are other reasons for this matter that I won't go into, I have been a scapegoat for a long time which isn't fair!"

Genuine question, how do you interpret the first sentence here as anything but Sancho directly responding to ETH's comments on his training performance?

The only possible explanation I can think of is that Sancho just read some quotes and didn't watch the press conference, then made the post thinking the quotes were made up. I don't know if you or anyone is claiming that but it's the only explanation from what you've said that might make sense. Otherwise, Sancho is not talking about the media/fans there, he's talking about ETH in this paragraph. If he knew ETH had commented on his poor training when he made this post, then he's not just responding to the fans/media, he's responding to ETH.

But if this weird situation is true, then what would Sancho be referring to in the next sentence "I believe there are other reasons for this matter that I won't go into.." ? I can't come up with anything that makes sense there, so it seems to me it's more likely that Sancho is disagreeing with ETH's comments about his training performance, knowing that ETH made those comments, then going on to say ETH is scapegoating him. If Sancho was talking about fans/media in this specific paragraph, how would it make sense?

 

[NLunited]

I had a genuine try at what you said and I agree that the first part can be interpreted as Sancho talking about the media/fans. E.g.

"Please don't believe everything you read [in the media]! I will not allow [these media] people saying things that is completely untrue."

But I read on as you suggested and I can't get my head around how the next part can be interpreted as Sancho still talking about the media/fans, given that he posted this an hour after a press conference where ETH said that Sancho hadn't been training well.

"I have conducted myself in training very well this week. I believe there are other reasons for this matter that I won't go into, I have been a scapegoat for a long time which isn't fair!"

Genuine question, how do you interpret the first sentence here as anything but Sancho directly responding to ETH's comments on his training performance?

The only possible explanation I can think of is that Sancho just read some quotes and didn't watch the press conference, then made the post thinking the quotes were made up. I don't know if you or anyone is claiming that but it's the only explanation from what you've said that might make sense. Otherwise, Sancho is not talking about the media/fans there, he's talking about ETH in this paragraph. If he knew ETH had commented on his poor training when he made this post, then he's not just responding to the fans/media, he's responding to ETH.

But if this weird situation is true, then what would Sancho be referring to in the next sentence "I believe there are other reasons for this matter that I won't go into.." ? I can't come up with anything that makes sense there, so it seems to me it's more likely that Sancho is disagreeing with ETH's comments about his training performance, knowing that ETH made those comments, then going on to say ETH is scapegoating him. If Sancho was talking about fans/media in this specific paragraph, how would it make sense?

The fact was that Sancho was underperforming for a long time.

Perhaps Sancho felt he was ‚scapegoated‘ because there were other poor performers?

In any case , his reaction to not being selected was immature to say the least. The right reaction would have been to train harder and get his performance levels up.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Rio also said Tevez wasn't good in training but like everything, as long as you are good on pitch, everything is fine.

Sancho wasn't even good on pitch.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

EtH is in a tough situation right now, and sounds delusional, sure.

Doesn’t change the fact that he gave Sancho special treatment in the hopes of him getting his head straight, and he blew up at a innocuous comment and displayed a huge lack of professionalism, and a lack of respect to the club. feck ten Hag, this isn’t him vs Sancho for me. Sancho has shown in a myriad of ways that he’s not willing to do what’s expected of a United player. Hell, any player of any team in a top division team on massive wages.

Exactly, he could be ronaldinho at dortmund or not, here his mistakes were all just basic things. And thats all that matters to united fans. He can take ETH with him and both can FO.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

The fact was that Sancho was underperforming for a long time.

Perhaps Sancho felt he was ‚scapegoated‘ because there were other poor performers?

In any case , his reaction to not being selected was immature to say the least. The right reaction would have been to train harder and get his performance levels up.

Underperforming in a system that doesn't suit him. A manager with a fluid system could work. Hence, if new manager comes in he might be back.

Under Ole, Rangnick and ETH we rely more on individual brilliance rather than fluid team play.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Two people that haven’t proven they deserve to be at a club of this stature, we should be skeptical of both imo.

Absolutely, let the new manager decide. Sancho can't play ETH's style of play. Even his own signings Antony can't do it. So not sure who to blame here.

 

[vanrooney]

Of course he could play in eths system. The problem was his discipline. And eth was right to punish him as our squad discipline is one of the biggest problems in the last years.