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2023-24 Performances


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MadDogg

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Isn't that what McTominay does, B2B?
He generally appears in defence, midfield and certainly in the opponents box, so I would class that as B2B.
Previously yes, but this season he's basically been used as an attacking midfielder. We play with a DM and two AM's, not using anyone in what I'd class as a box-to-box role.

Hannibal was also used in an attacking midfield role this season, although his superior work-rate meant he probably did help the midfield a bit more than Scott does. But playing that advanced is one of the reasons I think he did struggle to get as involved as I'd like him to.
 

Borys

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Previously yes, but this season he's basically been used as an attacking midfielder. We play with a DM and two AM's, not using anyone in what I'd class as a box-to-box role.

Hannibal was also used in an attacking midfield role this season, although his superior work-rate meant he probably did help the midfield a bit more than Scott does. But playing that advanced is one of the reasons I think he did struggle to get as involved as I'd like him to.
Exactly. One thing is he has not impressed this season, but another is like @Fortitude mentioned there simply is no place for B2B players in ETH system. You are either a part of back 5, or front 5 - but you need to be a direct goal threat or Antony to get into the attacking formation.
Even Mount transfer "makes sense" now as we clearly see what ETH is trying to do. It's not like he doesn't have an idea, it's just unfortunate he has THIS idea of playing football in EPL (I think we've been alright in CL, it's just individual mistakes caused us to be in this situation).

So in the end probably van de Beek is still more of a goal threat than Hannibial (as vdb actually plays shadow striker role by default) = gets the nod over Hannibal.
 

sugar_kane

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Not read the last few pages but I'm assuming it's full of loonies saying he's the answer to our midfield woes even though he's looked shit every time he's played for the first team?

Sell.
 

red woppit

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Previously yes, but this season he's basically been used as an attacking midfielder. We play with a DM and two AM's, not using anyone in what I'd class as a box-to-box role.

Hannibal was also used in an attacking midfield role this season, although his superior work-rate meant he probably did help the midfield a bit more than Scott does. But playing that advanced is one of the reasons I think he did struggle to get as involved as I'd like him to.
I've seen him close to the back four recieving the ball from them, and generally he plays the ball straight back to them. I believe it was McTominay who made the poor effort to collect the ball from a defender on Saturday when the Bournemouth player got in front of him and created the first goal, is that what part of the AM role is?
 

red woppit

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Not read the last few pages but I'm assuming it's full of loonies saying he's the answer to our midfield woes even though he's looked shit every time he's played for the first team?

Sell.
A bit disrespectful calling people loonies just because they think different to you.
However, some posters on here just want to see Hannibal get a run of games, so we can see if he's sh*t or not, although you have already made up your mind, which is fine, everyone has their own opinion.
 

Borys

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I've seen him close to the back four recieving the ball from them, and generally he plays the ball straight back to them. I believe it was McTominay who made the poor effort to collect the ball from a defender on Saturday when the Bournemouth player got in front of him and created the first goal, is that what part of the AM role is?
Yes. It was Bruno, the other AM, who was even deeper in our own half who made that pass to McTominay. We got the ball back and were going for an attack and McTominay was positioned to get the ball, pass sideways and start running towards the goal - pretty much all that he does in midfield. Not sure what's your point here. Notice how in build up McTominay is by design not getting involved and it's Bruno dropping deeper more frequently than Scott.
 

MadDogg

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I've seen him close to the back four recieving the ball from them, and generally he plays the ball straight back to them. I believe it was McTominay who made the poor effort to collect the ball from a defender on Saturday when the Bournemouth player got in front of him and created the first goal, is that what part of the AM role is?
Being an attacking midfielder doesn't mean you don't come back at all. Just like being a defensive midfielder doesn't mean you never go forward at all. Or a winger/inside forward doesn't get back, and a fullback doesn't go forward, etc. It's about your general positioning and movement, and in the majority of games this season McTominay has played as high as Bruno as an attacking midfielder. Hence why everybody is complaining about our midfield setup which is making it very hard to build with the ball and which is also leaving us very open without the ball.

Basically, for most of his time here Scott played as a box-to-box midfielder that a lot of people mistook as a defensive midfielder because he provided so little actually going forward. Then for 18 months (last season and the 6 months under Rangnick) he actually did play as a DM most of the time. Now this season he's playing as an attacking midfielder.
 

red woppit

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Yes. It was Bruno, the other AM, who was even deeper in our own half who made that pass to McTominay. We got the ball back and were going for an attack and McTominay was positioned to get the ball, pass sideways and start running towards the goal - pretty much all that he does in midfield. Not sure what's your point here. Notice how in build up McTominay is by design not getting involved and it's Bruno dropping deeper more frequently than Scott.
My point is that he appears deep in our half on numerous occasions, my interpretation of an AM would be a player who generally finds space around the half way line, receives the ball and either turns and attacks the defence or lays the ball of and then runs forward.
I would never think that a purely AM player would go that deep into his own half, to me that is a B2B player, which apparently ETH does not employ anymore.
 

Borys

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My point is that he appears deep in our half on numerous occasions, my interpretation of an AM would be a player who generally finds space around the half way line, receives the ball and either turns and attacks the defence or lays the ball of and then runs forward.
I would never think that a purely AM player would go that deep into his own half, to me that is a B2B player, which apparently ETH does not employ anymore.
In this situation we have been pushed back to our own 3rd so everyone was defending, I don't think this is a proof that they are not AMs. It's not like AMs don't defend, just like wingers they need to track back at least.
 

tomaldinho1

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Not read the last few pages but I'm assuming it's full of loonies saying he's the answer to our midfield woes even though he's looked shit every time he's played for the first team?

Sell.
Why would you sell a 20 year old who looks half decent even if he's just a squad player? This isn't FM, you don't just sell everyone.

To my mind in the current setup he's a great sub for McT if we can go ahead, less runs forward but a lot nippier and aggressive on the press. Ideally McT gets replaced for next season but we work with what we have.
 

Bastian

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Yeah. You're either an AM or a DM in that system and he is neither, so effectively, there's nowhere for him to play.

Piecing it together, Hannibal was tasked with playing AM during preseason and the collective disappointment in that was it didn't give him a chance to exhibit his skills that are nearly all CM-related. In hindsight, it looks like that was the test run for the season proper to see if he could slot into the planned system up top.

If there was so little intention of actually playing a functional midfield, why even bother keep him here for the season when he could've been at a PL club getting PT and ironing out his game?
I certainly don't think he looked unimpressive in pre-season. And the one time he played that role from the start was against Palace in the cup and he was very efficient. With regards to the whole midfield conundrum, I do think Erik will settle on two deeper midfielders soon enough. And I suspect it will be Mainoo and Amrabat, until Casemiro is fit and he'd come in for the latter.

It's a massive concern independent of anything else.
That's a worry I share. People ask who are these youth players, and aside from Mejbri you obviously have Pellistri who wanted to go out on loan and get vital minutes but was asked to stay to never play. Now, I'm not sure Pellistri is good enough but you can understand if he'll feel cheated here. Amad coming back will be a bit of a litmus test. The other disappointing thing for me was getting Reguilon in on loan and shipping Fernandez out on loan.

Not read the last few pages but I'm assuming it's full of loonies saying he's the answer to our midfield woes even though he's looked shit every time he's played for the first team?

Sell.
Only your post so far.
 

red woppit

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Being an attacking midfielder doesn't mean you don't come back at all. Just like being a defensive midfielder doesn't mean you never go forward at all. It's about your general positioning and movement, and in the majority of games this season McTominay has played as high as Bruno. Hence why everybody is complaining about our midfield setup which is making it very hard to build with the ball and which is also leaving us very open without the ball.

Basically, for most of his time here Scott played as a box-to-box midfielder that a lot of people mistook as a defensive midfielder because he provided so little actually going forward. Then for 18 months (last season and the 6 months under Rangnick) he actually did play as a DM most of the time. Now this season he's playing as an attacking midfielder.
In this situation we have been pushed back to our own 3rd so everyone was defending, I don't think this is a proof that they are not AMs. It's not like AMs don't defend, just like wingers they need to track back at least.
In this situation we have been pushed back to our own 3rd so everyone was defending, I don't think this is a proof that they are not AMs. It's not like AMs don't defend, just like wingers they need to track back at least.
Ok. I don't think I'll ever come to terms with analysing the difference between an AM who drops deep when we defend and a B2B player who would be in the same position when we defend.
 

Borys

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Being an attacking midfielder doesn't mean you don't come back at all. Just like being a defensive midfielder doesn't mean you never go forward at all. Or a winger/inside forward doesn't get back, and a fullback doesn't go forward, etc. It's about your general positioning and movement, and in the majority of games this season McTominay has played as high as Bruno as an attacking midfielder. Hence why everybody is complaining about our midfield setup which is making it very hard to build with the ball and which is also leaving us very open without the ball.

Basically, for most of his time here Scott played as a box-to-box midfielder that a lot of people mistook as a defensive midfielder
because he provided so little actually going forward. Then for 18 months (last season and the 6 months under Rangnick) he actually did play as a DM most of the time. Now this season he's playing as an attacking midfielder.
Exactly this.

We thought that ETH is going for a setup in which Mount takes the hybrid Eriksen/Fred role (as he has a bit of both) and will be allowed to get forward (Fred was allowed to get forward because he could track back; for the same reason Eriksen was not allowed to go forward that much because that would effectively take him out of the equation if we lost the ball as he has no recovery pace - which is why only with Eriksen we played midfield of two).

It wasn't until the Lens preseason game and opening game vs Wolves that the truth was uncovered that Mount isn't going to play as B2B midfielder. And this is still the case now, the difference is McTominay is actually scoring goals. What doesn't mean that the setup is right in the first place, because it's completely flawed, and we need to go back to 4231 unless until we get a Varane and Martinez back.
 

Based Adnan

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6 mins vs Everton 2 weeks ago aside, the last time he got minutes was nearly 1.5 months ago

May as well play him vs Bayern then
 

Bobski

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Play him at Anfield, take bets on how long he lasts before getting sent off, will be a worthwhile distraction from the carnage.
 

MadDogg

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Ok. I don't think I'll ever come to terms with analysing the difference between an AM who drops deep when we defend and a B2B player who would be in the same position when we defend.
I mean, going by that logic there basically is no such position as an AM, as they all get back sometimes. In fact every single midfielder out there would be classed as a box-to-box, from a player like Makelele through to someone like Ozil.

I would also disagree that he's normally in the same defensive position as somebody classed as a B2B. Take note of McTominay this season and you'll constantly see him pushed up the field, with the opposition winning the ball and breaking towards our defence while Scott just jogs back far behind them. The fact that sometimes that opposition attack breaks down and they'll pass the ball around long enough for McTominay to get into position to help defend doesn't change that. If he were playing as a B2B it would mean he's always ridiculously out of position.
 

flappyjay

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6 mins vs Everton 2 weeks ago aside, the last time he got minutes was nearly 1.5 months ago

May as well play him vs Bayern then
Same thing with Pellistri getting his 1st start of the season against bayern a few months ago. Then varane misses weeks on the bench and then yes lets him start against Bayern.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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His limited opportunities are going to decrease now that we’re out of two cups. Should probably look at a January loan, I can see his development stalling at this rate. Same for Pellestri.
 

Bwuk

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He's never a left winger, and he's barely played so I wouldn't look into a 10 min cameo too much.

I agree he probably needs to leave, even for his own sake. He won't get a run in the side, and he's at an age now where he needs to play regularly.
 

mavradal

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He's easily the most overrated youngster since I started following Man Utd in the 90's, I don't see any quality in him besides high levels of energy which unfortunately also ends up being wasted due to his chaotic behaviour. I really hope his minutes will go to other more promising players like Gore or Hansen-Aarøen.
 

sugar_kane

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He's easily the most overrated youngster since I started following Man Utd in the 90's, I don't see any quality in him besides high levels of energy which unfortunately also ends up being wasted due to his chaotic behaviour. I really hope his minutes will go to other more promising players like Gore or Hansen-Aarøen.
Careful, I criticised him yesterday and had about three posters jump on me within minutes.
 

Lash

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He's never a left winger, and he's barely played so I wouldn't look into a 10 min cameo too much.

I agree he probably needs to leave, even for his own sake. He won't get a run in the side, and he's at an age now where he needs to play regularly.
There were some very basic and worrying things that he did wrong though, i.e. judging the flight of the ball, protecting it, controlling it, etc. All things Mainoo did very easily. I don't think he's cut out for it here, he was good against Burnley but that's about it, apart from his consolation goal.
 

In Rainbows

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He's never a left winger, and he's barely played so I wouldn't look into a 10 min cameo too much.

I agree he probably needs to leave, even for his own sake. He won't get a run in the side, and he's at an age now where he needs to play regularly.
Forget it, people think every youngster should play well no matter the position. It reminds me of the Gomes situation except Gomes was actually an attacker, but after failing there, it felt like a really easy decision that his attributes were best suited deeper.

Even the preseason highlighted this chasm. For whatever reason, he just doesn't feel as comfortable in more advanced areas. Maybe it's because he needs more confidence built up by being on the ball more, or maybe it's simply a matter of him feeling more comfortable in possession with more space available for him to turn to (no matter the congestion of opposing shirts).

Instead of trying to fit a square peg into a hole, just play him where he might fare better. If he fails there, then that's the end of that. Whatever the case, you think United fans are just making it up that he's actually good on the ball?
 

Bastian

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Careful, I criticised him yesterday and had about three posters jump on me within minutes.
Not really, this is what you said

Not read the last few pages but I'm assuming it's full of loonies saying he's the answer to our midfield woes even though he's looked shit every time he's played for the first team?

Sell.
It's not because you don't rate him, it's just being rude. There are plenty of people who already think he's shite.

As for the poster you replied to, saying he's the most overrated youngster we've had since the 90s, that's quite funny.
 

kundalini

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I expected Mejbri to perform better than that, given that he was fresh and there were lots of exhausted players on the pitch by the time he came on.

Looks like at best a medium to longer term project. Needs playing time but hasn't been performing at a level that merits more than he's been getting.

Before the season I thought Hannibal needed another season on loan in the Championship then a year in the PL or another one of the top 5 European leagues to prepare him for the challenge of competing for a place at United. If you aren't quite ready, then you don't play. Even with tons of injuries to midfielders, he's barely in the picture.
 
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RikRuud

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Could be a decent little player but not at United. If we get a decent offer in Jan we should be accepting it.
 

Oranges038

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Came on, ran around a bit.

Not in the same class as Mainoo, but he did about as well as can be expected from him at this stage.
 

THE ZOL

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Hannibal needs to leave United to save his career. The trajectory of his potential has been stalled due to the fact he has either been unfortunate, poorly advised or made bad choices.

In his academy days, the boy was a pure #10 or an #8. He was an incredible talent with maturity beyond his years (on the ball). He played with his head up. He had an amazing eye for pass and although his execution/weight of pass was lacking. Nonetheless, he had the amazing trait of making slaloming runs through the middle. Not quite the agility and flexibility of Musiala, but his close control was a key asset that could have taken him far.


The first issue was the loan to Birmingham. This wasted a year of his career. It was a defensive 5-3-2 team that pumped the ball long up to Troy Deeney. The midfield was often totally bypassed. On the occaisons I tried to keep an eye on their games, I frequently saw Hannibal come to collect the ball from the centre-back or the keeper and be totally ignored.

There is a reason why Jude Bellingham’s little brother Jobe literally made a sideways move from Birmingham to Sunderland, despite their ties to the club. During the Eustice managerial regime it was not a place for technically gifted midfielders at all.

The second issue was that when he started playing for the Tunisian national team, he was pigeonholed as a sort of water carrier and supporting attack for the array of tricky experienced attacking midfielders and wingers that Tunis traditionally have: Msakni and Sliti. For Tunis he doesn’t express himself much with the ball. He just plays it safe.

Now he is at a United team where, even after scoring an absolute banger against Brighton, he still appears sporadically. Even so, he’s in a dysfunctional team that also plays long and direct. Far more experienced players than him in Mount and Bruno struggle in this team, so it’s expected that a player whose development has stagnated will also look terrible here.

He should go to somewhere like Germany where they play with the ball on the floor in order to get the best out of him.
 

aeh1991

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He's a player I'd sell with a buyback clause, like how a lot of the other top clubs would do. Hopefully our new board gets these kind of deals done better. He is very talented, but needs playing time and work on his deficiencies. He could go through a similar development like Angel Gomes at Lille if given enough time.