MAME DIOUF 32
Full Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2013
- Messages
- 3,577
City didn't score.Contributed very little over the 90 mins. Which sums up the player tbh.
g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });
City didn't score.Contributed very little over the 90 mins. Which sums up the player tbh.
That's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.His red against PSG cost us big time at Leipzig. Feels like we haven't played well in any game he hasn't played this season.
Those are some staggering stats. He has his faults but there is no doubt he brings a lot to the team and right now I don't think there is anyone else that can do the job that he does.That's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.
2 common denominators here. First they were all shit performances bar 20 mins v Westham and second Fred didnt play in any of them.
It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
Contributed very little over the 90 mins. Which sums up the player tbh.
Defensively he'd be better than VdB even at 25%Just bonkers that he wasn’t subbed, he was clearly about 75% after that knock in the 1st half. Why didn’t OGS replace him with VDB...?
Some of them have no clue and want to only shoehorn Bruno, Pogba, VdB into the team some how. He might not be on the level of Kante but he does a great job for us even if obviously limited.That's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.
2 common denominators here. First they were all shit performances bar 20 mins v Westham and second Fred didnt play in any of them.
It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
?City didn't score.
We've played well in very few games to start with. And he's played in games where we were poor too. Generally the point is, he's played most of our games (6th most) so whatever performance good or bad he was part of itThat's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.
2 common denominators here. First they were all shit performances bar 20 mins v Westham and second Fred didnt play in any of them.
It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
He’s key to our play, particularly in big games. Missed him big time vs Leipzig.We've played well in very few games to start with. And he's played in games where we were poor too. Generally the point is, he's played most of our games (6th most) so whatever performance good or bad he was part of it
Yeah, looked at the stats now.That's cos we haven't. He has missed 6 games this season as follows: Crystal Palace - 3 conceded at home. Brighton, 2 conceded. Spurs at home, 6 conceded. Istanbul, 2 conceded, West Ham, 2 conceded, Leipzig 3 conceded. Total 6 games and 18 conceded.
2 common denominators here. First they were all shit performances bar 20 mins v Westham and second Fred didnt play in any of them.
It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
Please explain in what way Fred should get credit for that??City didn't score.
He’s not the only reason for a clean sheet obviously, but the stats are out there for you to see how key he is to us. Look at the state on the midfield vs Leipzig compared to yesterday.Please explain in what way Fred should get credit for that??
We won a lot more with him in the team though. But I get it. Your hard on on Herrera clouds your judgment on FredWe've played well in very few games to start with. And he's played in games where we were poor too. Generally the point is, he's played most of our games (6th most) so whatever performance good or bad he was part of it
No, I just think we've been poor even if we're not too far off on points. I've fallen asleep in our first halves on more than one occasion.We won a lot more with him in the team though. But I get it. Your hard on on Herrera clouds your judgment on Fred
Well no, he wasnt part of any of those 6 performances that I listed.We've played well in very few games to start with. And he's played in games where we were poor too. Generally the point is, he's played most of our games (6th most) so whatever performance good or bad he was part of it
They've also barely played together compared to McTominay and Fred who have both looked better together and have played together a lot.He’s key to our play, particularly in big games. Missed him big time vs Leipzig.
Not sure if that’s because he is very good at what he does or because we literally have nobody else as mobile as him. McTominay and Matic was disastrous.
Thanks for that, that's way better than my basic stats.Yeah, looked at the stats now.
He's started 13 games. In those games, we conceded 10 goals, scored 29 goals and won 10 of those games, losing just twice.
With him starting:
13 games
69.23% won
15.38% lost
2.23 goals scored per game
0.77 goals conceded per game
Without Fred starting:
6 games
33.33% won
66.67% lost
1.83 goals scored per game
2.83 goals conceded per game
Didn't account for time on the pitch, but the difference is incredible, without even considering the team's performances. We'd probably still be in the Champions League if Ole just subbed him against PSG.
Shows how much we need new quality midfielders.
I’d be also willing to bet the games he started were tougher fixtures, on paper. He tends to start all our biggest games.Yeah, looked at the stats now.
He's started 13 games. In those games, we conceded 10 goals, scored 29 goals and won 10 of those games, losing just twice.
With him starting:
13 games
69.23% won
15.38% lost
2.23 goals scored per game
0.77 goals conceded per game
Without Fred starting:
6 games
33.33% won
66.67% lost
1.83 goals scored per game
2.83 goals conceded per game
Didn't account for time on the pitch, but the difference is incredible, without even considering the team's performances. We'd probably still be in the Champions League if Ole just subbed him against PSG.
Shows how much we need new quality midfielders.
Those stats don’t surprise me at all and I agree, I struggle to see how anyone can’t see how much better we are when Fred plays. He’s so much better than a lot of people give him credit for.It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
So your theory is that he's asked to let players get past him easily with a poor success rate of tackles? Doesnt seem very likely does itHe is the engine room. I personally feel that he is doing what he has been asked to do. Now if we get a top class replacement for Matic and one class quick CB we can be in business.
That would get Fred up the pitch more often and could close down the opposition further up the pitch
The statistics have already been provided to show how much better the team performs defensively with Fred in it. And to be fair his tackle success rate isn't too different from matic.So your theory is that he's asked to let players get past him easily with a poor success rate of tackles? Doesnt seem very likely does it
Yes Matic's is bad this season too. Wasnt the case last season, but so far this season like Fred he's beaten more than he tackles someone who takes him on.The statistics have already been provided to show how much better the team performs defensively with Fred in it. And to be fair his tackle success rate isn't too different from matic.
Mctominays tackle success rate is much better. However despite playing more PL minutes this season with a 85% tackle success rate; Fred has still managed to complete more tackles than McTominay with his 50% success rate.
As others have mentioned the difference between Fred and the others is his engine and ability to get himself about the pitch.
It's all well and good having McTominay completing 85% of his tackles but when Fred is attempting double the tackles in any given game, it makes you wonder what the other is up to.
I guess if you don't do much then you can't really put a fit wrong. And I suppose Fred at times is a victim of his own success for getting himself about in the danger zones and constantly being in the centre of the action..
Like I started this post, the statistics don't lie and Freds presence has a massive influence on the team's performance. Only second to Bruno for how influential he is on the team's performance in my opinion.
I wouldn't really say Fred is a traditional DM though, more a box to box midfielder with qualities at both ends of the pitches.Yes Matic's is bad this season too. Wasnt the case last season, but so far this season like Fred he's beaten more than he tackles someone who takes him on.
That doesnt stop it being a terrible thing for a DM though. It just means Matic is doing as poorly as Fred is as a DM
None of that would change whether he's doing a good job as a DM in a 4-2-3-1I wouldn't really say Fred is a traditional DM though, more a box to box midfielder with qualities at both ends of the pitches.
You should have a look on infogol at the different stats for players who play in a similar role to Fred though.
I do agree his tackle success rate is low but in contrast to other "DMs" such as Kante, doucoure etc.. he is attempting alot more tackles per 90. And I suspect making and completing more passes too.
So while Fred may not be as successful in his tackling, he is attempting much more than the average midfielder and I attribute this to his engine and seemingly always being in the action zone. A failed tackle is better than no tackle because at least it slows down play. Or other players don't have the engine or positional sense to be able to attempt the challenges which Fred does.
even Fred’s biggest fans can’t say he’s as important at Bruno with a straight face.Fred is as important as Bruno just playing a different position obviously. Shame he was carrying a knock since the early minutes and hardly shaked it off till the end of the game. His movement was seriously limited, think we could win a few more balls in midfield and capitalize on them if he was 100%, city were there for taking..
Yeah, always thought there was a player in there when he was struggling. His problem was only really the loose passing and touches, and IIRC I said it was due to him being new to the league. Usually thought he had more time on the ball than he really did.His first touch has long been an issue for discussions, but it´s hardly an issue anymore. Yes, he had that slip when he got the red card, but his passing has become much better. He does not give the ball away much, and unlike last season, my heart does not pump extra when he receives the ball in pressed situations. He improved a lot last season, and has continued to improve this season. One of top 3 for United this season.
We always play better when he does play. His contribution to block the opponent pass made the whole team play more effective to attack them.It really really really astounds me that people, united fans especially, think we are better when he doesn't play.
I understand the reasoning behind this.Fred is as important as Bruno just playing a different position obviously. Shame he was carrying a knock since the early minutes and hardly shaked it off till the end of the game. His movement was seriously limited, think we could win a few more balls in midfield and capitalize on them if he was 100%, city were there for taking..
Believe it or not, even statistics backs that.even Fred’s biggest fans can’t say he’s as important at Bruno with a straight face.
Sorry, but that's just not flying, and you've no reason to slag people off as FIFA-playing fools just because they don't accept a notion as preposterous as what you're suggesting.Believe it or not, even statistics backs that.
I bet you're one of those kids who play FIFA with just attacking players because they have good attacking stats. Real life is different, some people who usually don't understand the game will only notice flicks, tricks and attacking input, some will also notice running, tackling etc. That's better but not enough either. There is so much more to that and mostly you can tell in a thread like this who's got a bit more knowledge than others to be frank and I'm being nice here:-)
His contribution is the stuff that isn't flashy which is why people struggle to notice it.On tv it's always harder to analyse players that help the team tick...rather that moments players that score or get an assist. Thats why I will never really have a strong opinion on Fred, I just haven't watched him closely enough to know his contribution.