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2022-23 Performances


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georgipep

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It's unbelievable that people can't seem to grasp that the first team football manager is responsible for the development of young players who have been signed from other first team playing squads.

Pellistri apparently who Solskjaer wanted, only made his first team debut two years later under Erik ten Hag. Amad Diallo from memory was given a start in a dead rubber EPL game away to Wolves, and imo he was the best player on the pitch. I then remember Solskjaer throwing Amad on in a game against AC Milan in the Europa League and he made a instant impact by scoring the opening goal in a game that was on a knife edge. Amad's reward for that performance was to go back to being a bit part player before eventually being loaned.

I very much doubt either Garnacho or Mainoo would've made their senior debuts under Solskjaer at this stage. But ten Hag has not only integrated Garnacho into the first team squad he's also given a full start to a 17 year old midfielder in a league Cup quarter final.

And that's the difference between ten Hag who has developed players who have performed at the highest level like the Champions League and Solskjaer who never did.
It's astonishing that people can't seem to understand that not every player is ready for first team minutes right away. And then start spinning theories and claiming they are true.
 

Trequarista10

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With DVB being injured for the rest of the season, I wonder if Facundo may get some minutes as a number 10?

There's no direct backup for Bruno in the squad for the rest of the season. Eriksen could move forwards but we'd miss his playmaking from deep, Fred has had some minutes there as a pressing 10, but its probably the position we have least depth in currently.
 

Adnan

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It's astonishing that people can't seem to understand that not every player is ready for first team minutes right away. And then start spinning theories and claiming they are true.
How do you know they weren't ready? Or are you so blind in your support for Solskjaer that you're going to defend him blindly? It can be argued that Amad Diallo was more ready than Sancho from the few appearances he made in comparison in the United first team.

And people wanted us to sign Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, who both quite correctly imo chose other destinations because we just didn't have the correct head coach to guide them. We have that guy now and he's not having any problem in integrating the youth players who are worthy of being given chances in the first team.
 

skc_18

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I think he will stay this season. We have way too many games next couple of months and I reckon he will get a number of chances.
 

croadyman

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How do you know they weren't ready? Or are you so blind in your support for Solskjaer that you're going to defend him blindly? It can be argued that Amad Diallo was more ready than Sancho from the few appearances he made in comparison in the United first team.

And people wanted us to sign Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, who both quite correctly imo chose other destinations because we just didn't have the correct head coach to guide them. We have that guy now and he's not having any problem in integrating the youth players who are worthy of being given chances in the first team.
So annoying we hadn't got Erik in place when some of these players were available for peanuts
 

georgipep

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How do you know they weren't ready? Or are you so blind in your support for Solskjaer that you're going to defend him blindly? It can be argued that Amad Diallo was more ready than Sancho from the few appearances he made in comparison in the United first team.

And people wanted us to sign Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, who both quite correctly imo chose other destinations because we just didn't have the correct head coach to guide them. We have that guy now and he's not having any problem in integrating the youth players who are worthy of being given chances in the first team.
How can that be argued? He scored one goal vs Milan and that was it.

How can you tell that he was ready? You are projecting your opinion on their perceived ability and potential, claiming both players were good enough to start when they were signed. Young players are given limited chances then developed in training, youth teams and on loan, until ready.
Similar to Dalot, who is now fully ready.
What about Caicedo? He spent a season on the training grounds at Brighton, before being ready to play regular football. And mind, at Brighton, not Manchester United. The room for error is astronomically smaller at Manchester United in comparison.
 

golden_blunder

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How do you know they weren't ready? Or are you so blind in your support for Solskjaer that you're going to defend him blindly? It can be argued that Amad Diallo was more ready than Sancho from the few appearances he made in comparison in the United first team.

And people wanted us to sign Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, who both quite correctly imo chose other destinations because we just didn't have the correct head coach to guide them. We have that guy now and he's not having any problem in integrating the youth players who are worthy of being given chances in the first team.
Big clubs all lost interest in signing him at the time because he was represented by multiple parties. Brighton already has connections to some of those parties
 

Adnan

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How can that be argued? He scored one goal vs Milan and that was it.

How can you tell that he was ready? You are projecting your opinion on their perceived ability and potential, claiming both players were good enough to start when they were signed. Young players are given limited chances then developed in training, youth teams and on loan, until ready.
Similar to Dalot, who is now fully ready.
What about Caicedo? He spent a season on the training grounds at Brighton, before being ready to play regular football. And mind, at Brighton, not Manchester United. The room for error is astronomically smaller at Manchester United in comparison.
How can that be argued? It can be argued because Amad actually played well in the games he was given opportunities in and was never given follow up opportunities. The only one that wasn't ready was Ole Solskjaer to manage a club of the stature of Man Utd and time has proven that to be the case.
 

georgipep

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How can that be argued? It can be argued because Amad actually played well in the games he was given opportunities in and was never given follow up opportunities. The only one that wasn't ready was Ole Solskjaer to manage a club of the stature of Man Utd and time has proven that to be the case.
Amad played good in your view but not in his managers view. Ole, Ralf and Erik chose not to make him part of the first squad. Make your conclusions on that not your super biased opinion on his current ability, which you obviously mix with his potential.
 

Adnan

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Big clubs all lost interest in signing him at the time because he was represented by multiple parties. Brighton already has connections to some of those parties
That's not what I'm disputing mate.

I think for any young prospect coming to the club we need a capable manager and we just didn't have a capable manager with a track record of developing talent or a track record of implementing a progressive game style at a high level.

I honestly feel if we signed Caicedo, he wouldn't have developed to the level he has due to the limitations in our coaching staff at the time. We could've signed Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez but Solskjaer would've still carried on playing McTominay and Fred imo.

I'm not worried now, because with ten Hag we have a manager who not only has a track record of implementing a attacking brand of football but he also has proven over the years that he can develop talent.

And on top of all that he expects high standards and discipline which were missing under Solskjaer. Ronaldo according to the Manchester press pack was doing as he pleases and a culture had been created which was very damaging and it unfortunately led to a bad dressing room atmosphere.
 

antohan

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I think people underestimate the importance Ten Hag places on out of possession play. We're usually better as a team with Antony because he tracks back, is familiar with ETH's pressing needs and provides width and balance to the team. Elanga also works his socks off for the team. Pellistri looked extremely bright in his ten minute cameo and certainly did more to enliven the game than we've seen Elanga or Mata or Donny do off the bench in recent seasons but I'm not sure if it means that much to EtH if he isn't convinced that he can also provide the off the ball movement and defensive discipline that Anthony or Elanga provide.
You clearly haven't seen him play for Uruguay. I actually expected ETH to love him for this very reason. Very disciplined. Probably not as impressive athletically but makes up for it being very clever and positionally aware, which is probably the hardest thing to coax out of a winger.
Senior career*
International career‡
YearsTeamApps(Gls)
2019–2020Peñarol30(1)
2020–Manchester United0(0)
2021Alavés (loan)12(0)
2021–2022Alavés (loan)21(0)
2017Uruguay U162(0)
2022–Uruguay10(0)

I don't think we should project him as a serious goalscorer. The hope here would be the sort of winger who if he started 30 games would get 5-6 goals and 10-12 assists, like a mix between Jesus Navas and Bernardo Silva.
Your projection is correct, that's the sort of player we should expect.

He sent him out on loan, where he broke into the national team and made the World Cup.
He didn't break into the NT due to the loan. The NT changed manager and the new manager was the same that gave Facundo his debut at Peñarol. He looked at the squad, needs, etc and established he needed a player with Pellistri's characteristics.

Spent about 10 minutes of his presser after the first call-up having to explain why he thought he was the man for the job. Nobody bought it, it was a must win qualifier and he was calling up a kid with barely any football in the last calendar year. Most thought he was trying to get the rival manager off track. Then he started, and made the right wing role his own instantly.
 

Abraxas

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His stats are awful for an attacker. Pretty hard to spin them, no matter what style or type of player you're talking about that's not good enough at this level of club. Or any club.

However he does look really good on the eye, in complete contrast to what is on paper. Hopefully there's a player there.
 

mu4c_20le

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He didn't break into the NT due to the loan. The NT changed manager and the new manager was the same that gave Facundo his debut at Peñarol. He looked at the squad, needs, etc and established he needed a player with Pellistri's characteristics.

Spent about 10 minutes of his presser after the first call-up having to explain why he thought he was the man for the job. Nobody bought it, it was a must win qualifier and he was calling up a kid with barely any football in the last calendar year. Most thought he was trying to get the rival manager off track. Then he started, and made the right wing role his own instantly.
Your current NT manager is Diego Alonso. He hasn't managed Penarol since 2013, when Pelli was 10 years old. Are you sure you aren't mixing up two Diegos?
 

antohan

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Your current NT manager is Diego Alonso. He hasn't managed Penarol since 2013, when Pelli was 10 years old. Are you sure you aren't mixing up two Diegos?
You are actually right, the manager who gave him his debut was Diego López, also an ex-player :facepalm:

Either way, Alonso did offer a very detailed account of Pellistri's attributes and what he thought he could offer "based on his long standing interest from an early age". I doubt he was even at Peñarol aged 10 so it must have been him tracking him with a view to signing him elsewhere.

In any case, his description of why he wanted him (vertical change of rhythm, breaking up defensive lines) was spot on. It was exactly what we needed and he came through with an assist and what should have been a second assist (penalty on him which Suárez missed).

Watch the extended highlights. Everyone dismissed it as "it's only Venezuela" but there's very clearly a very useful forward there.

 

Bojan Djordjic

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His stats are awful for an attacker. Pretty hard to spin them, no matter what style or type of player you're talking about that's not good enough at this level of club. Or any club.

However he does look really good on the eye, in complete contrast to what is on paper. Hopefully there's a player there.
Yeah, his lack of attacking output is absolutely baffling. Even Dan James's expected numbers were dwarfing his which just doesn't compute when you watch both of them on the ball for five minutes.
 

Bondi77

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I hope we get to see him against Palace after his last bright cameo.
 

kundalini

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You are actually right, the manager who gave him his debut was Diego López, also an ex-player :facepalm:

Either way, Alonso did offer a very detailed account of Pellistri's attributes and what he thought he could offer "based on his long standing interest from an early age". I doubt he was even at Peñarol aged 10 so it must have been him tracking him with a view to signing him elsewhere.

In any case, his description of why he wanted him (vertical change of rhythm, breaking up defensive lines) was spot on. It was exactly what we needed and he came through with an assist and what should have been a second assist (penalty on him which Suárez missed).

Watch the extended highlights. Everyone dismissed it as "it's only Venezuela" but there's very clearly a very useful forward there.

I'm astonished that a United manager could watch Pellistri's play at 2 mins 47 secs yet not given him opportunities in the PL. It's not just the skill, it's the understanding that defenders are in an almost impossible situation if you drive at them like that inside the penalty area; the risk of them conceding a penalty is huge.

I thought the same when I watched him play against Atletico Madrid during his first loan spell at Alaves. He went at the Atletico defence time after time.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I actually think there is still place of him this season due to VDB’s injury. Or May be when we rest our attacking mid, we can play Garnacho Sancho Pellistri behind striker.
 

suheilsworld

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From the boss

“He had to wait a long time for it because you have to deserve the game-time in our squad. There are others who also deserved it who didn't even come on.

“He worked for a long time and he proved himself. He showed., in that moment, that he was ready.

“He had some really good actions, he was lively and he got the assist but also [he gave a] good contribution in terms of defending, he was reliable and he took the responsibility.

“I am happy with that performance and I’m happy with his development, we brought him in [to the team] and we think he has a future here at Manchester United.”
 

The Boy

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What about Caicedo? He spent a season on the training grounds at Brighton, before being ready to play regular football.
He joined us in the Jan 2021 and played in a couple of cup games (sub appearances) then in August was loaned to Beerschott in Belgium where he played regularly and then was recalled in January 2022 as we had lots of midfield injuries and then began to play for our first team more regularly.
 

georgipep

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He joined us in the Jan 2021 and played in a couple of cup games (sub appearances) then in August was loaned to Beerschott in Belgium where he played regularly and then was recalled in January 2022 as we had lots of midfield injuries and then began to play for our first team more regularly.
Exactly. Youth talent needs time to adjust and mature.

But not according to managerial experts here. It's just Ole's fault..
 

NewGlory

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Gavi is 18, Pedri is 20. They are undisputed starting midfielders for Barca. Nobody calls them kids. Pellistri is 21 and we all act as if he is a toddler. He was a starter for Uruguay at World Cup and nobody called him a kid.

What is wrong with us that we think 21yo player is still a kid that needs to be put in diapers? And please don't give me "Premier League is a more physical league". feck that. at 21 his body is grown up and either he can deal with the more physical league or he can't but he is not a fecking kid anymore and needs to be used at least occasionally and at least with bottom half teams or in cup games!

We simply dont have deep enough squad to not be using Pellistri and if we dont use him then he is just not good enough, but let's stop pretending he is a kid for feck's sake. He is 21! Antony is 22 and he was Pellistri's age when he was playing as senior player for Ajax!

Sell Elanga and make Pellistri our squad player now!
 
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crossy1686

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Gavi is 18, Pedri is 20. They are undisputed starting midfielders for Barca. Nobody calls them kids. Pellistri is 21 and we all act as if he ja a toddler. He was a starter for Uruguay at World Cup and nobody called him a kid.

What is wrong with us that we think 21yo player is still a kid that needs to be put in diapers? And please don't give me "Premier League is a more physical league". feck that. at 21 his body is grown up and either he can deal with the more physical league or he can't but he is not a fecking kid anymore and needs to be used at least occasionally and at least with bottom half teams or in cup games!

We simply dont have deep enough squad to not be using Pellistri and if we dont use him then he js not good enough, but let's stop pretending he is a kid for feck's sake. He is 21!
They also had their hand forced by being skint, we had our hand forced once with Rashford, but then again we also did with Spector, Possebon, Eagles, Cleverly etc and you can say what you want about 'physical', if you haven't filled out you're going to get battered, regardless of how old you are.

If he was as good as you're suggesting he might be, he'd be starting most games. The fact of the matter is, he has to earn his place like he's doing now. Starting a game with Garnacho, Pellistri and Martial up top is a sure fire way to get hammered.
 

Fortitude

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Gavi is 18, Pedri is 20. They are undisputed starting midfielders for Barca. Nobody calls them kids. Pellistri is 21 and we all act as if he is a toddler. He was a starter for Uruguay at World Cup and nobody called him a kid.

What is wrong with us that we think 21yo player is still a kid that needs to be put in diapers? And please don't give me "Premier League is a more physical league". feck that. at 21 his body is grown up and either he can deal with the more physical league or he can't but he is not a fecking kid anymore and needs to be used at least occasionally and at least with bottom half teams or in cup games!

We simply dont have deep enough squad to not be using Pellistri and if we dont use him then he js not good enough, but let's stop pretending he is a kid for feck's sake. He is 21! Antony is 22 and he was Pellistri's age when he was playing as senior player for Ajax!

Sell Elanga and make Pellistri our squad player now!
You're using outliers to make your point? Nobody is surprised if a 21-year old isn't ready or showing the performance level he might eventually get to. That's just normal trajectory - young prodigies are far removed from that, which is why they're called prodigies in the first place.

Not sure Pellistri was ever deemed a prodigy?
 

NewGlory

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You're using outliers to make your point? Nobody is surprised if a 21-year old isn't ready or showing the performance level he might eventually get to. That's just normal trajectory - young prodigies are far removed from that, which is why they're called prodigies in the first place.

Not sure Pellistri was ever deemed a prodigy?
You do realize Pellistri is only a year younger than Antony? That is the point - 21 is not the age that you need to be a prodigy to play senior football. It he is not physical enough at 21 then he never will be and we need to sell him. But if he is an EPL player he needs to play. You cannot develop without playing competitive games. Simple as that. We just keep making excuses for why we have players not used in this club

Starting a game with Garnacho, Pellistri and Martial up top is a sure fire way to get hammered.
Said who? Pellistri played senior football at World Cup against physical opponents and was fine. I am sure he will do better than Elanga if he starts. May even do better than Antony if he is used properly.
 

Guapa

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Glad we're looking to keep him,looks more than useful.
 

Fortitude

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You do realize Pellistri is only a year younger than Antony? That is the point - 21 is not the age that you need to be a prodigy to play senior football. It he is not physical enough at 21 then he never will be and we need to sell him. But if he is an EPL player he needs to play. You cannot develop without playing competitive games. Simple as that. We just keep making excuses for why we have players not used in this club
It doesn't matter what the age of someone else is; every player has their own path and trajectory, or do you believe we see everything every player can and will offer in the future by 21 years of age?

That's not an excuse for any player or the club, but a literal fact of football, or should I cite some players who weren't even on the map at 21 who went on to have exceptional careers?

The bolded is also really out there.

I think it's premature to state he'll get no playing time here for the remainder of the season. But if Sancho is back and ready to play, we'll see some activity with Pellistri with regard to a loan or him simply asking for an out, I think.
 
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