Hillsborough: Duckenfield to be charged with manslaughter

Oyibo

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It could have been us that day. We played Forest at home in the round before, and had a goal unfairly ruled out at the Stretford End.

We then would have played Liverpool in the semi, and who knows, could have been given the Leppings Lane End...

That's how close it was.
 

Cassady

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Paul Middup. ( The gob piece of SYP )

Just listen to him. Not sure what gets to me most. What he says or just him. Look at him. Just look at him. The hair , the gob , that feckin accent. The scrawny little cnut. I would dearly to see a few pairs of Addidas samba booting his scrawny head all over the place. Nowt like a good rant.


 

Cassady

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It could have been us that day. We played Forest at home in the round before, and had a goal unfairly ruled out at the Stretford End.

We then would have played Liverpool in the semi, and who knows, could have been given the Leppings Lane End...

That's how close it was.
With all due respect it most probably would have been played at Goodison or Maine Road. If United would have got us in quarters and won then yes it would have been United in the Leppings Lane that day . But , yes I get your point.
 

mitchmouse

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Apologies for my lack of understanding on the Hillsborough tragedy, it was before I was born.

However, my question is should the club not be held responsible? The gates just kept letting people in even the capacity was full. What has that got to do with the Chief of Police?
he ordered the gates to be opened
 

mitchmouse

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About time, the bloke should never see the light of day again. As much as we love to dish it out to the scousers, I have nothing but total admiration for the way they fought for the truth and never gave up.
This
 

mitchmouse

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Also please take note:
That last line is
Said before about Hillsborough that anyone who went to football regularly in the Seventies and Eighties will think 'there but for the grace of God......'.

It's truly shameful that it has taken nearly thirty years to get to this point. Those that have had to fight a largely indifferent establishment to get here for their lost loved ones deserve huge respect.
indeed. United fans stood at the Lepping Lane end often enough (I was there for the semi against Derby and was crushed against that wall countless times)
 

Cassady

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That last line is

indeed. United fans stood at the Lepping Lane end often enough (I was there for the semi against Derby and was crushed against that wall countless times)
Indeed.

The 88 semi against Forest was iffy. I could hear bones being broken then . People fainting etc..

Peter Robinson ( LFC Chairman I think ) wrote a letter to the FA when the 89 venue was announced asking for the Kop end at Sheffield as we had more supporters. He was ignored.

Graham Kelly has a lot to answer to aswell.
 

marukomu

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About time, the bloke should never see the light of day again. As much as we love to dish it out to the scousers, I have nothing but total admiration for the way they fought for the truth and never gave up.
Couldn't have put it better myself. I hope the news brings a little peace to some of the families involved.
 

redmeister

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I've got be honest, when I read the details and watched the documentaries about Hillsborough, I thought to myself that I could so easily have made the mistakes the police and Duckenfield made that day. I think the cover up was disgusting, but in terms of the decisions that led to the over crowding, even with training, I really believe I could just as easily have made those decisions.
 

Cassady

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I've got be honest, when I read the details and watched the documentaries about Hillsborough, I thought to myself that I could so easily have made the mistakes the police and Duckenfield made that day. I think the cover up was disgusting, but in terms of the decisions that led to the over crowding, even with training, I really believe I could just as easily have made those decisions.
His bottle went and to being honest I dont think he had any training whatsover in crowd management.

Also he had no experience in dealing with an event of such magnitude. He didnt even know what teams were playing for fecksake. It's like someone having experience in putting on a karaoke in the local then being asked to organise Glastonbury. He froze , plain and simple. He was advised to close the tunnel before the gates were opened but said " it ( the crowd ) will find its own level ". He was overlooking the Leppings Lane and could see what was happening. Anybody with the slightest bit of insight in crowd management would connect opening the gates would cause a crush in the already packed ( over capacity ) pens.

Ok. Humans make mistakes but what hurts is the lies , the cover up and pain caused by this.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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It's nice to hear things like this.

The death toll is more than 96 by the way. Many have taken their lives since 1989.

My only brother was a campaigner for the HJC. He also put on a concert two years ago to raise money for the HJC.

Sadly he passed away last month which broke my heart. I really wish he was around for this news today. He fought so hard for Justice and Truth.
Sorry for your loss mate, but at least you can be so so proud of him, The effort, determination and resilience the people of Liverpool showed over Hillsborough is so inspirational, massive respect to you all.
 

redmeister

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His bottle went and to being honest I dont think he had any training whatsover in crowd management.

Also he had no experience in dealing with an event of such magnitude. He didnt even know what teams were playing for fecksake. It's like someone having experience in putting on a karaoke in the local then being asked to organise Glastonbury. He froze , plain and simple. He was advised to close the tunnel before the gates were opened but said " it ( the crowd ) will find its own level ". He was overlooking the Leppings Lane and could see what was happening. Anybody with the slightest bit of insight in crowd management would connect opening the gates would cause a crush in the already packed ( over capacity ) pens.

Ok. Humans make mistakes but what hurts is the lies , the cover up and pain caused by this.
I agree with that, its just when watching the documentaries I remember thinking those are the kind of feck ups I'd make.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Couldn't have put it better myself. I hope the news brings a little peace to some of the families involved.
Hopefully, I cant imagine having my loved ones taken away, then lied about, and essentially swept under the carpet. Its heartbreaking, even though it hasnt impacted me personally I always get emotional when I think of that day and its aftermath,
 

Cassady

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Sorry for your loss mate, but at least you can be so so proud of him, The effort, determination and resilience the people of Liverpool showed over Hillsborough is so inspirational, massive respect to you all.
Thanks .

Always nice to read comments like this. It breaks down football and city rivalries which how it should be.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Thanks .

Always nice to read comments like this. It breaks down football and city rivalries which how it should be.
It really should, as much as we all love our teams and our differences, we all have so much more in common.
 

Cassady

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↑↑↑

I think one of our kids designs.

I fecking love this image as it's powerful as feck.

We are getting t - shirts done and donating the money to the HJC and the Liverpool and Everton foodbanks which were two other charities he raised money for.
 

Cassady

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It really should, as much as we all love our teams and our differences, we all have so much more in common.
So true.

Without going into one and going off topic this applies to countries and religions too. If only people saw it.

Cant think who said this but its so true.

We have more in common to unite us than to divide us.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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So true.

Without going into one and going off topic this applies to countries and religions too. If only people saw it.

Cant think who said this but its so true.

We have more in common to unite us than to divide us.
Couldnt have put it better, I think Ill have a very rare beer tonight, and Ill be raising a glass to you, you brother and everyone else involved my friend.
 

RoadTrip

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Completely transcends football.

Shouldn't have taken this long but glad it has finally happened and, all of that is due to those who sacrificed so much to not give up and continue fighting.
 

DomesticTadpole

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His bottle went and to being honest I dont think he had any training whatsover in crowd management.

Also he had no experience in dealing with an event of such magnitude. He didnt even know what teams were playing for fecksake. It's like someone having experience in putting on a karaoke in the local then being asked to organise Glastonbury. He froze , plain and simple. He was advised to close the tunnel before the gates were opened but said " it ( the crowd ) will find its own level ". He was overlooking the Leppings Lane and could see what was happening. Anybody with the slightest bit of insight in crowd management would connect opening the gates would cause a crush in the already packed ( over capacity ) pens.

Ok. Humans make mistakes but what hurts is the lies , the cover up and pain caused by this.
Didn't they get rid of the previous guy who did have experience in a fit of pique by his superiors.
 

mark_a

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Just the 28 years then.

An unwelcome reminder of the dark days that allowed this kind of disaster to happen, the collusion between Police and gutter Press and the ability of successive governments to not realise that something needed to be done.

Sadly, the Police and gutter press continue to collude, the press un-punished post-Leveson and arguable as bad and we've only got to look at the Government's approach to the Grenfell disaster to see they'll choose the approach (Enquiry not inquest) that will drag it out the longest and have the least impact and benefit for the public.

It's worth reflecting on the bravery and tenacity of those who fought and maintained for so long when they absolutely shouldn't have had to.
 

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Nice to see justice prevail. In my eyes it should never have been allowed to drag on for more than a year in the first place. The evidence was there all along. Had this been investigated properly from the beginning a lot of people could have lived a life without the grief, sorrow and agony that came with the cover stories and built up inside with every day those lies stood as truth. 5 or 10 more years for Duckenfield because of clearer evidence? That won't ever compensate for it. I'd rather the families and friends of the departed as well as those that were there that day didn't have to go through that ordeal at all.
Absolutely. Lives could have been saved. However we all know that back then a cover-up of lies and collusion would have swept everything under the rug and given all concerned an exit without any admission of guilt and certainly no punishment. Even the FA have admitted culpability by stating they knew that Hillsborough had not been issued with a safety certificate yet still permitted the match to go ahead there. Why are they not in the dock too ? Therefore at least now justice will be done, it most certainly wouldn't have been back then and that would have been even worse for most of those concerned.
 

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You know what, my heart truly goes out to those 96 that bought tickets and got into the ground within the designated time that the ticket stated.

People are afraid to say it, the police were at fault for making the decision to open the gates but you must question all those fans that travelled without a ticket and tried to jib their way into the game.

The crush was inevitable, whether it was outside the ground or in the ground. Take away the fans without tickets trying to jib their way in and you avoid the whole disaster.

Booze would've also been a factor but we dont need to bring that into it.

The Police made the wrong decision in opening the gates, however people never look at the whole story though.
 

montpelier

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You know what, my heart truly goes out to those 96 that bought tickets and got into the ground within the designated time that the ticket stated.

People are afraid to say it, the police were at fault for making the decision to open the gates but you must question all those fans that travelled without a ticket and tried to jib their way into the game.

The crush was inevitable, whether it was outside the ground or in the ground. Take away the fans without tickets trying to jib their way in and you avoid the whole disaster.

Booze would've also been a factor but we dont need to bring that into it.

The Police made the wrong decision in opening the gates, however people never look at the whole story though.
I couldn't understand for many years, not helped by the fact that I hate the bastards & will continue to do so.

But the crush inside the ground was already happening & would have continued to do so. No one was being directed to the outside areas & couldn't get to anywhere safe from the middle terribly easily because they were fenced in on all sides.

So even if you're right, you're still wrong.
 

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You know what, my heart truly goes out to those 96 that bought tickets and got into the ground within the designated time that the ticket stated.

People are afraid to say it, the police were at fault for making the decision to open the gates but you must question all those fans that travelled without a ticket and tried to jib their way into the game.

The crush was inevitable, whether it was outside the ground or in the ground. Take away the fans without tickets trying to jib their way in and you avoid the whole disaster.

Booze would've also been a factor but we dont need to bring that into it.

The Police made the wrong decision in opening the gates, however people never look at the whole story though.
I re watched the 2 hour documentry this afternoon and they addressed the ticketless fans. In the Independent Hillsborough review experts reviewed all evidence and estimated that the correct allocation that was stated for that end was not surpassed. This would indicate that there was not a massive amount of ticketless fans at all. Booze has been ruled out as a factor and the inquest gave no blame to the fans at all.
I am suprised that these things are still being said after all the efforts the families went to getting the truth. Don't get me wrong, I can see how it happens, it was reported as the truth for so long.
 

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I'm slightly dyslexic so my immediate reaction was why are they charging the match commentator? Are they going after everyone?
 

sullydnl

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You know what, my heart truly goes out to those 96 that bought tickets and got into the ground within the designated time that the ticket stated.

People are afraid to say it, the police were at fault for making the decision to open the gates but you must question all those fans that travelled without a ticket and tried to jib their way into the game.

The crush was inevitable, whether it was outside the ground or in the ground. Take away the fans without tickets trying to jib their way in and you avoid the whole disaster.

Booze would've also been a factor but we dont need to bring that into it.

The Police made the wrong decision in opening the gates, however people never look at the whole story though.
Absolute bollocks.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Disgusting that an inquest cleared the fans of any blame, but there are still people on here trying to find reason to blame them because they do not like Liverpool F.C. Have a look at yourselves.
 

sparky

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Disgusting that an inquest cleared the fans of any blame, but there are still people on here trying to find reason to blame them because they do not like Liverpool F.C. Have a look at yourselves.
I agree, but can only see one person who made that comment and I have chosen to give them a pass as I do not know them. But they obviously have no knowledge of recent events surrounding it.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I agree, but can only see one person who made that comment and I have chosen to give them a pass as I do not know them. But they obviously have no knowledge of recent events surrounding it.
He seemed to know all the false stuff that The Sun and SYP were spouting, you would think if he is so sure of it that he would look at why the inquest said none of it was true. Hopefully he has now taken the time.
 

sparky

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He seemed to know all the false stuff that The Sun and SYP were spouting, you would think if he is so sure of it that he would look at why the inquest said none of it was true. Hopefully he has now taken the time.
True, I was suprised myself. Didnt want to turn it angry though as its not the time or place. Maybe those who still believe that shite should watch the documentry with Professor Scranton in. It is emotional, took me back to that day and I was not there. I recall as a 16 year old turning on the telly to see the latest footie and seeing all these people dying on the pitch. Horrible. Horrible it has taken this long and I have total respect to the families and friends.
 

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You know what, my heart truly goes out to those 96 that bought tickets and got into the ground within the designated time that the ticket stated.

People are afraid to say it, the police were at fault for making the decision to open the gates but you must question all those fans that travelled without a ticket and tried to jib their way into the game.

The crush was inevitable, whether it was outside the ground or in the ground. Take away the fans without tickets trying to jib their way in and you avoid the whole disaster.

Booze would've also been a factor but we dont need to bring that into it.

The Police made the wrong decision in opening the gates, however people never look at the whole story though.
You need to read more about it. The whole tragedy has been picked apart and experts have concluded that it wasn't caused by the behaviour of the fans.

Those who've spent years looking at all the evidence have been very clear about why so many people died.
 

DomesticTadpole

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True, I was suprised myself. Didnt want to turn it angry though as its not the time or place. Maybe those who still believe that shite should watch the documentry with Professor Scranton in. It is emotional, took me back to that day and I was not there. I recall as a 16 year old turning on the telly to see the latest footie and seeing all these people dying on the pitch. Horrible. Horrible it has taken this long and I have total respect to the families and friends.
It was the year I was born, so I have watched all the documentaries since and it is heartbreaking what happened. The families deserve to see justice done and like you I have so much respect for them and the fact they wouldn't give in.
 

Sandikan

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I've got be honest, when I read the details and watched the documentaries about Hillsborough, I thought to myself that I could so easily have made the mistakes the police and Duckenfield made that day. I think the cover up was disgusting, but in terms of the decisions that led to the over crowding, even with training, I really believe I could just as easily have made those decisions.
You wouldn't have just opened a gate and let a massive unspecified amount of people, that you hadn't even checked all had tickets, go in without the security of single file through turnstiles though surely?