You would think, but then Eriksson jumped into the new car and instantly went quicker than Mick I think. So probably won't be as tough as we think.
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Quite right.
It was interesting to read the Secret Aerodynamasist article on the BBC website. It could be that Mercedes could make some relatively simple changes in order to improve the floor edge sealing. That could allow them to slightly increase the floor height to an extent that the downforce does not stall.
I would be surprised if it takes more than a couple of races to resolve their problems.
People pay way too much attention to testing times, you need to look at the GPS data (which we don't have) and the body language of the cars to get an idea. Mercedes have hidden performance every single year since they got competitive and roll up at Race 1 competitive and everyone goes "how can they keep getting away with it!"
I do actually think for once they may be 3rd in the pecking order but would I be surprised if they win on Sunday? Not even a little. The issues they appear to have could be fixed with one update, the trouble is you can't replicate the issue in a wind tunnel environment so they probably have to keep trying things until they find something that just works, could be 1 race, could be half a season but they will fix it.
I do actually think for once they may be 3rd in the pecking order but would I be surprised if they win on Sunday? Not even a little. The issues they appear to have could be fixed with one update, the trouble is you can't replicate the issue in a wind tunnel environment so they probably have to keep trying things until they find something that just works, could be 1 race, could be half a season but they will fix it.
Agreed, I realized in my original message I had a typo, I meant to say the same as you, they'll get it sorted within a few races.
This is only partly true. Whilst its true they could not reproduce the issue in the wind tunnel, if they have managed to nail down what they think the cause is then they don't need to reproduce the whole scenario in the wind tunnel. The need to test the new part(s) do what they expect in the tunnel and then, if their original theory was correct, they can test on the car.
Formula 1 has kept its DRS zones unchanged for next week's Bahrain Grand Prix, the first race of the sport's new generations cars.
F1 has relied on the same three DRS zones for several years now, with the system covering the areas between Turn 1 and Turn 4, Turn 9 and Turn 11 and finally on Sakhir's main straight.
Grand Prix racing's new technical regulations were devised to help cars follow each other more closely, which in turn should help overtaking.
In pre-season testing, most drivers gave F1's new regs a thumbs up in this regard. But only a full-scale test conducted on a race weekend will validate, or not, F1's new design concept.
For now, F1 has retained its Drag Reduction System, but the system could be dropped in the future if F1's ground effects aerodynamics prove successful in producing sling-shot passes and boosting the spectacle on the track.
Interestingly, several drivers reported during testing a reduction of the slipstream effect when running close to a rival car
"We can follow closer but from what we have seen, the slipstream effect is definitely less effective," commented Mercedes' George Russell. "We will have to wait and see."
https://f1i.com/news/434755-f1-leav...Nvujisvq44jtUzZIN3T5T2Gi_cjC7nzXb8JnrOa68bCfM
F1 has relied on the same three DRS zones for several years now, with the system covering the areas between Turn 1 and Turn 4, Turn 9 and Turn 11 and finally on Sakhir's main straight.
Grand Prix racing's new technical regulations were devised to help cars follow each other more closely, which in turn should help overtaking.
In pre-season testing, most drivers gave F1's new regs a thumbs up in this regard. But only a full-scale test conducted on a race weekend will validate, or not, F1's new design concept.
For now, F1 has retained its Drag Reduction System, but the system could be dropped in the future if F1's ground effects aerodynamics prove successful in producing sling-shot passes and boosting the spectacle on the track.
Interestingly, several drivers reported during testing a reduction of the slipstream effect when running close to a rival car
"We can follow closer but from what we have seen, the slipstream effect is definitely less effective," commented Mercedes' George Russell. "We will have to wait and see."
https://f1i.com/news/434755-f1-leav...Nvujisvq44jtUzZIN3T5T2Gi_cjC7nzXb8JnrOa68bCfM
Good post, I dont normally take that much notice of test, TBH dont know why I did this year.
Any problem will already be sorted, with the new floor or within a few races.
Correct but it would be quicker to resolve if they could reproduce it in a test bed environment, so until then its based on theory between wind tunnel and on track results. None of these teams are dumb, I'm pretty sure its an issue we won't even be talking about after a few races, I am already sick of the word porpoising.
Just had a look at the Miami F1 track layout, looks incredible! Hope it's not narrow like the saudi arabia GP was, as I can see a ton of overtakes going on there.
Which way will they go round the circuit and will they lift for 10?
corners 1 then 2 then 3 etc
as for 10 I assume that might be flat out given the ground effect cars will get better downforce the faster they go (assuming they dont porpoise?)
Isn't that basically what's happening? If you have someone at work who makes regular errors, you take them out of the high pressure environment in order to give them the coaching and training you suggested. As for Masi being a nice guy, I'm not so sure. It's easy to be nice when things are going smoothly, but whenever he cocked up his response was to get catty, deflect, and try to pass on the blame.Everyone mentions this Spirit of the Rules/Regs like it's written in stone somewhere, maybe on the backend of Moses Ten Commandments, but, try looking for it. The last race of the year proved that where there's wriggle room that makes the game fairer for one, but not the other..they'll take it thank you very much. No, let's not return to last season.
The thing with any referee is that they will over a season make decisions that don't favour you, and some that do, we say quite often, well it evens out over the race or the season, but as has been said, and by you Masi needed a buffer, and not just between him and Toto and Horner. He is a nice guy, he could have done with some help and sometimes we see a guy at work who makes the odd error and we say, 'let's give him some coaching, maybe a bit of training, he's worth it overall'. That could have been the case.
No, the Spirit of the Regs was heard more often and carried more weight before F1 became so professional, so expensive, so technical, probably back in Jack Brabham's day
As for the the rest of your post, I'm afraid I don't really get what point you're trying to make in order to agree/disagree. I don't mean that offensively. Still, as you say, last season is done, and the FIA has been proactive in order to prevent a repeat travesty, which has been great. Looking forward to seeing who's fastest.
Thanks for sharing, has the Abu Dhabi feel, especially with that long straight. Seems like a longer lap time than the average too?
For the first part it's just different takes or different approaches, it's all a done deal so no matter.
For the second part maybe you will have to google Spirit of the Rules or Within the Spirit of the Rules, sure - no offence, but if you don't understand it don't worry about it, it doesn't mean anything these days anyway although people like to quote it. F1 isn't a Gentleman's sport anymore, scrutineers don't have it as a numbered item on the list of things to check under the hood anymore.
perhaps one of the longer laps then as its supposed to be one of the quicker f1 circuits
https://live.planetf1.com/f1-gp-tracks/miami
Makes sense. On the lifting I would think not since it has to be one of the drs zones.
Thanks for that info. I am looking forward to seeing Russell against Verstappen in similar performance cars. Hopefully the new floor will fix some of the porposin issues. Do you know if there were enough new floors for more than one car and were there any spares?
How do the Mercedes Sidepods Work? - Aerodynamic Analysis
not sure... probably wont find out anybody's true pace till the last 5 mins of quai 3 on saturday
Gut feel is that all f1 teams have dealt with proposing with previous genertions of cars and its a known phenonium... will impact different teams differently at different circuits so they will probably be looking t multiple floors (ike they have multiple front and rear wing set ups) or they will want a floor that can be reconfigured to suit a circuit (probably the best long term solution given the limited modeling, wind tunnel times and budgets)
Thanks for this, will have a proper read this evening. At first glance, looks like a circuit from.the past that i cant place (old age).
Kyle is fantastic. As a ex-mercedes aerodynamist for 17-19 seasons he really knows his stuff.
Thats a good and valid point about circuit specific floors. Hadnt crossed my mind. Would be expensive to do, though i could see specific floors for places like Monaco and Singapore etc.
I can see this being a working option.
Found this, now not sure how true this is.
The intricacy of the designs of Formula One floors and bargeboards translates into a combined amount of approximately $141 000.
I dont see it being a prohibitive cost, to have race specific floors.
there is something to take from testing times if you understand context and dont just pluck it from the sky. Its why nobody is saying Haas is gonna challenge for a world title. I have watched that mercedes during testing last week, it looked like it would struggle to keep with the mclaren. Lewis times on the last day were long runs and it was merely ok in context of everything. It looks unbalanced and there is just no wow factor to it. Ferrari on the other hand looks really really good and the redbull also looks fantastic. Redbull had some very good long run times. Mercedes are again on the back foot like they were last year. Its a long season they are a mega team and can catch up like they eventually did to the RB last year. The times are uselful if you have all the context of times, historical data, track conditions and people on the ground relating back how the car is performing in certain KEY corners.
You’d hope George isn’t just going to Mercedes to be Hamiltons bottas bitch.
I'm really hoping the Ferrari doesn't flatter to deceive this weekend!
So much positivity about this year's car and with a great driver lineup it would be fantastic to see them properly challenge the top two
So much positivity about this year's car and with a great driver lineup it would be fantastic to see them properly challenge the top two
Yeap. You are constantly learning something new with his videos
He's the long term replacement, but I feel this next season will be about learning and supporting. He won't be Hamilton's bitch, but I don't doubt they'll swap the cars if needs be, no different to Max and Perez.
I'd hope, after all that time propping up Williams, if he's in a title-winning car this season he'd go for it himself.
He grew up watching Hamilton, he should remember how Hamilton was in 2007 and 2008. World champions don't tend to play bitch roles at any stage of their careers.
One thing I definitely expect is he will out-qualify Hamilton a lot more than Bottas did, so team orders might become a very big Merc issue very quickly.
Mercedes will definitely favour Hamilton over Russell this year. That will be obvious to everyone. They need to help him get title no7. Sure Russell wont mind having a learning year to get used to the team. If the title (and i doubt it would) came to a straight fight between Russell and Hamilton, Mercedes would use team orders for sure in Hamiltons favour. Theres a wrong from last season that needs to be righted. If thats the correct word. Not just for Hamilton and Mercedes but for the sport itself. I hope Hamilton and Mercedes can make it happen.
Gary Anderson and Mark Hughes i think did some analysis for the The Race website and he had HaaS as 5th-6th quickest team over the latest test. RedBull were first followed by Ferrari, then Mercedes and Mclaren.
These two know their stuff, i dont know of they were given access to any GPS data, but interested to see of their analysis was correct.
Miami GP track onboard (sim) with George Russell
Theres a budget cap now, so they will still have to be careful with spend. The teams will be desperate to ensure that they can keep their floors hidden from cameras for as long as possible. Dont want to bin or beach the car this weekend and have it hoisted onto a recovery truck. The entire world will see your floor.
Number 8.
Perhaps, but by that rationale I expect Perez to be battling Max? Of course, I believe Russell is significantly faster than Perez so perhaps that comparison doesn't start up too much to scrutiny. Another way to look is that George can use this year to learn all he can from Lewis, the greatest driver of all time. If it turns out George is miles ahead of Lewis then Merc will support him, but I don't see that happening and it would be a strange set of circumstances this year for Merc to not try to optimize a single driver to right the wrongs of last year, and that will be Lewis by default. I'm 100% sure that George will have been briefed on all this.
Exactly, I'm sure George has been thoroughly briefed on what to expect. Lewis might have said "once I've got the 8th, I'm done". That would motivate George to do all he possibly can to keep everyone else but Lewis behind him this year so that next year its all his.
Red Bull are lucky because Perez is quite poor in quali, and has been all his career. His strength is all in his racecraft. Barring penalties or bad luck he's just not going to qualify ahead of Max. So all of Red Bull's race strategies can safely favour Max because he's going to be ahead of Perez in the early parts of races. Obviously if Perez somehow comes away from the first few races with wins that dynamic might change.
George is the opposite, he's one of the best at qualifying on the grid, while his ability in wheel to wheel racing is still a big question mark. So it's pretty likely he'll out-qualify Lewis a lot more than Bottas did. I have no doubt Toto will have told George that he'll be expected to play second fiddle this season and to not rock the boat. But if there's one place he's not going to pull punches it's in qualifying.
Russell will take time to adjust. Hamilton may be in the latter stages of his career, but people so easily forget that he’s a very, very fast racing driver. I expect Russell will not have the same distance in qualifying between him and Hamilton as Bottas did, assuming he settles into the car. And I do expect he will be closer to Hamilton than Perez. But I still think Hamilton will still have the edge. It’s a lot easier to push the car right to the limit in a Williams when you know you have to have a chance, to be in a competitive car fighting for pole.