[mikeyt]

I don't think Maguire has been terrible in our first couple of games, there have been far worse for us, but the narrative on here will always be to point the finger at him because of what he cost us, what he earns and that he's the captain of the club.

That being said Maguire is overall an awful footballer, shows absolutely zero leadership and is so unbelievably slow and cumbersome that regardless of who plays next to him we will always struggle defensively. Maybe we should go with the sweeper formation where Martinez could play the sweeper role behind Maguire and Varane? Normally that's the job of the goalkeeper these days but given we have De Gea that's never going to happen.

Truth be told both Maguire and De Gea are major problems on serious money who we just won't be able to shift for any money. But for all the talk about our midfield and yes it is absolutely shite. We need to start from the back and playing Varane and Martinez as our starting CB partnership is a start, we can then look at replacing De Gea and eventually find a way to shift Maguire even if it means taking a huge loss on him. De Gea and Maguire have been the mainstays in this defence in the last couple years and we're not getting any better, if that doesn't tell ETH something then I don't know what will.

 

[Lyng]

Truth be told both Maguire and De Gea are major problems on serious money who we just won't be able to shift for any money. But for all the talk about our midfield and yes it is absolutely shite. We need to start from the back and playing Varane and Martinez as our starting CB partnership is a start, we can then look at replacing De Gea and eventually find a way to shift Maguire even if it means taking a huge loss on him. De Gea and Maguire have been the mainstays in this defence in the last couple years and we're not getting any better, if that doesn't tell ETH something then I don't know what will.

This I agree with 100%.
If we want to play progressive high line football and play out from the back, these two need to go. Regardless of how much money we loose. Get rid of them. And get proper replacement.

 

[JB7]

Regardless of Dalot, Maguire playing that pass when he can clearly see he’s under pressure is still a fault. The pass simply isn’t on. Especially not when both defenders have split out wide. Maguire can see the whole play in front of him and should see that.

No doubt the manager has given instructions to play out from the back. However, it doesn’t mean a player doesn’t use his brain to play the pass regardless of the scenario.

Dalot pass wasn’t on. But the correct pass in this situation was to go long or out wide to the wingers. Less risk. When the short pass is on, you play the system. If the pass isn’t on, you have to go for an alternative. Opponents aren’t going to let you play how you want all the time.

Except they are clearly being told to avoid going long which is why they proceeded with that type of play (and the goal kicks) when they were causing issues. Like I say, the only player not being pressed was Dalot and he was directly being told by the player on the ball, and the captain may I add, to move into the space and he did not do that. That is what caused the issue in the first instance. What follows I agree isn’t good enough by either Maguire or Eriksen but the reality is that it’s a non issue if Dalot takes the instruction in the first place.

 

[Chief123]

Except they are clearly being told to avoid going long which is why they proceeded with that type of play (and the goal kicks) when they were causing issues. Like I say, the only player not being pressed was Dalot and he was directly being told by the player on the ball, and the captain may I add, to move into the space and he did not do that. That is what caused the issue in the first instance. What follows I agree isn’t good enough by either Maguire or Eriksen but the reality is that it’s a non issue if Dalot takes the instruction in the first place.

A manager will give the instruction to play short from the back. However he will expect players to use their brain. If that pass isn’t on, you don’t play it even if that’s our philosophy. No manager is that stupid. If every team know we will only ever play a short pass, then it becomes incredibly easy to press and very predictable. Their defence could literally step up into our half. So no the only option isn’t always to go short.

It was pretty evident De gea started going long second half so it’s clearly not a “only ever play short” philosophy.

Dalot didn’t make himself available very well. But Maguire is still at fault. It’s a terrible pass which was never on.

 

[saik]

Except they are clearly being told to avoid going long which is why they proceeded with that type of play (and the goal kicks) when they were causing issues. Like I say, the only player not being pressed was Dalot and he was directly being told by the player on the ball, and the captain may I add, to move into the space and he did not do that. That is what caused the issue in the first instance. What follows I agree isn’t good enough by either Maguire or Eriksen but the reality is that it’s a non issue if Dalot takes the instruction in the first place.

I've asked this question in this thread but I'll direct it to you specifically since you think Dalot was wrongly positioned and was not available for a pass. Was there any issue with Maguire chipping the ball to Dalot? He had ample amount of time and the moment when both Brentford players were on to him, he could have lifted it over to Dalot who was literally unmarked. Genuinely curious as to why people don't think it was on.

 

[JB7]

A manager will give the instruction to play short from the back. However he will expect players to use their brain. If that pass isn’t on, you don’t play it even if that’s our philosophy. No manager is that stupid. If every team know we will only ever play a short pass, then it becomes incredibly easy to press and very predictable. Their defence could literally step up into our half. So no the only option isn’t always to go short.

It was pretty evident De gea started going long second half so it’s clearly not a “only ever play short” philosophy.

Dalot didn’t make himself available very well. But Maguire is still at fault. It’s a terrible pass which was never on.

I said he was at fault, just as Eriksen was. But you look to the root of the issue and that is quite clearly Dalot not making himself available when he was the only free man available for a simple pass. He was even given a direct instruction by his captain to make himself available and he failed to do so. Whatever happens from that point, Dalot has put him teammates under massive pressure by hiding.

 

[Lyng]

I said he was at fault, just as Eriksen was. But you look to the root of the issue and that is quite clearly Dalot not making himself available when he was the only free man available for a simple pass. He was even given a direct instruction by his captain to make himself available and he failed to do so. Whatever happens from that point, Dalot has put him teammates under massive pressure by hiding.

He had plenty of time to pass it. He did the ONE thing he should never do in that situation and we got punished. He lacks awareness and is slow in decision making. We cannot play from the back with Maguire and De Gea.

 

[Cristiano_RAFC]

I can't bare to look at his face anymore. Just seeing him or just reading his name in a line-up infuriates me because for me he embodies the shambles our club is in right now. Take him out and put an actual footballer in the team instead. That would be a good start for any manager managing this club. Joke of a captain too.

 

[JB7]

I've asked this question in this thread but I'll direct it to you specifically since you think Dalot was wrongly positioned and was not available for a pass. Was there any issue with Maguire chipping the ball to Dalot? He had ample amount of time and the moment when both Brentford players were on to him, he could have lifted it over to Dalot who was literally unmarked. Genuinely curious as to why people don't think it was on.

Confidence I’d imagine. They’d just gone 1-0 down and frankly the game may as well end when we go behind at the moment such is the confidence in the whole team. It’s also an unnecessary complication, a chipped pass is a slow pass so it’s more likely Dalot would be pressed upon controlling the ball while facing his own goal (if he could even do that, which lets be real is always 50:50 with Dalot), whereas pulling out wide allows for a quicker pass than can be received on the half turn.

He had plenty of time to pass it. He did the ONE thing he should never do in that situation and we got punished. He lacks awareness and is slow in decision making. We cannot play from the back with Maguire and De Gea.

Switch Dalot and Maguire round and you lot would be giving Maguire pelters for not pulling into the available space when the player on the ball was telling him to. It’s pretty much a simple witch-hunt at this stage where everything that goes wrong in the game is put as Maguires fault even when there are other players clearly much more at fault in a situation. It wasn’t even one of the four goals ffs.

 

[Tibs]

Captaincy really should have been taken from him.

Is he a leader? No
Is he brilliant at his job? No
Is he ever 'generally good' at his job? No
Does he inspire confidence? No
Is he a motivator? No
Is he someone you would go to for advice? No
If you were a centre back, and we're joining Leicester, would you go to him for advice? No

Take the captaincy from him and let him focus on his main job, its an extra pressure he can do without.

 

[JB7]

Captaincy really should have been taken from him.

Is he a leader? No
Is he brilliant at his job? No
Is he ever 'generally good' at his job? No
Does he inspire confidence? No
Is he a motivator? No
Is he someone you would go to for advice? No
If you were a centre back, and we're joining Leicester, would you go to him for advice? No

Take the captaincy from him and let him focus on his main job, its an extra pressure he can do without.

Cool. So who gets yesses to all those questions then?

 

[izak]

How long does he have left on his current contract?

 

[Chief123]

I said he was at fault, just as Eriksen was. But you look to the root of the issue and that is quite clearly Dalot not making himself available when he was the only free man available for a simple pass. He was even given a direct instruction by his captain to make himself available and he failed to do so. Whatever happens from that point, Dalot has put him teammates under massive pressure by hiding.

I can’t accept Dalot was the root of the problem. He didn’t make the problem easier but there was plenty of time for Maguire to find an alternative solution. Even if he did want to pass to Eriksen, there was a much less riskier pass if he played it earlier to him. But the fact he waited so long up until the point the opponents knew exactly where he wanted to pass it and closed Eriksen down before he even received the pass is where the fault lies. He had plenty of time to ultimately choose the wrong option.

 

[Tibs]

Cool. So who gets yesses to all those questions then?

DDG

Is he going to be a Keane? No.
Huge upgrade on Maguire? Yes

He's had a bad game yesterday and come out on TV and said he fecked up. That's more courage than Maguire has ever shown

 

[JB7]

I can’t accept Dalot was the root of the problem. He didn’t make the problem easier but there was plenty of time for Maguire to find an alternative solution. Even if he did want to pass to Eriksen, there was a much less riskier pass if he played it earlier to him. But the fact he waited so long up until the point the opponents knew exactly where he wanted to pass it and closed Eriksen down before he even received the pass is where the fault lies. He had plenty of time to ultimately choose the wrong option.

Of course you can’t but I’m 99% certain you’d blame Maguire if him & Dalots positions were switched. Everything’s always Maguires fault, which is why so we’ll overanalyse a situation that didn’t ultimately lead to anything as opposed to the goalkeeper who’s pretty much chucked 5 goals into his own net in the past 2 games.

 

[KikiDaKats]

It was from a goal kick - we were set so it should absolutely not be happening. I’ve found a clip - I agree with most of the comments - Elanga is mostly to blame but I still think Lindelof should be dropping not pushing up.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Is that not the goal conceded against Brentford.

 

[JB7]

DDG

Is he going to be a Keane? No.
Huge upgrade on Maguire? Yes

He's had a bad game yesterday and come out on TV and said he fecked up. That's more courage than Maguire has ever shown

Give it a rest. De Geas a far bigger problem than Maguire.

 

[Tibs]

Give it a rest. De Geas a far bigger problem than Maguire.

Disagree, but we will see.

 

[JB7]

Disagree, but we will see.

We’ve literally already seen it. He’s cost us 5 goals in 2 games. He cost us 2 in pre season. He creates panic in whatever defence you put in front of him and has done for years.

 

[Trequarista10]

It's the opposite of what we had in 93. With this team you can't pick a captain out of any of them, in 93 you couldn't pick a player that wasn't captain material!
Schmeichel
Bruce
Keane
Ince
Giggs
Cantona
Hughes
Irwin
Pallister

Robson and McClair too. Giggs would only have been a kid at the time, but certainly our academy products in the 90s/early 00s had a lot more character than the ones we get these days.

I actually sort of like Maguire, but he's not captain material at all. He reminds me of that nice mate who is captain of your 5 a side team, cos he sorts out all the admin and brings a spare shirt every week in case someone forgets, but is also the worst player on the team and is just there for a bit of fun and doesn't like it when it gets too serious.

 

[Lyng]

Of course you can’t but I’m 99% certain you’d blame Maguire if him & Dalots positions were switched. Everything’s always Maguires fault, which is why so we’ll overanalyse a situation that didn’t ultimately lead to anything as opposed to the goalkeeper who’s pretty much chucked 5 goals into his own net in the past 2 games.

It's impressive to se how much you love to analyze anything about De Gea but when it's Maguire suddenly it's all agendas.

It's very simple. Neither of them will ever work in a high line playing from the back. Analyzing their play will show that clearly, but for some reason Maguire needs to be sheltered from any criticism and analysis.

 

[Chief123]

Of course you can’t but I’m 99% certain you’d blame Maguire if him & Dalots positions were switched. Everything’s always Maguires fault, which is why so we’ll overanalyse a situation that didn’t ultimately lead to anything as opposed to the goalkeeper who’s pretty much chucked 5 goals into his own net in the past 2 games.

This is the exact problem I have with Maguire lovers like yourself.

I literally have no favourite player at the club because this team has not a single player who I can develop an attachment to. It’s a blessing because it allows me to be critical of every player in a fair and rational manner. I don’t need to have agendas as I don’t fly the flag for any one player in particular.

We are specifically talking about a passage of play which involves Maguire at the heart of it. Even in this situation where Maguire has the largest amount of blame attached to it, you are still refusing to accept he was the problem and somehow trying to push all the blame onto Dalot as being the “root of the problem”. It’s absolutely absurd and blinded agenda against every player but Maguire. You simply can’t bring yourself to be critical of Maguire when he demonstrates pure shite in so many situations.

 

[JB7]

It's impressive to se how much you love to analyze anything about De Gea but when it's Maguire suddenly it's all agendas.

It's very simple. Neither of them will ever work in a high line playing from the back. Analyzing their play will show that clearly, but for some reason Maguire needs to be sheltered from any criticism and analysis.

De Gea plays in a position I played to a reasonable standard so I’m considerably more qualified to analyse him than I am Maguire. I’ve said Maguire was at fault in this matter several times so how you missed that when you’re saying I’m sheltering him from criticism I don’t know. The reality is the issue was caused by Dalot defying his captains instructions to move for the ball as he was the free man and he was hiding. That’s not an opinion, we have conclusive evidence of the fact. What went afterwards was very poor from both Maguire and Eriksen but the had Dalot moved across when he was told to none of it would have happened.

This is the exact problem I have with Maguire lovers like yourself.

I literally have no favourite player at the club because this team has not a single player who I can develop an attachment to. It’s a blessing because it allows me to be critical of every player in a fair and rational manner. I don’t need to have agendas as I don’t fly the flag for anyone in particular.

We are specifically talking about a passage of play which involves Maguire at the heart of it. Even in this situation where Maguire has the largest amount of blame attached to it, you are still refusing to accept he was the problem and somehow trying to push all the blame onto Dalot as being the root of the problem. It’s absolutely absurd and blinded agenda against every player but Maguire. You simply can’t bring yourself to be critical of Maguire when he demonstrates pure shite in so many situations.

Maguire lover? Pointing out that the root cause of an issue was another player makes me a Maguire lover and means that I have an agenda against every other player than Maguire? If you had the capacity to read properly you’d see that I said on more than one occasion Maguire was at fault, however if Dalot had followed his captains instruction to pull wide it’s not a situation that would have happened. That quite literally by definition makes Dalot the root cause of the issue despite whatever errors followed from Maguire & Eriksen.

 

[Atheist]

Why was he appointed club captain in the first place? What did he do to even warrant that reward? I’ll never get this in a million years.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Why was he appointed club captain in the first place? What did he do to even warrant that reward? I’ll never get this in a million years.

Clueless manager (same one who spent 80 mil pounds on him)

 

[Leftback99]

Why was he appointed club captain in the first place? What did he do to even warrant that reward? I’ll never get this in a million years.

Who did you want instead at the time? Who do you want now?

 

[Lentwood]

I'm reticent to post in here since the usual suspects will be along to call me names and explain how Maguire was actually out of position for Dennis Law's backheel in the 70s and how he "should have been tighter" to Lionel Messi when he scored that header in Rome....however...

Has Maguire done anything especially wrong yet this season...or are we just blaming him because thats what we do?

The reason I ask (and please keep responses civil) is because I thought he was one of our better players against Brighton and yesterday there were certainly more obvious poor performers/culprits for the goals.

 

[Atheist]

Who did you want instead at the time? Who do you want now?

De Gea, despite his atrocious performances has enough credit in the bank to be our captain and has achieved far more at the club.

 

[Leftback99]

De Gea, despite his atrocious performances has enough credit in the bank to be our captain and has achieved far more at the club.

And after performances like yesterday and last week he'd also be getting called our worst captain ever.

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

80m quid was paid for him. Absolutely criminal. Those responsible should be behind bars for this massive financial fraud.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Just because there were worse players than him yesterday, doesn't negate the fact that he was also poor, and is also a huge part of our problems.

He has a weird little fan club on here, who love to blame anyone and everyone, bar Maguire. For me, he's a part of the long list of absolute charlatans that need to be binned. Unfortunately, he'll be here for at least another season, so hopefully he can regain some semblance of form.

 

[Leftback99]

Just because there were worse players than him yesterday, doesn't negate the fact that he was also poor, and is also a huge part of our problems.

He has a weird little fan club on here, who love to blame anyone and everyone, bar Maguire. For me, he's a part of the long list of absolute charlatans that need to be binned. Unfortunately, he'll be here for at least another season, so hopefully he can regain some semblance of form.

He isn't a HUGE part of our problems at all. He's well down the list. We got smashed yesterday by a team with Ben Mee and Jansson at CB, last week Dunk and Webster. He's as good as them at worst.

So yeah, there are other things to blame which don't get the same attention. Look how much discussion one clip of a bad pass decision yesterday has got. Where the clips of every bad pass Bruno made to analyse?

 

[Robbie Boy]

He isn't a HUGE part of our problems at all. He's well down the list. We got smashed yesterday by a team with Ben Mee and Jansson at CB, last week Dunk and Webster. He's as good as them at worst.

So yeah, there are other things to blame which don't get the same attention. Look how much discussion one clip of a bad pass decision yesterday has got. Where the clips of every bad pass Bruno made to analyse?

For me he most definitely us. Disagree if you please, boss.

 

[Leftback99]

For me he most definitely us. Disagree if you please, boss.

Yeah fair enough. Didn't expect to get an explanation why he is.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah fair enough. Didn't expect to get an explanation why he is.

Can't be arsed tbh. I don't feel strongly enough about him like some of you lot seem to. He would certainly be in the group of charlatans that I would be fecking delighted to see the back of. You obviously rate him, so good on you.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

He shouldn't be the captain. In footballing terms I don't think he was the most problematic player yesterday but the nature of our collapse was indicative that he doesn't command the respect of at least some players in the side.

The issue for me is I don't really see who the alternative is in the team. De Gea in footballing terms is a bigger problem than Maguire and should be one of the first players we look to replace. Ronaldo doesn't even want to be here. For me, as poor as he's started the season, Bruno is the most viable candidate.

 

[Leftback99]

Can't be arsed tbh. I don't feel strongly enough about him like some of you lot seem to. He would certainly be in the group of charlatans that I would be fecking delighted to see the back of. You obviously rate him, so good on you.

I don't 'rate him' certainly not on last season form. I'd gladly see the back of the whole squad. But a competent centre back is well down the list of problems unless I hear convincingly otherwise. It just a weird hate club on here which I enjoy discussing with.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Agree to disagree then.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I am sure anyone can see that you can't understand this pattern of play.

Original position with all angle, even easy pass to Dalot stationed out width. Martinez is free too.


Position just before passing. By this time, Dalot tucked in, which 100% certainly Sancho is width provider, for anyone who study our previous games under ETH.


Bigger view with Sancho insight who played the role of width provider. Dalot is not supposed to be a passing option now. His job is to pull the player inside create enough angle to for Maguire to pass to Sancho. Maguire closed the passing option all by himself. Martinez, and Shaw option is still open. DDG always available. Why Eriksen?


How are you sure he signaling to Dalot, not Sancho? if it's for Dalot, what is the importance? The play book has Dalot to tuck in, and Sancho stay wide at that point. Not like it? then choose other option. Why it has to be Eriksen?

Exactly, people blaming Dalot for that one but Maguire is the one to blame. Takes ages to make the pass and for some stupid reason he chooses to pass it to Eriksen who has a man breathing on his neck.

 

[MackRobinson]

I said he was at fault, just as Eriksen was. But you look to the root of the issue and that is quite clearly Dalot not making himself available when he was the only free man available for a simple pass. He was even given a direct instruction by his captain to make himself available and he failed to do so. Whatever happens from that point, Dalot has put him teammates under massive pressure by hiding.

While I agree that Dalot's movement made the situation even worse, if Maguire advanced with the ball quicker, Dalot would have never taken up that position. By taking his time to advance the ball while Brentford where backing off him, it made it easier Brentford to press from the front.

Maguire and Erikson share the lion share of the blame. Dalot's lack of spatial awareness made a bad situation worse.

 

[united for life]

How long does he have left on his current contract?

not sure, but we’ll probably give him a new improved one anyway