You are without a doubt thee biggest wind up merchant on not just this forum , but any forum anywhere on the Internet .
Well played
Has Ronaldo just settled current generation's GOAT debate?
- Thread starter baanke laal
- Start date
Well played
3 CL's, my bad.Aguero, Mascherano, Di Maria & co are average?
Ronaldo won the CL 07/08, 13/14 & 15/16, but let's not let facts get in the way of sprouting non-sense...
Football is a team sport and the team's achievements should only count for so much when you're comparing players. So in terms of the Messi vs Ronaldo debate, this changes nothing. For all I care Messi could've won the Copa a couple of weeks ago and Ronaldo would've lost this final. Would that make either one of them better or worse? Of course not.
Yes, but he didn't miss in the Copa America 2015, nor the WC final 2014, he actually played very well.
Ronaldo took more shots than any player at the Euro yet he doesn't have the golden boot, or he hasn't won player of the tournament? Renato Sanches has won that award.
If Ronaldo lit up this tournament and did a Maradona '86 fantastic! but he didn't he was poor. Ronaldo is a GOAT but not the GOAT far from it.
Ronaldo does not have the skills required to be the GOAT he's missed 43 free kicks in a row! he is not the complete player and Eder won the tournament for them today.
It's a double-edged sword argument you're presenting because you're saying something which is true for both players in different international tournaments.
Huh? 2014 was 2 years ago, and anyway, Ronaldo's start to 2015/16 was quite pathetic.
And more recently, he was useless vs City, Atleti, and in all his Euro games except Wales and Hungary.
The difference I was talking about was between Ronaldo and Eder/Gotze/Iniesta.
Again, I'm not new to the Ronaldo-is-the-GOAT camp - I've always thought he's the better of the two, so this tournament win is simply a one-up on his rival to me, nothing more.
Messi is a better passer and dribber. That's where it stops I think. Ronaldo is more physical, can head the ball, better penalty taker, better leader, better goal scorer.
But I still think Messi is the better player. Just Ronaldo the more complete player.
Portuguese central/defensive midfield, defense and GK are better than Argentina. But yeah, significantly weaker
Say what? Argentina national team is average? A team with Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero, Mascheranho etc?
What would you call a Portugal side in that case?
Except for Iceland scoring that late winner to give Portugal the nicer draw, what exactly had they done that was "lucky"?
he just proved how shit and pointless National Football is, and should never be the final judge of all time greatness.
Club football is the highest form of football, with the best managers.
Club football is the highest form of football, with the best managers.
Messi is from Rosario, Argentina. He is out of his comfort zone. And using this line of reasoning are Xavi and Scholes' accomplishments worth less?
There's a difference in accomplishment and ability. This probably puts Ronaldo above Messi in accomplishment but not in ability.
Yes, barely effective in-spite of his goals. You can still score a few goals and be largely ineffective. Is that touch of nuance a bit to complicated for you to get your head around?There's no point in replying to the rest of your post when you come out with comments like "barely effective in spite of his goals".
Portugal won the Euro, during which Ronaldo was the team's topscorer, yet somehow he's been ineffective.
Have you been living under a rock over the last few weeks?
See my post above. Mostly offensive players that get shoehorn into the side and play absolutely dogshit or are injured every 2 games. Plus Higuain the biggest bottler in the last 20 years.Say what? Argentina national team is average? A team with Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero, Mascheranho etc?
What would you call a Portugal side in that case?
But was not he Portugal's top scorer and assist provider in the tournament?
Football isn't played on paper mate. Of all those players only Mascherano was good at the World Cup. However this so-called average Portugal side won against the big favourites without their superstar.Say what? Argentina national team is average? A team with Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero, Mascheranho etc?
What would you call a Portugal side in that case?
Did he though? My memory is admittedly hazy when it comes to the WC, but I don't remember him doing particularly well. He only scored one goal, right? I think the idea that he did well came from people wanting him to do well, as so seeing it from that point of view. And of course, Argentina are far from average, as many have pointed out.
He was the rightful player of the tournament the team was a Higuain miss away from the World Cup.
Same goes for Copa America 2015.
I will always think of this as the Ronaldo Final.
He lifted the trophy, didn't he?
He lifted the trophy, didn't he?
Has anyone even mentioned that? Anyone say Ronaldo won the Euro on his own? (Lots of people claim Maradona won that WC on his own).
As for freekicks, let's just pick out one stat that he's done badly recently... how about Messi's last 10 penalties? How many did he score?
On paper they aren't. In reality they are and only their attacking options are better than Portugal's but even then someone like Nani majorly outperforms Aguero on international level.
Messi wasn't near his best, I admit that, but that side wouldn't have made the final without him. On top of that the WC is ten times harder than the Euros, especially Portugal's side of the bracket this time around.
Guess who was even more useless against Atleti and actually lost?
But Maradona did not light the Final of 86 World Cup. He did help & play a massive party in Argentina reaching the Final though, just like Ronaldo did with Portugal.
Oh, and Ronaldo did not score using his hand either.
Yes, Messi vs Atletico was awful. Same with the last clasico. Neither Messi nor Ronaldo have been lighting anything up the last few months.
Yes, but talentwise that Argentina squad is on another level to that Portugal squad. FIFA rankings would certify that.
I agree with your point that football is not won on paper, that's where leadership come into picture. Ronaldo just aced it i guess
He was their topscorer and top assist provider, they won the Euro. Get over it.
Pray tell who's been effective in the Euro if you take away everyone's goals. The keepers?
No, people will now start to use this in their arguments but then it will always go a little bit more in-depth and people will realise that Messi' was always just that little bit more superior.
To even compare Maradona's contribution in '86 to Ronaldo's 2 good games now is laughable -- as insane as Messi getting awarded after the 2014 WC.But Maradona did not light the Final of 86 World Cup. He did help & play a massive party in Argentina reaching the Final though, just like Ronaldo did with Portugal.
Oh, and Ronaldo did not score using his hand either.
Not true, Ronaldo did light the Semi Final of the Euro against Wales, did not he?
Payet, Greizmann, Bale, Nani, Kroos, Ozil have all been bigger threats. (Off the top of my head.)
The point being with the way Ronaldo played in the Euros he wasn't the best player in the tournament he wasn't even the best player for Portugal.
Messi won the Golden Ball in 2014 the best player at the WC but he wasn't on the winning team. Ronaldo didn't even get close to that in the Euros this year.
It's a nonsense argument to say somehow now Ronaldo is the GOAT he's far from the complete player, 5 years ago Ronaldo was a brilliant player now he's a shadow of himself.
Portugal has won the Euros, Ronaldo was a part of it, but not in the final. They were lucky to even get out of the group stages given the new rule.
Do please elaborate on this, how exactly have they been lucky?
Don't say finishing 3rd and making the knockout stage. Everyone knew the rules before a ball was kicked in qualifying.
Messi won more Major Trophies in his Club Career with both having similar exceptional scoring stats.
Ronaldo has now won more Major Trophies in his International Career with both having similar scoring stats.
Comes down to personal preference in all honesty.
Ronaldo has now won more Major Trophies in his International Career with both having similar scoring stats.
Comes down to personal preference in all honesty.
His trophy collection is unreal. Not really a vast amount of one like Giggs but such a wide range - for club and country now. At the end of the day the trophy he has won the joint most is the Premier League and that's only 3.
Messi is better at football though it just has to be said.
Messi is better at football though it just has to be said.
As much as I love Ronaldo, Messi is clearly the better player. We won't see a player like Messi for a while.
And Messi had some great games in the Copa. But if you watched them over the last few months you would laugh at the notion that these are the best players in the world and in contention with Pele/Maradona.
Edited.
Ronaldo is a great player, but comparing him to Messi is simply a joke that has gotten stale now. Messi is the GOAT and the only other player who is comparable to him is Maradona. Cristiano is in the second tier of great players where you have the likes of Pele, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Iniesta, Maldini and so on.
I don't think I brought Maradona's 86 world cup in the argument, someone else did.
But, Maradona did not do anything in the Final and depended on his teammates to win the trophy for him. That's a FACHT
He took them to final by playing brilliantly in the semi-final, just like Ronaldo took Portugal to the final
He moved from Argentina to Barcelona when he was 13 years old. Barcelona is very much his comfort zone and always has been. I understand your sentiment - players like Messi or Xavi or Scholes have no reason to move, because they're already at the top club. However, I think it's still a plus mark for Ronaldo that he has been the best player in two very different leagues, arguably the top leagues in the world. It's just a question mark against Messi, we never got to see how he would do outside of Barcelona. We've seen Ronaldo at different clubs and he's been the best player at each club.