FIFA end their ban on Russia's U17 boys and girls national football teams

[Thom Merrilin]

I'm fairly certain this isn't true, and you're the second person this week to make that point to me so I'm wondering where this info is coming from? (I'd like to read it). The wider apartheid policies were the main reason for the FIFA ban. The 1960 Sharpeville massacre was a massive influence in the decision to take a stance and to suspend South Africa (not just FIFA but many other sporting organisations), as well as newly independent African countries who had recently joined FIFA and were putting pressure on the organisation.



They're not, they've been banned from certain organisations (It's why they're a member of UEFA). Obviously they should have faced more repercussions, but am I safe to assume you think they should face no sporting repercussions?



It's not semantics, there's a notable distinction.

It is semantics. My point stands no matter how you phrase it.

 

[Sir Matt]

The ban of South African teams during Apartheid was primarily because their government refused to field integrated teams. They sent out all-white teams to represent a majority black nation.

Specific to football, FIFA's ban was due to Apartheid's impact on football team selection, not the wider crime of Apartheid in South African society. The ban on the South African team was lifted once the team was integrated, before the official end of apartheid (which had nothing to do with sport, and everything to do with the mounting costs of economic sanctions and internal struggle)

Speaking of apartheid, why is Israel allowed to participate in international sport at all levels?

It started because South Africa segregated teams and sports more broadly, but it continued well after they integrated in the 70s until the end of Apartheid. South Africa was expelled from FIFA and wasn't readmitted until 1992.

 

[Cascarino]

It is semantics. My point stands no matter how you phrase it.

You initially said that you don’t believe the Russian children should suffer just because Ukrainian kids are suffering, and that you don’t believe in zero games. It’s important to point out that this ‘suffering’ consists of a couple dozen of kids not being allowed to play in one specific competition.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

You initially said that you don’t believe the Russian children should suffer just because Ukrainian kids are suffering, and that you don’t believe in zero games. It’s important to point out that this ‘suffering’ consists of a couple dozen of kids not being allowed to play in one specific competition.

I'm just pointing out that that doesn't make their suffering any less just because it only applies to a couple dozen people.

Edit: I said that I don't believe joy and suffering to be a zero sum game, not that I don't believe in zero sum games.

 

[Sir Matt]

Since they've been readmitted for youth teams, will Russia be allowed to field players they abducted from Ukraine and sent for re-education before being given to Russian parents or orphanages? Of the 700k kids Russia claims to have "saved," at least a few have to be good enough to play football for their teams.

 

[adexkola]

I'm fairly certain this isn't true, and you're the second person this week to make that point to me so I'm wondering where this info is coming from? (I'd like to read it). The wider apartheid policies were the main reason for the FIFA ban. The 1960 Sharpeville massacre was a massive influence in the decision to take a stance and to suspend South Africa (not just FIFA but many other sporting organisations), as well as newly independent African countries who had recently joined FIFA and were putting pressure on the organisation.

It soon became clear however that South Africa's constitution prohibited racially mixed teams from competitive sport, and so they could only send either an all-black side or an all-white side to the planned 1957 African Cup of Nations. This was unacceptable to the other members of the Confederation, and South Africa was disqualified from the competition, however, some sources say that they withdrew voluntarily.[16]

At the second CAF conference in 1958, South Africa were formally expelled from CAF. The all-white FASA were admitted to FIFA in the same year, but in August 1960 it was given an ultimatum of one year to fall in line with the non-discriminatory regulations of FIFA. On 26 September 1961 at the annual FIFA conference, the South African association was formally suspended from FIFA. Sir Stanley Rous, president of The Football Association of England and a champion of South Africa's FIFA membership, was elected FIFA President a few days later. Rous was adamant that sport, and FIFA in particular, should not embroil itself in political matters and against fierce opposition, he continued to resist attempts to expel South Africa from FIFA. The suspension was lifted in January 1963 after a visit to South Africa by Rous in order to investigate the state of soccer in the country.

Rous declared that if the suspension were not lifted, soccer there would be discontinued, possibly to the point of no recovery. The next annual conference of FIFA in October 1964 took place in Tokyo and was attended by a larger contingent of representatives from African and Asian associations and here the suspension of South Africa's membership was re-imposed. In 1976, after the Soweto uprising, they were formally expelled from FIFA.

In 1991, when the apartheid system was beginning to be demolished, a new multi-racial South African Football Association was formed, and admitted to FIFA – and thus finally allowing South Africa to enter the qualifying stages for subsequent World Cups.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_national_soccer_team

There was minimal connection between Sharpeville and the FIFA ban. Yes there was international outrage after Sharpeville but that did not extend to strong sanctions until the 80s (against the wishes of Thatcher/Reagan).

If you think it was simply FIFA going, "apartheid bad, hence ban", why was that standard not applied to US, specialists in Jim Crow around that exact timeframe?

Keep in mind that apartheid was not fully done away with until 1994.

They're not, they've been banned from certain organisations (It's why they're a member of UEFA). Obviously they should have faced more repercussions, but am I safe to assume you think they should face no sporting repercussions?

UEFA have been the source of the largest complainers about the removal of the ban on Russia's U-17 team. A ban on the adult team still stands. They also allow Israel to compete on all levels. I'm looking for some consistency.

I'd be perfectly content with children from problematic countries being allowed to compete in neutral colors (strict prohibition on propaganda/advocacy of evil causes) to, and consistency in bans being applied at all adult levels. Short of that, meh, it's let's ban who has the most powerful enemies. Not a fan of the latter.

 

[klsv]

People also might want to consider if other kids want to play against Russian kids. The kids from countries bordering Russia and taking most refugees probably won't, so they'll have to boycott it. Estonia probably won't be able to host the U17 Euros etc. Easy to moan about poor Russian kids not being able to play football if you're not living in the area and have no idea how much it affects those of us who do.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

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[Real Name]

Oh poor Russian kids, they weren't allowed to play football, now they can.

What's next, lifting the sanctions?

 

[CallyRed]

I would expect an interesting game should Ukraine face Russia at a knockout tournament. Two footed tackles galore.

 

[Lay]

I would expect an interesting game should Ukraine face Russia at a knockout tournament. Two footed tackles galore.

I always thought South Korea v North Korea would have been a violent football match, until they played and it was the nicest football game ever with both teams almost refusing to commit a foul. Might be different between those two though

 

[Smores]

If it's just the U17 then I struggle to understand the anger beyond an emotional outburst. It's a meaningless competition do people really think Russia cares about it?

It could be a bridge to Fifa allowing the senior team to play but i'll save my anger til then rather than getting angry at some teenagers kicking a ball.

 

[Ragnar123]

That's exactly how Russian propaganda works. They will try to normalize the situation little by little, starting with teenagers and if they succeed, people will slowly get tired of supporting Ukraine.
They let us discuss and argue about what is right, what is wrong, about who is innocent, about poor teenagers who only want to play football, about reasons. And while we're at it, we lose the fecking big picture. A gonocidial unprovoked war of extermination.
There is only one right way to address this: Absolutely zero fecking tolerance for Russia in absolutely everything. Ban them everywhere, stop all trades and relations, build a fecking wall if necessary until they either start to respect the UN charter or become a second North Korea.
Everything else is turning the other cheek and helping Russia's propaganda. Every bit of our tolerance is seen as weakness in Russia and will be exploited. There are still way too many people that don't understand how Russia works. It's sad.

edit: What's also sad is, that nobody asks how much money Fifa got from the Kremlin to end their ban. The corruption is obvious and nobody cares.

 

[Bole Top]

 

[maniak]

Amazing that people keep saying it's just kids, putin doesn't care either way, it's not related to politics, etc.

So much information out there on how russia uses sports as a political propaganda tool...

 

[Ish]

The ban of South African teams during Apartheid was primarily because their government refused to field integrated teams. They sent out all-white teams to represent a majority black nation.

Specific to football, FIFA's ban was due to Apartheid's impact on football team selection, not the wider crime of Apartheid in South African society. The ban on the South African team was lifted once the team was integrated, before the official end of apartheid (which had nothing to do with sport, and everything to do with the mounting costs of economic sanctions and internal struggle)

Speaking of apartheid, why is Israel allowed to participate in international sport at all levels?

Ooof!

 

[RedSky]

You initially said that you don’t believe the Russian children should suffer just because Ukrainian kids are suffering, and that you don’t believe in zero games. It’s important to point out that this ‘suffering’ consists of a couple dozen of kids not being allowed to play in one specific competition.

Opinions like that actually gets me angry, poor Russian teenagers 'suffering' because they don't get to play a football game while other Ukrainian children are suffering after being gang raped by Russian troops and watching their parents get shot. Those poor Russian teenagers, my heart bleeds for them.

Its not a reasonable opinion in the slightest.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If it's just the U17 then I struggle to understand the anger beyond an emotional outburst. It's a meaningless competition do people really think Russia cares about it?

It could be a bridge to Fifa allowing the senior team to play but i'll save my anger til then rather than getting angry at some teenagers kicking a ball.

Would your take be any different if it were Nazi Germany ?

 

[Ragnar123]

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UEFA reverses its decision to allow Russia's U-17 football teams to participate in international tournaments again.

Good! The pressure from other countries to boycott tournaments worked thankfully.

 

[Enigma_87]

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Good! The pressure from other countries to boycott tournaments worked thankfully.

Probably testing the waters to eventually go through with it. Still the correct decision to overturn it.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

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Good! The pressure from other countries to boycott tournaments worked thankfully.

Thank feck they came to their senses.