Gaa 2013

[Irwinwastheking]

So to recap here’s the 2014 Ulster SFC draw:​

Preliminary round: Tyrone v Down​

Quarter-finals: Monaghan v Tyrone/Down; Fermanagh v Antrim; Donegal v Derry; Cavan v Armagh​

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So to recap here’s the 2014 Leinster SFC draw:​

First round: Wicklow v Laois; Longford v Offaly; Westmeath v Louth​

Quarter-finals: Wicklow/Laois v Dublin; Longford/Offaly v Wexford; Westmeath/Louth v Kildare; Meath v Carlo​

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So to recap here’s the 2014 Connacht SFC draw:​

Preliminary round: New York v Mayo​

Quarter-finals: Roscommon v Leitrim; London v Galway​

Semi-finals: Roscommon/Leitrim v New York/Mayo; London/Galway v Sligo​

 

[Irwinwastheking]

So Tyrone have to win 3 games to get to a ulster final and Kerry win 3 to get to an all Ireland semi final.

 

[Big Papi]

One year, Kerry had a bye to the Munster final, so three games to win n All Ireland.

What's this A & B shite all about?

 

[Big Papi]

Tomás O'Sé retiring. A brilliant player, so consistent and hard as feck.

 

[Big Papi]

from Hoganstand.com

What the hell is wrong with people? Is there any fecking respect left in the world at all?

GAA star's grave robbed
03 October 2013
A Derry woman has been left devastated by the theft of a marble football statue from her husband's grave.

Thieves took the statute from the grave of former GAA player Adrian Heaney, who died after being diagnosed with cancer in 2005.

His wife Clare revealed that the theft took place from Bellaghy graveyard sometime between last Wednesday and Friday.

Adrian was a member of the St Malachy's Castledawson senior team, whom he captained prior to his death. He also represented the county at minor, under-21 and senior level.

Speaking to the County Derry Post, Clare spoke of her heartbreak to hear of the theft. "Adrian just lived for his club so his Mammy and Daddy thought it would be fitting to have the O'Neill's ball put on his grave as a tribute.

"To have it stolen, it just rips the heart out of you. It's very upsetting. We are just devastated and cannot believe that someone would do this."

 

[Irwinwastheking]

One year, Kerry had a bye to the Munster final, so three games to win n All Ireland.

What's this A & B shite all about?

The championship is stacked in their favour all-right, and I've long been calling for change. What A&B?

Tomás O'Sé retiring. A brilliant player, so consistent and hard as feck.

Class act all round.

from Hoganstand.com

What the hell is wrong with people? Is there any fecking respect left in the world at all?

Travellers and scumbags in every county. How could you buy something like that from them anyway knowing it's been grave robbed.

 

[The Black Pearl]

One year, Kerry had a bye to the Munster final, so three games to win n All Ireland.

I think a team or a county having to play a few more games against tougher opposition will have a huge advantage when or if they come across a team that has feck all game time.

From what I can gather the Galway footballers will have to play and win 3 away matches to get a crack at what'll probably be Mayo next year in the Connacht final and I seriously doubt the Galway football set up and the supporters will be cribbing about it. The hurlers didn't want to compete in Leinster for nothing either, it nearly paid off for them after the first year getting to an AI final and losing in a replay.

In short I don't buy into people complaining about how some counties have to play less games to get to the holy grail as opposed to other counties.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Well, do you think if it was decided that City had to play 4 games to win the FA cup and United had to play 8 against harder competition every year it would be fair?

Your argument is grand if you happen to be the team to come out of Ulster but not if you get beat in your second or third game. The easy route to the final is a big part of why the likes of Galway have so many All-Irelands.

I said it before, the thing should be a 32 county comp with 4 seeded groups playing off and the top two teams from each go into the quarters.

The provincials should be played in place of the League in Spring time.

 

[The Black Pearl]

Well, do you think if it was decided that City had to play 4 games to win the FA cup and United had to play 8 against harder competition every year it would be fair?

Your argument is grand if you happen to be the team to come out of Ulster but not if you get beat in your second or third game. The easy route to the final is a big part of why the likes of Galway have so many All-Irelands.

I said it before, the thing should be a 32 county comp with 4 seeded groups playing off and the top two teams from each go into the quarters.

The provincials should be played in place of the League in Spring time.

In what? hurling or football?

 

[The Black Pearl]

In hurling the easy route to the final was deemed the reason why Galway weren't winning as many All-Irelands as we probably should have been, especially when you consider the talent that was/is in the county and all the minor/U21's and club All-Irelands we won since we last won a senior nearly 30 years ago now. Once all the in house shit is sorted out the move to Leinster which will mean more hurling against tougher opposition will IMO pay off and fingers crossed it'll be next year. No hurler or footballer wants to be training their arses off 4 nights a week for months on end only to be gone out of the Championship after 2 or if they're lucky 3 matches. They'll want to play as many matches as they can and if they're good enough they'll win an All-Ireland. The cream always rises to the top in the GAA or in the Hurling and Football championships regardless.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

In hurling the easy route to the final was deemed the reason why Galway weren't winning as many All-Irelands as they probably should have been, especially when you consider the talent that was in the county and all the minor/U21's and club All-Irelands we were winning or have won since we last won a senior nearly 30 years ago now. Once all the in house shit is sorted out the move to Leinster which will mean more hurling against tougher opposition will IMO pay off. No hurler or footballer wants to be training their arses off 4 nights a week for months on end only to be gone out of the Championship after 2 or if they're lucky 3 matches. They'll want to play as many matches as they can and if they're good enough they'll win an All-Ireland. The cream always rises to the top in the GAA or in the Hurling and Football championships regardless.

Simple as this, if Kerry were in Ulster there's no way in the world would they have as many All-Irelands as they do. No way.

 

[The Black Pearl]

Simple as this, if Kerry were in Ulster there's no way in the world would they have as many All-Irelands as they do. No way.

If the Ulster teams were as good as you're making out well then playing a few extra matches wouldn't have prevented them stopping Kerry winning all they did.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

If the Ulster teams were as good as you're making out well then playing a few extra matches wouldn't have prevented them stopping Kerry winning all they did.

Simply getting out of Ulster is harder. I really don't understand how you can even argue that it's not easier for a team from Munster to get to and therefore win the All-Ireland. More so in the days before qualifiers but it's still a major factor.

 

[Big Papi]

The championship is stacked in their favour all-right, and I've long been calling for change. What A&B?

From the Irish Indo:

The embers from a magnificent season have not yet cooled, but the first match to set the blaze for 2014 will be struck in Croke Park on Thursday night when the draw for the provincial championships take place.

For the first time, the four provincial football championships will be divided into distinctive A and B sections so that the subsequent qualifiers can be aligned.

The qualifier draws will take place as usual but counties will be restricted to who they can meet, with just eight teams in qualifier round 1A as opposed to 16 in the old qualifier round one.

This will lead to greater certainty around the time that teams play qualifier games, as the provincial councils and the CCCC will be able to align provincial and qualifier games much better to ensure a shorter break between them.

As it stands some counties can still wait six weeks between a provincial first-round defeat and a first-round qualifier. Under the new system the maximum wait will be four weeks. As a result, qualifiers could then start in the middle of June.

Essentially the fixture makers will be able to weight either A or B fixtures earlier in the calendar so the A or B qualifiers can start earlier too.

The hope is that counties will be able to plan their club fixtures much more easily once they know if they are an A or B county on Thursday night. It will help from a promotional point of view too as there won't be such a logjam of qualifier games on the same weekend.

Meanwhile, the issue of Saturday evening replays is expected to be discussed at next week's Central Council meeting.

I wonder if this continues right through the qualifiers or is it only Rd1?

 

[Irwinwastheking]

From the Irish Indo:



I wonder if this continues right through the qualifiers or is it only Rd1?

Surely just round one. It's got to mean that the likes of the first couple of teams out can get the qualifiers over quickly. The connaught championship is the first to start usually I think and they have a long wait before the Q1. Seems it's pairing teams more on time restraints rather than any other reason which may imbalance the championship even more.

 

[moses]

Jesus, Irwin is already whinging about next year. It's going to be a long 12 months.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Jesus, Irwin is already whinging about next year. It's going to be a long 12 months.

Where? I think the championship system is a mess and needs a major revamp, but I've held that view for years. The quality of the football championship this year basically confirms what I'm saying. How many good games were there in the football? I can't think of a single decent qualifier game and even the semi's and the final weren't great. Something needs to be done to improve that aspect and with a perfect 32 counties it makes no sense to me that some teams should get a bye through 2-3 rounds. Would having the top teams all getting into a quarter final not improve the thing?

4 groups of 8 all play each other once - 4 home games and 4 away.
2 from each of the 4 groups through to 1/4's.
Top eight teams play off in a knock out.

Scrap the league as it is and run the provincial championships in Spring time.

How would that not be a better system than the current mess. They would play a similar amount of game each year but all teams would get at least 8 championship games which would make the weaker counties better.,

How the teams finish in the group stage would determine what pool they are in next year.

 

[moses]

We won, it's fine the way it is.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

We won, it's fine the way it is.

A system like that would improve the game and make it more balanced. It would also give you the chance to see the Dubs play down our side of the country ever now and again in the championship.

 

[moses]

Yeah, nobody wants that.

 

[The Black Pearl]

Simply getting out of Ulster is harder. I really don't understand how you can even argue that it's not easier for a team from Munster to get to and therefore win the All-Ireland. More so in the days before qualifiers but it's still a major factor.

I gave you a good example already involving my own county in the hurling that easy routes or less games to get to a 1/4 semi and even finals doesn't always pay off. The Galway hurlers were nearly always caught cold when they came up against a good seasoned out fit from Munster or Leinster and I don't think it's a coincidence that in their 1st season in Leinster last year they were crowned Leinster champions and came within a whisker of becoming All-Ireland champions for the 1st time in 26 years.

The more matches a team plays the better in terms of their development etc if it's against good opposition well then that would be another plus. The Munster hurling championship is probably the toughest now and I'm pretty sure that the Clare and Cork supporters would agree with me that it was the fact they had to play more hurling against good tough opposition that was the makings of them in the end this year, same with Limerick a good tough Munster championship is clearly bringing them on now too and I doubt any of the Munster teams will be cribbing about how hard it is in comparison to other provinces. The Antrim hurlers were desperate to leave a weak Ulster championship to join a good tough Leinster championship as well.

I'm still wondering what all these handy All-Irelands Galway won due to an easy easy-route too. Any All-Ireland Galway won in my lifetime they deserved it or were the best team in the country at the time, when the footballers won the 98' All-Ireland after edging past Mayo the Rossies took them to a replay in the Connacht final, they then went on to beat the Ulster Champions Derry and a very good Kildare team in the final. That was their first All-Ireland in 32 years and there was nothing easy about their route to it at all. No one had an answer to the 'champagne football' a term used by many to describe the football Galway played that year. Likewise in 2001.

 

[Big Papi]

That Galway team played a lovely brand of football. Like Kerry in their pomp in the noughties. Dublin play a good brand when they're winning handy, but are a dirty, cynical team otherwise.

 

[Stick]

Where? I think the championship system is a mess and needs a major revamp, but I've held that view for years. The quality of the football championship this year basically confirms what I'm saying. How many good games were there in the football? I can't think of a single decent qualifier game and even the semi's and the final weren't great. Something needs to be done to improve that aspect and with a perfect 32 counties it makes no sense to me that some teams should get a bye through 2-3 rounds. Would having the top teams all getting into a quarter final not improve the thing?

4 groups of 8 all play each other once - 4 home games and 4 away.
2 from each of the 4 groups through to 1/4's.
Top eight teams play off in a knock out.

Scrap the league as it is and run the provincial championships in Spring time.

How would that not be a better system than the current mess. They would play a similar amount of game each year but all teams would get at least 8 championship games which would make the weaker counties better.,

How the teams finish in the group stage would determine what pool they are in next year.

I'm with you here Irwin. I think a champions league or world cup format would suit it best and also give the weaker teams more games. You'd probably have to knock the provincial titles on the head or award it to the team that gets the farthest or have a playoff if two/three get to the same round.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I gave you a good example already involving my own county in the hurling that easy routes or less games to get to a 1/4 semi and even finals doesn't always pay off. The Galway hurlers were nearly always caught cold when they came up against a good seasoned out fit from Munster or Leinster and I don't think it's a coincidence that in their 1st season in Leinster last year they were crowned Leinster champions and came within a whisker of becoming All-Ireland champions for the 1st time in 26 years.

The more matches a team plays the better in terms of their development etc if it's against good opposition well then that would be another plus. The Munster hurling championship is probably the toughest now and I'm pretty sure that the Clare and Cork supporters would agree with me that it was the fact they had to play more hurling against good tough opposition that was the makings of them in the end this year, same with Limerick a good tough Munster championship is clearly bringing them on now too and I doubt any of the Munster teams will be cribbing about how hard it is in comparison to other provinces. The Antrim hurlers were desperate to leave a weak Ulster championship to join a good tough Leinster championship as well.

I'm still wondering what all these handy All-Irelands Galway won due to an easy easy-route too. Any All-Ireland Galway won in my lifetime they deserved it or were the best team in the country at the time, when the footballers won the 98' All-Ireland after edging past Mayo the Rossies took them to a replay in the Connacht final, they then went on to beat the Ulster Champions Derry and a very good Kildare team in the final. That was their first All-Ireland in 32 years and there was nothing easy about their route to it at all. No one had an answer to the 'champagne football' a term used by many to describe the football Galway played that year. Likewise in 2001.

You ask the tyrone management or any other in Ulster would they rather start the ulster championship in the prelim or in the semi which do you think it would be?

Hurling is an awful example as there's feck all counties playing it. The easiest route to winning an AllIreland football is to play as few games as possible as you get less chance of getting beat. Sure if you win those extra games then you will be battle hardened but you have to get through them. There's also more chances of injuries, burn out and suspensions from playing extra games. Your argument doesn't stack up even a tiny bit.

 

[Stick]

That Galway team played a lovely brand of football. Like Kerry in their pomp in the noughties. Dublin play a good brand when they're winning handy, but are a dirty, cynical team otherwise.

I like the cut of your gib.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I'm with you here Irwin. I think a champions league or world cup format would suit it best and also give the weaker teams more games. You'd probably have to knock the provincial titles on the head or award it to the team that gets the farthest or have a playoff if two/three get to the same round.

Scrap the league and play the provincials as a stand alone comp. That way Ulster will have a good battle while the 6 strong southern counties play one tough game each to win there's.

 

[Stick]

Scrap the league and play the provincials as a stand alone comp. That way Ulster will have a good battle while the 6 strong southern counties play one tough game each to win there's.

Yeah that could work alright.

 

[Big Papi]

I like the cut of your gib.

Thanks. I called Kilkenny on it back in 2004. I saw them beat Cork in Croke Park and I was stunned by the level of contact. Up to then, the common perception was that hurling couldn't be a cynical game as the players had two hands on the hurl. What I saw (noticed) that day for the first time, was a hurling team tackling like a football team. I said that day, that Kilkenny was a dirty team but it was not something I heard anyone agree with for a good few years after.

I'm saying it now about Dublin, while most other people cream themselves about them. I think Dublin got sick of being good, but nice under Lyons, wankers, but weak under Caffrey before Gilroy moulded them into a winning team and Gavin has continued it.

 

[Stick]

Thanks. I called Kilkenny on it back in 2004. I saw them beat Cork in Corke Park and I was stunned by the level of contact. Up to then, the common perception was that hurling couldn't be a cynical game as the players had two hands on the hurl. What I saw (noticed) that day for the first time, was a hurling team tackling like a football team. I said that day, that Kilkenny was a dirty team but it was not something I heard anyone agree with for a good few years after.

Meath once had a reputation of being dirty back in their most successful times. Tyrone have a reputation too for being cynical in recent years following on from their best sides lifting Sam but I would say that there is a chance that you just see a lot more of their games as they are successfull and in fact they are no more cynical or dirty than the teams you see less of. It's just that they are better than those sides.

 

[The Black Pearl]

You ask the tyrone management or any other in Ulster would they rather start the ulster championship in the prelim or in the semi which do you think it would be?

Hurling is an awful example as there's feck all counties playing it. The easiest route to winning an AllIreland football is to play as few games as possible as you get less chance of getting beat. Sure if you win those extra games then you will be battle hardened but you have to get through them. There's also more chances of injuries, burn out and suspensions from playing extra games. Your argument doesn't stack up even a tiny bit.

Hurling is a better example than your Utd and City in an FA Cup campaign one and burn out? ffs players are training 4 nights a week for months and months in the lead up to the championship. At the very most all they'll have to play is 7/8 games over a 3 month period in order to win an All-Ireland.

The toughest province to win in the hurling which is Munster (Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Cork, Waterford) is a lot tougher than Ulster is in the football as well and I never hear any of the Munster crowd giving out about them having to play an extra game or two against tougher opposition like you are here, in fact it's quite the opposite, more games against tougher teams is what's bringing them on and keeping them competitive.

There might be less counties involved in the hurling too but it's a pick a name out of the hat job when it comes to trying to predict who'll get to the final and win an All-Ireland now, I reckon 7/8 counties could win the hurling next year, not to sure the same could be said about the football atm.

Scrapping the league is a load of shite as well. Both the hurling and football leagues this year were really competitive and very entertaining. I can't wait for the hurling one to start up again.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

We'll have to agree to disagree TBP. You never answered my first question though in that post you quoted.

 

[The Black Pearl]

You ask the tyrone management or any other in Ulster would they rather start the ulster championship in the prelim or in the semi which do you think it would be?

If the Tyrone management had any sense they'd opt to play as many matches as possible in order to bring on the team for the future etc. I've given examples already of what that can do and has done for counties. The Ulster football championship isn't as tough as you're making it out be either, realistically there is only two All-Ireland contenders in Ulster, Donegal and Tyrone and if they can't brush aside the rest up there on any given day well then they don't deserve to be All-Ireland champions and it's as simple as that. The amount of extra matches you're on about isn't worth mentioning.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Right so a team like Derry or Down couldn't have a purple day early in the year to knock you out? That couldn't happen to Kerry or Dublin or Cork. That's the difference.

 

[The Black Pearl]

Right so a team like Derry or Down couldn't have a purple day early in the year to knock you out? That couldn't happen to Kerry or Dublin or Cork. That's the difference.

Down with their fecking defensive 15 men behind the ball shite they resorted to this year? Gimme a break! Down and Derry would get white washed once they came a cross a team that wanted to play football and any team that can't beat them doesn't deserve to be AI champions regardless of what format is in place. Once again the Ulster championship isn't as tough as your making it out to be. Two AI contenders and a few stragglers that might get lucky now and again and that's about the height of it.

 

[BD]

The format of the championship is a bit Irish tbf, but I'm not sure if I like the idea of the Champions league format much.

How many good games were there in the football? I can't think of a single decent qualifier game and even the semi's and the final weren't great.

Dublin v Kerry was one of the best games of the last 20 years according to most in fairness. Also, I'm not really sure how changing the format would make for better standard of football. What needs to happen is teams need to stop with the fannying about in their own half for the whole game with shite little handpasses. A max of 3 handpasses in a row or something similar would be an interesting rule addition the GAA could try out.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Down with their fecking defensive 15 men behind the ball shite they resorted to this year? Gimme a break! Down and Derry would get white washed once they came a cross a team that wanted to play football. Once again the Ulster championship isn't as tough as your making it out to be.

You're talking about this particular Down team, I'm talking about throughout the years. Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal shared the Ulster Championship for a long time, but you always worried about getting beat. There's always more than two teams in Ulster unlike Leicester with one and the other two with two teams each.

If Ulster is so bad then why every year is there 3-4 Ulster teams in the Quarters? There's almost always an Ulster team in the All-Ireland final for the past 15 years, There's been at least one Ulster finalist in the last 20 finals so I think you are underestimating Ulster. In that time there's been Derry, Down, Donegal, Tyrone, and Armagh all in finals. From Connaught there's been Mayo and Galway, from Leinster there's been Dublin, Meath and Kildare, In Munster there's been Cork and Kerry.

Ulster - 5 finalists
Leinster - 2 finalists.
Connaught - 2 finalists
Munster - 2 Finalists

5 Ulster teams have made the final yet you think Ulster is not competitive or strong. Kerry make the final year after year and win them because they in all honesty they can afford to train in a completely different way from Ulster teams. Tyrone have to be flying from May whereas Kerry if they avoid Cork in the Munster Semi can aim there full regime towards late Summer and a real tilt for Sam. It's the same story in Connaught with Mayo or Galway whoever is the team of the period and in Leinster for Dublin. The reason Kerry win so many All-Irelands is the same reason Mayo lose them.

(BTW, Kerry and Dublin would still be miles ahead of us all because they have had by far the best teams and players throughout the years.)

 

[Irwinwastheking]

The format of the championship is a bit Irish tbf, but I'm not sure if I like the idea of the Champions league format much.


Dublin v Kerry was one of the best games of the last 20 years according to most in fairness. Also, I'm not really sure how changing the format would make for better standard of football. What needs to happen is teams need to stop with the fannying about in their own half for the whole game with shite little handpasses. A max of 3 handpasses in a row or something similar would be an interesting rule addition the GAA could try out.

I'll give you that but it was one ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak year.

The rule of curtailing handpassing in your own half could be good, as could something like limiting the number of players allowed back. Decent level refereeing, non biased citing of players and a sin in system rather than this half arsed black card would all be potentially big improvements.

 

[The Black Pearl]

I'm not saying the Ulster championship is bad or weak I'm saying it's not so strong or so competitive that's it's the cause of Sam not heading up there more often. The reason Sam isn't heading up there is because there is a better team or teams somewhere else in the country.

If we're going to start going back through the years well it's not like the Leinster and Connacht championships didn't go through spells where 3/4 teams weren't capable of catching one another out on any given day either and I don't seem to remember any complaints from them about the championship format back then. I'd say many in Connacht and Leinster would love to see those days back again.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I'm not saying the Ulster championship is bad or weak I'm saying it's not so strong or so competitive that's it's the cause of Sam not heading up there more often. The reason Sam isn't heading up there is because there is a better team or teams somewhere else in the country.

If we're going to start going back through the years well it's not like the Leinster and Connacht championships didn't go through spells where 3/4 teams weren't capable of catching one another out on any given day either and I don't seem to remember any complaints from them about the championship format back then. I'd say many in Connacht and Leinster would love to see those days back again.

I'm not able to remember a 20 year period where 4-5 teams from any other province than Ulster have been able to get to All-Ireland finals. In Connaught the last few years Sligo and Roscommon have won with London getting to a final. It's not really the point I'm making because that's more a sign of how shite Connaught has been lately.

If Tyrone were playing there football in Munster I can bet they would have more All-Ireland than they have as you get more opportunities to win them from a weaker province. I explicitly stated that Kerry and Dublin have been by far the best sides over the years but they have a lot more than just raw talent swinging in their favour.

 

[lem8sh]

Jesus, Irwin is already whinging about next year. It's going to be a long 12 months.

My thoughts too