F1 2021 Season

11101 said:
That's experience for you. Lewis has learned by now it's better to live to fight another corner than bin it trying to get past at all costs. You'd think after 7 seasons Max was starting to figure that out too. As Karun says in the clip, if Max hadn't done that in Silverstone he'd be 18 points ahead now.
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100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
 
telstar96 said:
100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
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How many other times other than those times have they genuinely been wheel to wheel racing? It seems like if they ever get close to one another it’s always an incident. I get your overall point but it’s a bit of a straw man to suggest that this isn’t somehow a discussion topic because the season is so long.
 
telstar96 said:
100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
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Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There's a high possibility of skullduggery this weekend. Max is supposed to be the future of F1 and his failure to beat the geriatric version of Lewis in a faster car will seriously undermine any future attempts to hype him up as a superstar, especially given he's such a sour and charmless character. I've got a feeling the brand will have to win above all else.
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Geriatric version
Faster car

You're doing great .
 
Fridge chutney said:
Hamilton does not come from money. Nor do Vettel or Ocon who both had working class backgrounds.

But what sets Hamilton apart is that he also had to overcome racism, starting as early as his childhood, in his struggle to make it in F1 - being black in a sport made for elite white people was very difficult. In that sense he has broken many barriers on his journey to become the greatest F1 driver of all time.

He is an inspiration for many.
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I think Albon didn't always have it easy either (again based on Drive To Survive). Looks like a pattern. :)
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There's a high possibility of skullduggery this weekend. Max is supposed to be the future of F1 and his failure to beat the geriatric version of Lewis in a faster car will seriously undermine any future attempts to hype him up as a superstar, especially given he's such a sour and charmless character. I've got a feeling the brand will have to win above all else.
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I love that the state of this thread makes some people actually bite on this :lol:

Well done.
 
Cheimoon said:
I think Albon didn't always have it easy either (again based on Drive To Survive). Looks like a pattern. :)
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Yes, he went through a tough time at stages of his career and development. Glad he'll be back next year.

I always prefer/have a soft spot for the non-money drivers, so i was disappointed that Bottas pipped Ocon to third in Jeddah (even though i like Bottas!).
 
Balljy said:
Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
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Max has driven 140 Grand Prix, he should be basically fully matured as a race driver by now.
 
Ah no Kimi :( not what you want on your last race.

sun_tzu said:
Soft tyres look to be holding up well (hamilton set fastest time so far on a 6 lap old set)

2 stop race? softs for quai and swich to mediums around half way?
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That would still be a 1 stop if they hold up well.

i'd imagine it'll be medium/hard though.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Yes, he went through a tough time at stages of his career and development. Glad he'll be back next year.

I always prefer/have a soft spot for the non-money drivers, so i was disappointed that Bottas pipped Ocon to third in Jeddah (even though i like Bottas!).
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Yeah, me too. Like, Sainz seems like a genuinely nice guy, but then I see what his family does on a day off, and I just can't really root for him anymore. It's a sort of underdog thing I guess.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Designing a powerful engine within the rules of F1 is now referred to as "cheat mode".

What a joke. That is a core part of the sport, always has been throughout F1 history.
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Lighten up precious. Don't be such a melt.


slyadams said:
It might then be a fine line between "reckless racing" and "deliberate shunt", but really its akin to a kid swinging their arms and walking around "I'm going to do this if I hit you its your fault". If Max drives so recklessly he takes someone out, at what point do you basically say "its deliberate".

Its the same as handball, there are times where its handball even though the player doesn't actually deliberately moves their hand to the ball, but the concept is "if you put your hands above your head in the box you're taking an action where a handball becomes a realistic outcome, so its deliberate".
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I don't remember this level of hysteria when Lewis and Rosberg were doing all of this stuff to each other.
 
Jippy said:
The Hamilton-Rosberg crashes were analysed to the nth degree too. It was hilarious when they took each out though.
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Oh yeh they were but there wasn't so much of this pearl clutching going on. Ham fans were all very happy back then to see a driver defend like a maniac, not caring one iota if he took out his team mate and fecked over his team.
 
hobbers said:
Oh yeh they were but there wasn't so much of this pearl clutching going on. Ham fans were all very happy back then to see a driver defend like a maniac, not caring one iota if he took out his team mate and fecked over his team.
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Probably not, but there were some pretty vocal Rosberg fans. A lot people seem to have warmed to Lewis over the years as he's become older and less of an arrogant prick or at least are more neutral on him.
He was pretty widely disliked back then and obviously still is by some.
 
Ah we have reached the re-writing history phase, Rosberg vs Hamilton was nowhere near like this, they had incidents yes and there were some questionable moves but nothing like we have seen this season.
 
Leg-End said:
Ah we have reached the re-writing history phase, Rosberg vs Hamilton was nowhere near like this, they had incidents yes and there were some questionable moves but nothing like we have seen this season.
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We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
 
hobbers said:
We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
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From the whole of Rosberg vs Hamilton please name me incidents that have come close to what Max pulled just at the last race?

I'll help you because you will reference Spain 16 and probably Austria 16 as well. When did Lewis or Nico ever brake test each other?
 
hobbers said:
We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
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I think most people would consider brake testing as being beyond the pale, as was what Schumacher did. Rosberg/Hamilton never descended to that level.
 
I still find it fecking insane that Max only got a 10s penalty for brake testing last weekend
 
sewey89 said:
I still find it fecking insane that Max only got a 10s penalty for brake testing last weekend
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It was obviously done as Hamilton still won and they wanted to make the final race a real showpiece.

It's tricky as they could/should have thrown the book at him, but then the final race would have had no weight to it.

I'm happy for them to both have a fair chance of winning as long as they're both understanding that there is ZERO shenanigans this weekend.

The sport is riding a wave of new followers right now and they can't afford any BS to happen.
 
So assuming a max/lewis 1-2 in qually, which position would have the inside line on the first corner (obviously dependent on an equal start).

I would not like to be Hamilton on the outside line.
 
Dan_F said:
So assuming a max/lewis 1-2 in qually, which position would have the inside line on the first corner (obviously dependent on an equal start).

I would not like to be Hamilton on the outside line.
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He and the Mercedes are fast enough that it doesn't matter IMO.

Barring something crazy happening, Merc has it in the bag.
 
Balljy said:
Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
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He's had over 100 races which is more than most drivers F1 career will ever be.

People need to stop using his age an excuse for his overly aggressive driving. He's never going to change the way he drives when he knows most drivers would yield and he gets away with it.
 
NM said:
He and the Mercedes are fast enough that it doesn't matter IMO.

Barring something crazy happening, Merc has it in the bag.
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I know what you’re saying, but we saw in the last race that this doesn’t mean that he will just fly off before the first corner.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Wait a minute, so if Hamilton dnf's and Max is dq'd, Max is champion?!
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Barring penalties, yes. But the FIA have basically said that if max purposely runs Lewis out of the race then he’ll be docked points
 
sewey89 said:
I still find it fecking insane that Max only got a 10s penalty for brake testing last weekend
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Because the FIA and most people, outside of Hammy fans, didn't think it was brake testing.

Any braking on a straight in the middle of a race is by definition erratic, which is what they said in their statement. They didn't say it was a deliberate attempt to brake check. The penalty obviously reflects that.
 
hobbers said:
Because the FIA and most people, outside of Hammy fans, didn't think it was brake testing.

Any braking on a straight in the middle of a race is by definition erratic, which is what they said in their statement. They didn't say it was a deliberate attempt to brake check. The penalty obviously reflects that.
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Norris begs to differ.
 
hobbers said:
Because the FIA and most people, outside of Hammy fans, didn't think it was brake testing.

Any braking on a straight in the middle of a race is by definition erratic, which is what they said in their statement. They didn't say it was a deliberate attempt to brake check. The penalty obviously reflects that.
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Would be interesting to see people’s opinions if the 10sec pen had meant a demotion in position. Maybe there wouldn’t be strong allegations of brake checking?

Reminds me a bit of Silverstone. Since Lewis’s pen was insignificant then, all these nonsense allegations of Lewis punting Max off deliberately began to surface. Had the pen meant something, I think the reaction afterwards would’ve been different. It’s funny how the FIA’s judgement at time was that the outcome of an incident shouldn’t dictate the severity of the penalty and now they’re saying the complete reverse. Really shows how inconsistent they’ve been all year.
 
hobbers said:
Because the FIA and most people, outside of Hammy fans, didn't think it was brake testing.

Any braking on a straight in the middle of a race is by definition erratic, which is what they said in their statement. They didn't say it was a deliberate attempt to brake check. The penalty obviously reflects that.
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Hmm..
 
telstar96 said:
Would be interesting to see people’s opinions if the 10sec pen had meant a demotion in position. Maybe there wouldn’t be strong allegations of brake checking?

Reminds me a bit of Silverstone. Since Lewis’s pen was insignificant then, all these nonsense allegations of Lewis punting Max off deliberately began to surface. Had the pen meant something, I think the reaction afterwards would’ve been different. It’s funny how the FIA’s judgement at time was that the outcome of an incident shouldn’t dictate the severity of the penalty and now they’re saying the complete reverse. Really shows how inconsistent they’ve been all year.
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Yeah, definitely agree with this.

The punishment for causing a collision/crash unintentionally for whatever reason this season has been set at a 10 second time penalty.

I think there'd be less ill feeling all round if that penalty was higher. Hamilton should have had a 10s stop-go at minimum for Silverstone. Max should then have had an equivalent penalty last Sunday, albeit it would have been in retrospect so probably a grid penalty for the next race.
 
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