Despite him playing his worst football at the club, but I dont think him or the other CBs are our main problem. If we want to see a major improvement in the team, we should invest heavily in CM, DMF and two new full backs that actually know how to defend.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Because of Southgate. Maguire works in a low block system.. Which is also why he was quite good when we where playing low block counter under Ole.
As soon as you ask the team to play higher up the pitch he turns to shit.
He is a good defender in the right system. But he will never work in a system that plays a high line.
Which CB would actually be good in a high line and a midfield of Matic/McT/Fred/Pogba?
None, but Maguire isn't good in a high line regardless
Maguire has been shambles this year in all aspects and would have been shit in a deeper defensive system also, but getting him out of the team, and seeing how equally Varane and Lindelof have struggled is a showcase that our defensive problems are much deeper than some think.
Exactly this,
Maguire has become a scapegoat for our deeper midfield and full back issues. That's not to say Maguire hasn't been culpable on occasions, but he is not the problem, nor is Lindelof/Varane.
It takes 10minutes of watching us play against any semi decent side to realize how easy we are to break through. Our midfielder are like training cones, and that affects the full backs also not just the CB imo.
I didn’t disagree. Im simply saying if the intention is to fix those problems but also move to a high line. He is not fit for purpose.
Our current defensive problems stem from not defending as a team and a shambles of fullbacks and no DM. However fixing those things then moving to a highline Maguire will have problems still
All of the above is correct. Doesnt change the fact he cant play in a high line system. He lacks the pace, agility and ball handlings skills for it.
Right, I never knew England winning games 4-0 and what not, they play a complete low block.
So Maguire has looked shit because we play a higher line, why did we concede 4 against Brighton? Maguire wasn't playing, we still looked shit.
You can score more than one goal in a low block counter system? Especially if you get ahead the opposing team will have to take even more chances, opening up even further, and thus inviting more counterattacking play.
Because he isnt the only problem? Lindelöf isnt good enough either. We lack the players for a high line system. We dont have a proper DM.
There are many issues.
For that system to work these issues need to be adressed.
A dead rubber game at the end of a horrible season.
At the start of the season the team made a tactical change to push the defensive higher up the pitch. Granted other things also went wrong but this was a shift which put Maguire under a ton a pressure which he didn’t recover from.
The whole team became a shambles and we cant really analyse many performances after November really.
Maguire is not a bad defender and he is not THE problem. But he will be A problem if we want to adopt a high line.
This is my point, everyone is blaming it on Maguire but its not just him, its the system which is rubbish. We do not have a system that allows us to defend properly.
I'm not sure that's the case.
I think thats what is, ultimately, the most valuable thing about having had Rangnick here before Ten Hag. It has exposed that playing any kind of high line system is impossible with our current players, and thus shows how much of a rebuild is needed.
I think that is not fair. Each and every player should be looked at post November too.
I dont care, dead rubber or not, you cannot play for Manutd and think you can turn up and not try. Everyone has to look at themselves, the hierarchy need to look at the playing staff and get rid of majority of them due to their lack of attitude and desire.
I mean at this point he's exposed the fact that these players cannot play in any system.
4-2-2-2 didnt work 4-3-3 didnt work 4-2-3-1 didnt work 5-3-2 didnt work.
The full back issue for me is just quality, as in Telles and Dalot are simply not good enough, however you are right in the fact that the midfield being porous does leave the whole back four exposed and often the fullbacks are high up the pitch with no cover in the middle, leaving the back two hopelessly alone and prone to mistakes.
They did work better before Ole tried to adopt a more progressive system this season.
We have lost games at the end of the season under Fergie we shouldn’t have. Unfortunately when there is nothing to play for these things happen.
I wouldn't judge too many post November because theteam was clearly in a dysfuntional state. Unless you really believe every single outfield player bar Ronaldo is absolute shite…
Besides the point anyway, main point was I don’t believe Maguire suits and aggresive high defensive line.
My personal opinion we need an entire new back 5 plus midfield. Maybe some of those can be filled with you prospects. Yes thats right I was never onboard with the Varane signing.
Yeah we have under Ole, but lets not get it twisted, we still had alot to play for, CL, FA cup, Top 4. So whatever we say about the players, they have to take big responsibilities for being so crap since November.
Well, we can't say Maguire doesn't suit this or that, then say cant just the players this season.
I mean, alot of outfield players are actually shit, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, AWB, Dalot, Telles, McTominay, Pogba, Rashford have all been 3/10 this season at best. Out of those, how many do we think can play for a mentally strong team?
We know Rashford, Shaw, Pogba are mentally weak, we saw this when Jose had a go at them, they couldn't hack it and this season again they have showed their mental ability.
I got you and I agree. Maguire is not suited for a high line, or that's what I think just like you. Fixing the midfield will help the defenders and get a hold of a defense that concede almost 60 goals. After that I think we can focus on improving the CBs.
If Ten Hag wants to play a highline then Maguire and de Gea need to go.
Because England do not have better options. He's better than Mings yes, not sure what point that's proving because Mings is also shit.
He's blamed more than our other defenders because he's made more mistakes this season and had fewer good games. You know like Lindelof was also our most criticised when he had a bad season? Outrageous concept i know.
Our entire backline individually have had seasons where they've been poor and rightly got the criticism they earned each time. Maguire isn't above that and i don't know why some of you believe he should be.
Both Telles and Dalot make Buttner look like prime Marcelo. However I doubt we are going to address that issue this summer.
Nothing worse than a poster taking a general point i.e. that social media has too much influence over our fanbase and then making it very specific to make it sound ludicrous.
It happens very often on here and it's a classic method used by people who are losing an argument or who find they can't directly address the point(s) being made.
Of course nobody is saying that Goldbridge and Goldbridge alone is influencing millions of our fans globally but you see it so often now across all manner of subjects - people with prominent voices on social media have far more influence than they should have relative to their actual credentials/understanding.
Also, nobody is trying to play the superior intellect. Some of us make simple, logical points like "if Maguire is so bad, why do we have a much better record with him than without him?" or "if Maguire is so bad, then why has he been able to be a key part of a very successful England side?" or "if Maguire is so bad, then how did we finish 2nd, above Liverpool, last season with him basically ever-present?" or "if it's purely a case of Maguire being bad, why don't WC-winning, three-times CL winning CB Raphael Varane or Swedish National team captain Victor Lindelof look any better?"
These are all very valid questions and nobody ever answers them. Instead they respond with a load of cliches and nonsense. Most of which you can see directly in the opinion(s) of prominent people on social media...hence my suspicion these people don't really understand our defensive issues and are just lashing out angrily, repeating the frustrations of equally unqualified and reactionary voices on social media platforms
I mean England have Stones, Coady, Tomori, Guehi then Mings, so I dont get your point either.
Lindelof was criticised when we had a good defensive season.
See, this is the problem with fans. Blaming just the back line when they get no help from anyone else. Agree that all defenders have had a shit season, no one saying Maguire should not be criticised, he should but just as much as the person next to him and more importantly infront of him.
Go watch the Liverpool v Spurs game back, Kulukevski doubled up on Diaz and done a job on Thiago. Bentancur and Hojberg protected the back 3, made sure passes didnt get to their front line with ease.
I'll just address this bit then...what I should have said is some people think that way.
Some people believe the English players get let off the hook too easily by their mates in the media and believe they are the problem at United. These people also generally believe that the likes of Paul Pogba have been unfairly scapegoated.
Now, if I had to make a list of 'most criticised players' at United this season, I would probably say 'Shaw, Maguire, Lingard and Rashford'. I would include Pogba in a general list of 'most criticised over the last four/five seasons', but this season less so, because he's not played that regularly. Two of those 'most criticised' I have been very critical of myself, two of whom I have defended regularly because I think it's over the top.
For me personally I like to think Nationality has absolutely no bearing on my assessment of players. I definitely would agree that Rashford was protected by the press for far too long because he was an 'English Wonderkid', whereas Martial was written off far more quickly, despite a similar career trajectory and almost identical stats. So there is perhaps something in Nationality playing a part in perception of a player in the media for sure....but it's generally on a case-by-case basis rather than specific hard and fast rules
For example, in contrast, I don't agree that Maguire has ever had that level of 'English' protection, personally I think the press were licking their lips when we paid £80m, desperate to stick the knife into us again for another high-profile, 'failed' signing.
I do think Pogba gets plenty of stick...but then I personally think he has deserved it at times with the behaviour of his agent, some of his interviews, his body language on the pitch and his seemingly constant holidays. Now, I wouldn't say I have been 'influenced' here. I don't like his agent coming out and constantly upsetting the club on the eve of big games. Maguire or Shaw's agents haven't done that. I don't like how he never breaks sweat and ambles about the pitch. I'd like to see an extra 10/15%, a bit more intensity, more sprints etc...I don't like some of his quotes in the media, fliting with other clubs...again, Maguire and Shaw haven't done that. So I do think I am being consistent.
Likewise, there are players I really don't rate, like Fred and McTominay....but I never for one minute question their attitude, their commitment, their behaviour, their effort etc...I just happen to think they are not that good. I can separate my feelings about the ability of a player with what I think about their general attitude and commitment, as can many others...but a large percentage can't do that.
Buttner
I had forgotten him!I would like to think we will at least get a RB this window, especially if the reports of AWB going out on loan are true.
Okay I do believe several have answered these questions several times, but we have so many posts here every day I cannot blame you for not seing them. I will try my best to answer.
Maguire is bad when we try to play a higher line and more progressive style, which is why he was quite good last year, but atrocious this year. This season our record is pretty much the same with or without him.
England play a system that suits Maguire. Low block, counter. They even have extra coverage for their CB's. In this kind of system Maguire is good.
Last season we played a different system and Liverpool where hit with injuries. Especially VVD was a massive blow to them.
Varane has at times looked good this season, but it has been hit and miss and overall dissapointing. Lindelöf has had very good matches and absolutely atrocious ones.
My biggest issue relates to who is our new manager and his style of play. Maguire lacks the abilities for it. And I dont believe Lindelöf is good enough either.
Why do people always talk about a 'high line' like it's purely about centre backs chasing back towards their own goal and the only players suited need extreme pace?
Because it is (more or less) exactly that. High line means that your defenders will be in situations where they will must catch attackers/close them quickly.
Maguire looks ridiculous in those situations.
And fullbacks
It really isn't, it's just a lazy argument about one aspect of defending. Ajax often use Daley Blind at CB. City's CBs aren't lightening quick. Nearly every game I see Liverpool they are bailed out by Alisson from balls in behind despite having Van Dijk.
There's still a very capable defender in Maguire. His confidence is obviously non-existent right now, and he's suffered from being the defensive focal point of a team with zero cohesion or defensive solidarity. Our back line gets **** all protection from those in front and our CBs look comically exposed. Even Varane has gone from world-beater to 'fraud' over the course of a single season, despite being injured for most of it. You could dump prime Rio or Vidic in this team and they'd look just as ridiculous when the likes of Liverpool, City, or even the mighty Brighton waltz through our midfield and charge on goal. We could spend another £200m on CBs and they'll still look shit if it remains open season across the rest of the pitch.
You dont need extreme pace, but you need some pace and even more importantly agility to be able to turn quick and change direction. VVD and Blind are both significantly more agile than Maguire and both are faster than him....
People talk about the high line tactic as if it's the default for all football teams, but the reality is it's very high-risk and generally restricted to the top tier clubs. It requires 11 highly skilled, cohesive players who fully understand the risk involved before attempting to use it; misplaced passes are a no-no, your strikers have to press as if their lives depend on it and your midfield must know how to compress a football pitch.
We're nowhere near that level, not even close, and won't be for God knows how many years. We don't even know how to defend as a unit yet.
Walk before we can run people.
We're nowhere near that level, not even close, and won't be for God knows how many years. We don't even know how to defend as a unit yet.
Walk before we can run people.
I do agree with the gist of this post, it’s best to judge in a case by case basis. I should add that the criticism for Maguire has been over the top this season and I agree that the social media memefication plays a big role in that. He’s been very poor in many of our games but he’s not a poor player which he’s proven in recent seasons and his alternatives haven’t been much better which points to a wider issue. I also think Maguire and Pogba get held to a higher standard due to their price tags, which whether right or wrong is usually the case in football, and with Maguire also being captain it adds extra scrutiny. I hope he does regain form because he’s our most progressive defender on the ball and we miss that when he’s out of the side.
A goalkeeper comfortable starting high and midfield and forward line working hard to prevent balls over the top and in behind are far more important than the pace and agility of the CB. It's focusing on the one scenario of sprinting back towards your own goal, which yes he would be weak in but are also quite rare to see if the system is working.
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