General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .

Ultimate Grib

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
2,091
Location
Static
Supports
LA Galaxy
I don't know about @sammsky1 but my ex's family were from Hong Kong, her mum and her Aunt co-owned a takeaway that allowed them to send their combined 3 kids to private school and support their mother back home. They were loaded.
Not putting everyone in the same basket but a big part of corner shops and takeaways doing well is not declaring a lot of the cash income and channeling it through personal accounts and using it for day to day expenses hence avoiding tax. It's possibly the reason why he won't divulge their profession but I still call bullshit.
 

Xeno

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
4,317
Location
Manchester
I'd wager a guess that anyone who has 300k/year taxable income (all taxed by PAYE) over 30 years is closer to the 0.001% than they are to the 1%.
More likely 0.001% of people earning £300k are taxed via PAYE. I reckon 99% of everyone earning even a third of that does everything possible to reduce their effective tax rate.
 

Ady87

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
7,878
Location
Now Accepting Positive Reps.
I trust the Tories to guide us through Brexit more than Corbyn. The man is completely clueless and weak.
In what way is he weak? Are we talking the fact he looks a bit frail at times, because nobody stands by their convictions like Corbyn?

May gives off the illusion she is strong by making decisions with conviction and telling lies with conviction, similarly to Trump. I'd rather have Corbyn who is honest and consistent than someone that says what they think people want to hear, but does so 'confidently'.
 

Nogbadthebad

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
4,609
Location
Wolverhampton
There aren't going to be any debates. The government has decided to opt out.
There is a reason for that. May is hopeless at them, she is useless when she is reading from her writers script at PMQ's, thinking on her feet is way beyond her ability.

I am actually quite interested in how this plays out, corbyn has many, many faults, but he is great in front of a crowd. See his speeches for the miners unions, or the one at the million march against iraq, put him somewhere he can talk about stuff he believes in and he can draw and hold a crowd.

May has the charisma of a small scone. Farron makes her look dynamic.

I wonder how that plays out on the evening news every day.
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
15,771
Surprised to see your political stance in here considering you come across very different in the Trump thread. You would have ended up voting Trump if you apply the same criteria you are using here.
No, eh is a slefish voter and his cultural identity would have kept him at Clinton. If he was born white and in the same circumstances, that is prime Romney and prime Trump.
 

Untied

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,376
Fallon on BBC news talking about how this will give stability because after the election we will see a full 5 year term - even as they are utterly undermining the notion of a fixed 5 year term
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
102,957
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
More likely 0.001% of people earning £300k are taxed via PAYE. I reckon 99% of everyone earning even a third of that does everything possible to reduce their effective tax rate.
Which is common sense tbf. And a world away from the accusations of "tax evasion" you see thrown around when these things get discussed on here.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
29,068
Location
xG Zombie Nation
''I'm Jill Stein and I endorse this message''.
You don't see the irony in your poor political judgement/naively following your ideals has rendered the Labour party a political insignificance?

Corbyn has destroyed the Labour party. It is his acolytes that have guaranteed Tory rule for the foreseeable future.

Keep deluding yourself that a vote for anyone else except Labour is a vote for the Tories if it makes you feel better.

I am happy to support the Lib Dems in the hope that a centrist party can become prominent in British politics again.

End of story.
 

Nogbadthebad

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
4,609
Location
Wolverhampton
Fallon on BBC news talking about how this will give stability as.after the election we will see the full 5 year term - even as this utterly undermines the notion of a definite 5 year term
He is an utter charlatan.

Always at the back of my mind with him is the religious idiocy, he thinks being gay is wrong, same sex marriage is bad, and given the nature of organised religion, who knows what other nasty little beliefs he has.

One god bothering hypocrite in government now is bad enough, don't want another.
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
49,353
Location
Brizzle
No surprise there, she's just about as bad as it gets when it comes to debating. She got in through the back door last time and she's not prepared to show any face when pushing her way through the front door. Absolute weapon.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
29,068
Location
xG Zombie Nation
No surprise there, she's just about as bad as it gets when it comes to debating. She got in through the back door last time and she's not prepared to show any face when pushing her way through the front door. Absolute weapon.
The other parties should hold debates without her and leave an empty podium for the Tories there.
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
12,003
Location
Midlands UK
Time to vote for anyone but the Tory candidate.
Yeah this needs to be the method of foiling the Tories. Look who stands the best chance where you are of beating the Tories and vote for them. Well not UKIP of coarse but anybody besides them.

I would always do this anyway. Voting for somebody who has no chance of getting elected is almost as bad as not voting.
 

Fingeredmouse

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
3,580
Location
Glasgow
Which is common sense tbf. And a world away from the accusations of "tax evasion" you see thrown around when these things get discussed on here.
I don't see it as common sense and happily pay my tax. This might make me a a mug, but it I see it as a moral obligation. I do bugger all else to meaningfully help society.
 

altodevil

Poor man's Acquire Me
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
5,444
Yeah this needs to be the method of foiling the Tories. Look who stands the best chance where you are of beating the Tories and vote for them. Well not UKIP of coarse but anybody besides them.

I would always do this anyway. Voting for somebody who has no chance of getting elected is almost as bad as not voting.
Agree with everything except the last sentence.
 

Dobba

Full Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
23,839
Location
"You and your paper can feck off."
You don't see the irony in your poor political judgement/naively following your ideals has rendered the Labour party a political insignificance?

Corbyn has destroyed the Labour party. It is his acolytes that have guaranteed Tory rule for the foreseeable future.

Keep deluding yourself that a vote for anyone else except Labour is a vote for the Tories if it makes you feel better.

I am happy to support the Lib Dems in the hope that a centrist party can become prominent in British politics again.

End of story.
When accusing someone of poor political judgement its best not to complain about 'guaranteed Tory rule' and then say you're happy to support a party whose leader says he'd go into coalition with them again. Just saying.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
29,068
Location
xG Zombie Nation
When accusing someone of poor political judgement its best not to complain about 'guaranteed Tory rule' and then say you're happy to support a party whose leader says he'd go into coalition with them again. Just saying.
A coalition government is fine. I'm a pragmatist not an idealist. It will dilute The Tories like it did previously.
 

Untied

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,376
To be fair, the Tories:

- Raised the Personal Allowance to £11.5k (a Lib Dem policy) taking millions of poor and working class people out of the first income tax rate altogether.
- Introduced the National Living Wage, now at £7.50 per hour, and will likely rise to nearly £10 by 2020. (Two Labour Policies)
- Re-introduced vocational qualifications after Labour (the party of the working class) decided that working class jobs shouldn't be taught in school.
- Have said they are scrapping Tenancy fees. (A labour policy)
- Are building lots of houses (although still slower than the rate of building in the 60's to 80's)
- Gave everyone the opportunity to vote for Brexit.

If you are a low-earning working class voter, who has seen Eastern Europeans come in and do the same job you do for less, why would you vote Labour?
Raising the personal allowance is a bad policy.

(Helps rich people more than very poor - if you already earn less than personal allowance raise does nothing for you but it does give even the highest rate tax payers an extra 1k tax free

I've no idea how affordable this is, but really, if you want to reduce tax for the poorest you should add a sub 20k tax bracket that is say 15%
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
102,957
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
I don't see it as common sense and happily pay my tax. This might make me a a mug, but it I see it as a moral obligation. I do bugger all else to meaningfully help society.
I happily pay my tax too. However, if the revenue wants to give me some tax relief in return for (for example) investing in a sector that is deemed in need of private investment then I'm more than happy to do that. It's win win, as far as I'm concerned with no moral qualms at all.
 

DenisIrwin

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
2,337
I expect to see every reporter ask May if she intends to step down if she loses the election.
 

diarm

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
11,394
Location
Cork
@sammsky1 I think you are putting up the wrong aspect of your argument as the aim for the criticism you are getting here. Nobody is having a go at you for not voting Labour, or even for considering voting Tory - They are criticising you for some very poorly thought out and over simplified criticisms you have made about people in society who are less fortunate than you. Several posters have openly said they'll be voting Tory out of self interest and nobody has said a word to them. The anger you have generated comes from a viewpoint which comes across as nasty and arrogant.

You have on multiple occasions said you educated yourself. You did not - your parents educated you when they paid for you and your siblings to attend a private school and receive a leg up that the vast majority of society do not receive. You've said it's irrelevant what your parents did for a living, or their circumstances when they moved to the UK but it isn't - It both proves the privileges you were afforded while growing up and (depending on the industry they worked in) could potentially be used to help you understand why helping others helps yourself.

You have also explicitly said you work extremely hard and everybody could enjoy the same wealth you do if they worked as hard. I'm sorry mate but you have 20,000 posts on a Man Utd forum and have been able to spend several hours distracting yourself with political and economical arguments on a Tuesday afternoon - you don't work harder than the nurse who earns less than a third of your salary or as mentioned earlier, the hospital porter who earns half as much again.

All of that aside, I have no doubts you work very hard and earn the lifestyle you enjoy. It's just that the opportunities and luck which has accompanied your hard work has allowed you reach a level which many never will.

There are a million reasons for being poor; from mental illness and depression to poor luck in a business venture. There's work place discrimination or even major life events like unplanned single parent pregnancies or the death of a parent at a young or critical age.

You've said that none of that is your concern but it is. We all benefit from a society which helps those who need helping. The idea that the best and brightest of us will magically be confined to those who have the wealthiest parents or the luckiest circumstances is silly and if you have a business which employs staff, you want a bigger, better range of candidates to recruit from. If you sell commodities to the public, you want more people with more disposable income to spend on those products. If you value living in safety and security, you want less people driven to crime out of despair.
 

Mozza

It’s Carrick you know
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
23,352
Location
Let Rooney be Rooney
Amen to that.

But good luck convincing @Mozza that these people aren't basically the devil incarnate.

They're low hanging fruit for the Corbynites, of course. Envy is a powerful emotion. Any policy that is intended to make people who are "richer than you" a little less well off will always appeal. Whether or not these people are already contributing more than their fair share to the exchequer.
Not sure why I deserved to be singled out in this post but hey ho. I've no problem with people getting filthy rich, just pay your fecking taxes
 

Randall Flagg

Worst of the best
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
45,064
Location
Gorey
I'm just sorry I ever contributed to @sammsky1 's thread now. I've deleted my post in it.
Jesus christ

He just comes across as someone who is very, very frustrated at having to pay an excessive amount of tax. There is nothing wrong with that and completely understandable.

I was able to relate to exactly what he was commenting on. It really should not mean you need to disregard any other views he has had previously.
 

bri2013

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,547
no need for you to know.

The problem with these discussion is instead of being about understanding others views, it become personal and about right or wrong. I dont have to justify myself here.
When your parents came here with "Zilch" as you said earlier, how did they survive?
 

Untied

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,376
Amen to that.

But good luck convincing @Mozza that these people aren't basically the devil incarnate.

They're low hanging fruit for the Corbynites, of course. Envy is a powerful emotion. Any policy that is intended to make people who are "richer than you" a little less well off will always appeal. Whether or not these people are already contributing more than their fair share to the exchequer.
Of course the story of politics is actually people blaming those poorer than them
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
11,810
Location
Stamford Bridge
He is an utter charlatan.

Always at the back of my mind with him is the religious idiocy, he thinks being gay is wrong, same sex marriage is bad, and given the nature of organised religion, who knows what other nasty little beliefs he has.

One god bothering hypocrite in government now is bad enough, don't want another.
We don't really have much choice though, do we. If he was pushing that Christian anti-gay shit I wouldn't vote for them in a million years, but he's not. He's accepted the party position. Given the alternative is a god botherer who wants to destroy the NHS and return us to some Dickensian dystopia, I'm not sure what choice we have. At least I know what policies the Lib Dems stand for. Damned if I can say the same about Labour since Corbyns Brexit U-turn.
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
12,003
Location
Midlands UK
If tories get voted back in then there can be no complaints from the remain camp whatsoever
Of course they can. She wont get 50% of the vote. As of now she's polling at 42% That's not the 52% that voted for Brexit.

Besides just because an election goes way or another doesn't mean that everybody who voted against it have to fall in line and support what they voted against. In a democracy you still have the right to hold and voice your own opinions even if the majority don't agree with you.

The idea that an election result means that people can't speak out against the party that won is frightening and downright dictatorial. I think that the way it is normally done is to round dissidents and shoot them at football stadiums.

Anyway the whole Hard Brexit thing could become redundant if Le Penn wins the French Election. If both Britain and France exit the EU there wont be an EU left to negotiate with.
 

Mozza

It’s Carrick you know
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
23,352
Location
Let Rooney be Rooney
Yup, the wealthy are brilliant at teaching those poorer than themselves to punch down. Just schedule another benefits program on channel 5
 

Dobba

Full Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
23,839
Location
"You and your paper can feck off."
Stand in the way of some of the Tories more pernicious moves post Brexit e.g. if they try to reduce workers rights etc.
All the Tories would have to do is stick something about curing gay frogs into those bills and Tim would be forced to vote in favour of them. Principles n' shit.

But, in all seriousness, there is no way the Lib Dems get anywhere near enough to prevent the Tories doing anything they want. Be it on Brexit or anything else.
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
98,220
Location
Manchester
More likely 0.001% of people earning £300k are taxed via PAYE. I reckon 99% of everyone earning even a third of that does everything possible to reduce their effective tax rate.
You'd be surprised.

I've many clients in various sectors earning 7 figures who are taxed entirely through PAYE.

There's others with vastly differing income profiles but 99% is way off in my experience.
 

CassiusClaymore

Is it Gaizka Mendieta?
Scout
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
28,182
Location
None of your business mate
No surprise there, she's just about as bad as it gets when it comes to debating. She got in through the back door last time and she's not prepared to show any face when pushing her way through the front door. Absolute weapon.
Who needs tv debates when you've got Rupert Murdoch telling people who to vote and why. And also, boobs so...
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
39,424
Location
Birmingham
Just watch the Tories make this an incredibly low tax country.
On a side note, I think 45% on an £100k income is perfectly reasonable. Anything more than that is getting excessive.