F1 2021 Season

Jippy

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Got a feeling something will happen, maybe Lewis gets a puncture or Mercedes screw up strategy, and we'll have Max parading round as the winner with a lot of other drivers congratulating him through gritted teeth.
 

RepardReece

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Sums up their run-ins well. If Hamilton had a similar driving style to Max, all these would've been crashes.
 

RoadTrip

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Wtf is this post. Also Mercedes have much faster car, especially in last few races, but also generally this season. Just look at standings for their respect second drivers and one couldn't be bothered to drive and the other is trying to prove himself.
This is just not true. But you keep on living in your cuckoo land.
 

Adam-Utd

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Sums up their run-ins well. If Hamilton had a similar driving style to Max, all these would've been crashes.
Pretty much sums it up.

Max always brakes too late to stop Hamilton turning in, then understeers wide and forces them off the road.

I don't know for sure but i'd imagine he was ahead in the points in pretty much all these scenarios? It's a do or die mindset.

I still think he should have pulled out at Silvestone also, once you lose the inside of the corner (especially a high speed one) an accident is always going to happen if you try to force it around the outside.

Anyway, hopefully we get no bad incidents this weekend.
 

mitChley

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Got a feeling something will happen, maybe Lewis gets a puncture or Mercedes screw up strategy, and we'll have Max parading round as the winner with a lot of other drivers congratulating him through gritted teeth.
This thread :lol:

I wonder if Red Bull will really go for it and turn their engine up for 11. Death or glory approach. Either win or blow the engine up.
 

11101

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Sums up their run-ins well. If Hamilton had a similar driving style to Max, all these would've been crashes.
That's experience for you. Lewis has learned by now it's better to live to fight another corner than bin it trying to get past at all costs. You'd think after 7 seasons Max was starting to figure that out too. As Karun says in the clip, if Max hadn't done that in Silverstone he'd be 18 points ahead now.
 

Buster15

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Pretty much sums it up.

Max always brakes too late to stop Hamilton turning in, then understeers wide and forces them off the road.

I don't know for sure but i'd imagine he was ahead in the points in pretty much all these scenarios? It's a do or die mindset.

I still think he should have pulled out at Silvestone also, once you lose the inside of the corner (especially a high speed one) an accident is always going to happen if you try to force it around the outside.

Anyway, hopefully we get no bad incidents this weekend.
Is it driving style from Max or is it driving tactics.
He does it because he believes that he will get away with it.
There is late braking which is driving style.
But this is different.
It is going into a turn pretty much with the car over the point of adhesion with the absolute intention of going wide and thereby forcing Hamilton in this case off the track.
 

Buster15

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Got a feeling something will happen, maybe Lewis gets a puncture or Mercedes screw up strategy, and we'll have Max parading round as the winner with a lot of other drivers congratulating him through gritted teeth.
I have exactly that concern myself.
I just think that events will conspire against Hamilton one way or another.
Truly hope I am wrong though.
 

Adam-Utd

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Is it driving style from Max or is it driving tactics.
He does it because he believes that he will get away with it.
There is late braking which is driving style.
But this is different.
It is going into a turn pretty much with the car over the point of adhesion with the absolute intention of going wide and thereby forcing Hamilton in this case off the track.
I'd say it's both really. His style is naturally aggressive and that shows with his over takes too (which is why he made his name)

I don't think the FIA have helped though, they should have stamped this out a long time ago and told him that sort of defending isn't OK.

They've let him carry on to the point that he and his fans actually think this is 'proper racing' :lol:
 

STaphouse

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Wtf is this post. Also Mercedes have much faster car, especially in last few races, but also generally this season. Just look at standings for their respect second drivers and one couldn't be bothered to drive and the other is trying to prove himself.
Up until the last few races, I'd say that the Red Bull has been better than the Mercedes over the course of the season.

The 2nd driver stuff is also bs. Bottas is much better than Perez and that 2nd Red Bull seat is notoriously difficult anyway.
 

telstar96

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That's experience for you. Lewis has learned by now it's better to live to fight another corner than bin it trying to get past at all costs. You'd think after 7 seasons Max was starting to figure that out too. As Karun says in the clip, if Max hadn't done that in Silverstone he'd be 18 points ahead now.
100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
 

RoadTrip

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100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
How many other times other than those times have they genuinely been wheel to wheel racing? It seems like if they ever get close to one another it’s always an incident. I get your overall point but it’s a bit of a straw man to suggest that this isn’t somehow a discussion topic because the season is so long.
 

Balljy

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100% it's experience. I think many forget that Lewis was fairly hot-headed when he was Max's age (2011 Hamilton vs Massa, an almost comical battle). It wasn't until he moved to Mercedes that he started to become a lot calmer. Hopefully, Max will trend in a similar way.

However, I've seen a lot of people, inc Karun, saying Max could've backed out in Silverstone and he'd be 18 points ahead now. In my opinion, Max's aggression is the reason why we have a title battle. Everyone was loving the fact that he was taking the fight to Lewis earlier on in the season but now it's being used to criticise him. It's bizarre. I will agree that in Brazil, Monza and Saudi, Max went too far but overall he's towed the line. It's crazy how a 22 race season is being condensed to just a handful of incidents when analysing what may happen in the finale.
Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
 

The Firestarter

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There's a high possibility of skullduggery this weekend. Max is supposed to be the future of F1 and his failure to beat the geriatric version of Lewis in a faster car will seriously undermine any future attempts to hype him up as a superstar, especially given he's such a sour and charmless character. I've got a feeling the brand will have to win above all else.
Geriatric version
Faster car

You're doing great .
 

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Hamilton does not come from money. Nor do Vettel or Ocon who both had working class backgrounds.

But what sets Hamilton apart is that he also had to overcome racism, starting as early as his childhood, in his struggle to make it in F1 - being black in a sport made for elite white people was very difficult. In that sense he has broken many barriers on his journey to become the greatest F1 driver of all time.

He is an inspiration for many.
I think Albon didn't always have it easy either (again based on Drive To Survive). Looks like a pattern. :)
 

KirkDuyt

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There's a high possibility of skullduggery this weekend. Max is supposed to be the future of F1 and his failure to beat the geriatric version of Lewis in a faster car will seriously undermine any future attempts to hype him up as a superstar, especially given he's such a sour and charmless character. I've got a feeling the brand will have to win above all else.
I love that the state of this thread makes some people actually bite on this :lol:

Well done.
 

Fridge chutney

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I think Albon didn't always have it easy either (again based on Drive To Survive). Looks like a pattern. :)
Yes, he went through a tough time at stages of his career and development. Glad he'll be back next year.

I always prefer/have a soft spot for the non-money drivers, so i was disappointed that Bottas pipped Ocon to third in Jeddah (even though i like Bottas!).
 

slyadams

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Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
Max has driven 140 Grand Prix, he should be basically fully matured as a race driver by now.
 

Adam-Utd

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Ah no Kimi :( not what you want on your last race.

Soft tyres look to be holding up well (hamilton set fastest time so far on a 6 lap old set)

2 stop race? softs for quai and swich to mediums around half way?
That would still be a 1 stop if they hold up well.

i'd imagine it'll be medium/hard though.
 

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Yes, he went through a tough time at stages of his career and development. Glad he'll be back next year.

I always prefer/have a soft spot for the non-money drivers, so i was disappointed that Bottas pipped Ocon to third in Jeddah (even though i like Bottas!).
Yeah, me too. Like, Sainz seems like a genuinely nice guy, but then I see what his family does on a day off, and I just can't really root for him anymore. It's a sort of underdog thing I guess.
 

hobbers

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Designing a powerful engine within the rules of F1 is now referred to as "cheat mode".

What a joke. That is a core part of the sport, always has been throughout F1 history.
Lighten up precious. Don't be such a melt.


It might then be a fine line between "reckless racing" and "deliberate shunt", but really its akin to a kid swinging their arms and walking around "I'm going to do this if I hit you its your fault". If Max drives so recklessly he takes someone out, at what point do you basically say "its deliberate".

Its the same as handball, there are times where its handball even though the player doesn't actually deliberately moves their hand to the ball, but the concept is "if you put your hands above your head in the box you're taking an action where a handball becomes a realistic outcome, so its deliberate".
I don't remember this level of hysteria when Lewis and Rosberg were doing all of this stuff to each other.
 

hobbers

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The Hamilton-Rosberg crashes were analysed to the nth degree too. It was hilarious when they took each out though.
Oh yeh they were but there wasn't so much of this pearl clutching going on. Ham fans were all very happy back then to see a driver defend like a maniac, not caring one iota if he took out his team mate and fecked over his team.
 

Jippy

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Oh yeh they were but there wasn't so much of this pearl clutching going on. Ham fans were all very happy back then to see a driver defend like a maniac, not caring one iota if he took out his team mate and fecked over his team.
Probably not, but there were some pretty vocal Rosberg fans. A lot people seem to have warmed to Lewis over the years as he's become older and less of an arrogant prick or at least are more neutral on him.
He was pretty widely disliked back then and obviously still is by some.
 

Leg-End

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Ah we have reached the re-writing history phase, Rosberg vs Hamilton was nowhere near like this, they had incidents yes and there were some questionable moves but nothing like we have seen this season.
 

hobbers

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Ah we have reached the re-writing history phase, Rosberg vs Hamilton was nowhere near like this, they had incidents yes and there were some questionable moves but nothing like we have seen this season.
We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
 

Leg-End

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We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
From the whole of Rosberg vs Hamilton please name me incidents that have come close to what Max pulled just at the last race?

I'll help you because you will reference Spain 16 and probably Austria 16 as well. When did Lewis or Nico ever brake test each other?
 

slyadams

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We hit that phase when you typed that whopper out.

People either have shit memories, are ignorant, or are just transparently disingenuous I guess. Was only a few pages back someone was actually trying to claim Schumacher was a saint of a driver compared to Max. The same guy who got DQ'd from an entire championship for properly side swiping Villeneuve in the last race.
I think most people would consider brake testing as being beyond the pale, as was what Schumacher did. Rosberg/Hamilton never descended to that level.
 

sewey89

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I still find it fecking insane that Max only got a 10s penalty for brake testing last weekend
 

Adam-Utd

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I still find it fecking insane that Max only got a 10s penalty for brake testing last weekend
It was obviously done as Hamilton still won and they wanted to make the final race a real showpiece.

It's tricky as they could/should have thrown the book at him, but then the final race would have had no weight to it.

I'm happy for them to both have a fair chance of winning as long as they're both understanding that there is ZERO shenanigans this weekend.

The sport is riding a wave of new followers right now and they can't afford any BS to happen.
 

Dan_F

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So assuming a max/lewis 1-2 in qually, which position would have the inside line on the first corner (obviously dependent on an equal start).

I would not like to be Hamilton on the outside line.
 

NM

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So assuming a max/lewis 1-2 in qually, which position would have the inside line on the first corner (obviously dependent on an equal start).

I would not like to be Hamilton on the outside line.
He and the Mercedes are fast enough that it doesn't matter IMO.

Barring something crazy happening, Merc has it in the bag.
 

elmo

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Yeah, Hamilton has become less aggressive as he's matured. He was similar in some ways to Max when he was younger, although I think Max hasn't really shown that he can go side by side with a car for a few laps without an incident yet which Hamilton had definitely shown by 24.

Agreed with the point about the title race though. It's very easy to say Max would have been 18 points ahead if he had backed out at Silverstone, but he wouldn't have kept the lead in any of the other incidents so who knows what position they would have ended up in during those races.

I haven't got a huge issue with Max's aggressiveness as a lot of drivers are that way at the start of their career, where I have an issue is that he doesn't seem to be improving it at all but maybe he'll learn if he loses this title chance. The best F1 to watch is two quick drivers going side by side over multiple corners like Lewis and Alonso have done for years. Both of those give each other space to do that and it is really the pinnacle of the sport going 140mph into corners with an inch between the cars and Max hasn't really shown that yet due to his style.
He's had over 100 races which is more than most drivers F1 career will ever be.

People need to stop using his age an excuse for his overly aggressive driving. He's never going to change the way he drives when he knows most drivers would yield and he gets away with it.