I am against sanctions that will starve people or deprive them from medicine, for example. Not allowing a few kids to play football is hardly comparable.
FIFA end their ban on Russia's U17 boys and girls national football teams
- Thread starter JuriM
- Start date
Like I said, Ukrainian kids can't have a normal life but we normalize Russian kids lives. It's disgusting but unsurprising. It's a matter of time until they are on their own. I completely emphasize with OP views and they really know what's at stake for their countries if Russia isn't stopped. They have dealt with russians all their lives.
feckin hell, now people saying benevolent dictatorships are actually kinda nice... time to go to bed.
Fair point. Intellectually I'm just as angry with Saudi Arabia as I am with Russia, but emotions sometimes get in the way.
BUt still unfair nonetheless.
We're talking about kids who want to play football. They don't have much to celebrate or to be happy about and you're willing to take that away, fully knowing that this ban won't make Putin budge in any kind of way.
Putin's regime actually uses sports a lot for propaganda. There are many articles online explaining why russia really wants to be on the international stage when it comes to sports.
unsurprising from that user. Haven't you read his particular views? I'm out too.That's an opinion piece by some guy. The previous link I provided has Navalny himself criticizing everything from Putin's 2014 invasion of Crimea to the 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
Unfortunately, there's little room for protest in a totalitarian dictatorship; particularly when the ramifications are arrest, imprisonment, or death.
Way to dismiss his views regarding Georgia and Georgians. His views definitely apply to Ukraine and Ukrainians. Estonia and Estonians. It's pointless to continue. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.
What does any of this have to do with Ukraine or whether Russian teenagers are allowed to play football ?
We are going in circles. It has to do with Russian society, mindset and how they view neigbour countries. I've repeated the same thing over and over again. They are complicit and should bear the consequences of their countries actions. Stop quoting me when you already know my answer.
Good night
Surely it's not too much to ask children to protest in front of the Kremlin? The least they could do, considering what their age mates in Ukraine are going through
I think I get your argument. Vlad Vexler has a video on a similar topic. I'd ask you what has caused Russian children and teens to be complicit in Putin's decisions?
Classic authocracy MO.
So what? Has it ever been proven successful in the long run? Not that I know of.
They don't get any further recognition anyway, not from the players who really matter in international politics. And the performance of their athletes never won them a war.
You do realize you're talking about a totalitarian dictatorship where people don't have any options other than to play along, as if its some sort of democracy where they can protest and cause political change. That's not how it works there. Ask Navalny himself.
A massive swath of Russian troops who are being forced to fight don't even want to be in Ukraine, and yet you're promoting the idea that Russian teenagers who play football are somehow complicit.
They indirectly are and therefore should suffer the consequences until ukranian children and teens can have a normal life.
Anyways I'm out. The missus nagging me and got really upset when I told her what I was doing at the computer at these late hours. She called it a waste of time and I have to agree.
Fair enough! Enjoy your night my friend.
Indirectly complicit. You talk as if other countries of autocratic nature haven't changed their fate. Russians are quite confortable with the enduring status quo and embrace their imperialist nature.
I'm all for Russian kids resuming their normal football international careers as soon as ukranian kids have their normal lives back.
It's people inflating the importance of sports beyond it's actual value. I can't imagine any other reason why the thought of children playing sports under a neutral flag would evoke so much emotion.
(It's why the same suspects in this thread swear and actually believe the delusion that Middle Eastern autocracies need sports to gain influence in today's world, but that's another story entirely.)
Russians are bombarded government propaganda to make them think a certain way. That's how totalitarian dictatorships work. You are then believing the results of the propaganda and then vilifying all Russians for believing the only source of information they have.
Again discounting Russian mindset, history and treatment of former Soviet countries either with or without Putin.
Anyways I'm really out now. Don't want to get divorced because of an internet discussion about a russian football ban.
I'm pretty sure that actually is too much to ask. Children in Russia are indoctrinated from birth and bombarded with propaganda daily.
This has nothing to do with what we’re discussing.
Russian teenagers can play in Russian league and their allies.
They aren't not totally banned from just playing
They aren't not totally banned from just playing
You're absolutely right. Sport and image are obviously deeply entwined, both externally and internally, and there's a reason these regimes so often use it to control the narrative. That needs to be balanced against "a tiny amount of teenagers aren't allowed to play international football, only domestic and this is supposedly some really cruel heartless thing...?"
But don't say "I'm out" and then post two minutes later
See both sides but it should be about more than the football. While I've nothing against Russians who are against the war, ostracising Russia is about sending a message, and while it may be small in the grand scheme, it's still at a global level and worthy in my opinion.
Showing the world supports Ukraine should take priority. Like others have mentioned, there's young Ukrainians, civilians and otherwise, dying in their droves and I'd rather the world showed a small amount of support to their families than to a handful of fortunate Russians.
Showing the world supports Ukraine should take priority. Like others have mentioned, there's young Ukrainians, civilians and otherwise, dying in their droves and I'd rather the world showed a small amount of support to their families than to a handful of fortunate Russians.
This argument depends entirely on whether you believe joy and suffering to be a zero sum game. You evidently do but I think most would disagree.
Glad to know so many on the Caf would have opposed the sports boycott and ban of South Africa during Apartheid.
It doesn't at all.
You basically said Russian children should suffer so that Ukranian children don't suffer.
No I didn't. To even compare the suffering of Ukrainian children to that of a few footballers in Russia not being allowed to play by FIFA as if it's on par is frankly a bit odd. I know which side I'd be on though.
I think I replied to the wrong person or otherwise got mixed up, my bad.
Edit: I can't help but bite. Fifa prohibiting children from participating in sport is literally inflicting suffering on those children. That's completely separate from the suffering of Ukranian children which is on a whole different level.
They're not, they're prohibiting them from playing in one specific competition. Those 30 kids are still able to play football.
Good point.
I would be curious to know what these 16 and 17 years olds think of the war.
The ban of South African teams during Apartheid was primarily because their government refused to field integrated teams. They sent out all-white teams to represent a majority black nation.
Specific to football, FIFA's ban was due to Apartheid's impact on football team selection, not the wider crime of Apartheid in South African society. The ban on the South African team was lifted once the team was integrated, before the official end of apartheid (which had nothing to do with sport, and everything to do with the mounting costs of economic sanctions and internal struggle)
Speaking of apartheid, why is Israel allowed to participate in international sport at all levels?
OK but that's semantics. I could say Fifa are prohibiting Russian children from competing at the highest level of the sport. That would be more correct. However you want to phrase it, Fifa are punishing children who cannot consent to what their government is doing.
I'll repeat that Fifas decision is not even approaching the same level as Russias decision to invade Ukriane but it is still inflicting suffering. That's where my comment about it not being a zero sum game came from.
I'm fairly certain this isn't true, and you're the second person this week to make that point to me so I'm wondering where this info is coming from? (I'd like to read it). The wider apartheid policies were the main reason for the FIFA ban. The 1960 Sharpeville massacre was a massive influence in the decision to take a stance and to suspend South Africa (not just FIFA but many other sporting organisations), as well as newly independent African countries who had recently joined FIFA and were putting pressure on the organisation.
They're not, they've been banned from certain organisations (It's why they're a member of UEFA). Obviously they should have faced more repercussions, but am I safe to assume you think they should face no sporting repercussions?
It's not semantics, there's a notable distinction.
Good decision