I dont think any sportsperson in the world had as much pressure on him to perform as much as Tendulkar did throughout his career especially the years between 96 and maybe 04/05. Kohli always had a good squad of players around him ever since he joined the team. Cant say the same about Sachin. Boy he played in some absolutely terrible teams.
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That Akram spell was magic. That Akram to Lamb ball was unplayable and then lewis(?). I think the occasion of a WC final is impossible to better. Amir was good and will be talked about as well but not close to Akram's IMO.
the team Kohli has vs the team Sachin had till, say Ganguly, Dravid and Laxman established themselves by 1998 or so was bang average. Few decent batsmen like Azhar and Jadeja aside, most others were decent at best. The likes of Manjrekar and all. Our 'fast' bowler was Srinath who barely touched 80 mph.
Not to mention bowlers were way better then. You barely have a McGrath level bowler today and then you had walsh, ambrose Akram, Waqar, warne, Murali, Donald etc too. Today there are a few great bowlers but very few of this level.
I always find this narrative a little odd. I remember the 2003 world cup final (I was 11 back then) and I'd hear pundits stating that Tendulkar was surrounded by shite and carried India. Its not that true. Whilst he was immense, in every possible way, and would turn up 9 times out of 10, he wasn't surrounded by constant crap. From 99 on wards, he had the likes of Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag. That was the golden generation of India.
@prath92 Kumble and Bhajji? Zaheer later on. We were just shit away from home till about '04.
Never heard that during the WC. I doubt anyone worth your time would say something like that since '99-2000.
Laxman wasnt a great ODI player. He is like Ashwin. A wonderful test player but seriously limited in the ODI format. Sehwag took a while to get going. But I think the point Im trying to make it even if Kohli doesnt fire we have a good enough batting lineup where the others can pick up the slack. It wasnt like that back then. If Sachin didnt fire as a opener, India was in serious trouble.
2003 was pretty good, Dada and the young resurgence happened around 2000 CT, then that Natwest chase in 2002 and by 2003 we were pretty much established as a top team with some real quality in Sachin, Dada, Srinath from the old gen with great young talent in Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, Zaheer, etc. We only lost to that great Aus team in that cup, and pretty much took care of everyone else. Some great contributions all round.
Like @Moby says, the likes of Yuvi, Kaif were coming through. Agarkar was a brilliant ODI bowler around that time. Bhajji was good as well. Pathan, Zaheer and Nehra were also coming through. I do remember us being shit in ODIs around 2004-2006. Losing ODI series' against WI and Pakistan. Being poor in the CT, as well.
That was coz of Greg Chappell and his brilliance. Innovative ideas like take your best bowler at the time who is also a decent batsman and make him play up the order. Alienate India's best captain till then and make Rahul Dravid the captain etc
Akram done that in middle overs with less shine etc,no comparison there Akram's was easily the best.
Yup, enhances my point. That was our worst period in ODIs in recent memory. You also forget moving Tendulkar down the order. Chappell, that cnut!
I disagree. It was a great spell and you're forgetting he found Kohli's edge twice. He got some movement on a very dead pitch. Maybe not as good as Akram's but one of the best bowling spells I've seen in a final.
Kohli will need to do something really special to be greater than Sachin in my eyes. The entire dynamic of the team for a majority of his career was just different. It was him vs the opposition. Also, it's absolutely wrong to say a majority of his centuries were stat padding or on dead rubbers. There was an detailed analysis of our win ratios in both cases and the probability of the huge increase being down to chance was around 2% iirc.
I may have to watch it again. One was a leading edge, though. Normally, more the fault of the batsmen.
Tendulkar in ODIs:
won batting first 1990-2012 107 107 9 5667 200* 57.82 6260 90.52 19 28 2 613 57
won fielding first 1990-2012 127 124 25 5490 134 55.45 6094 90.08 14 31 6 654 58
lost batting first 1990-2012 99 99 2 3478 146 35.85 4612 75.41 11 15 3 333 34
lost fielding first 1989-2012 101 101 0 3107 175 30.76 3633 85.52 3 20 8 348 32
Tendulkar won 234 and lost 200.
Kohli in ODIs:
won batting first 2008-2017 42 41 4 1874 138 50.64 2089 89.70 8 7 3 152 18
won fielding first 2008-2017 65 62 22 3808 183 95.20 3897 97.71 15 17 3 398 45
lost batting first 2008-2017 31 31 0 1002 117 32.32 1187 84.41 2 8 4 85 7
lost fielding first 2008-2017 36 36 1 1226 123 35.02 1464 83.74 2 9 1 104 15
Kohli has won 107 and lost 67.
What's that supposed to show?
Best innings Sachin has played (well, definitely one that I've seen). Was incredible that day. I remember Tendulkar dominating in every partnership till Raina came in. fecking Jaddu.
Just a quick comparison of their influences in ODIs.
I think the three balls to Sharma were as high class as you can get. Two pushed across him one ducking back in late from the same spot. Very, very good bowling.
Kohli's was a mistake, but he was probing away in the right areas to force the mistake. I think Kohli should have done better, but it's high skill bowling.
He's a talent. I dislike Pakistan (for obvious reasons) but the match fixing shit that he did in 2010 pisses me off so much. So much fecking potential wasted. Had he continued from then, I reckon he'd the best bowler in the world atm.
He was a kid back then. You don't know the kind of backgrounds and situations they come from. Pissed me off too but he was a kid and he served his sentence.
Yeah, fair point. It really was a shame.
Kohli's mentally stronger than Sachin in the context of an innings. Sachin was superior in terms of technique. Kohli has a long way to go - in the form of performances and consistency - to match Sachin in that context. If the next 5 years are a repeat of Kohli's last 5, Kohli will look like a 'stat padder' too. Half a career in, he's still just below the 50 average mark in test cricket.
I'm just glad both play/played for India.
I'm just glad both play/played for India.
No way to know but it may help him long term. He looks physically stronger. He had known stress fracture issues as an 18 year old.
Hopefully he sticks around for the better part of the next decade. Wonderful to watch.
The stat padding is BS. You don't need stats to see that. He played wonderfully against some of the best bowlers of the game. The first part I don't think is 100% true. It wasn't always him vs the opposition. India had a strong team of batsmen that gave them a great start more often than not. Doesn't take away from the greatness of Sachin but kind of like Messi, he did have his Iniestas and Xavis surrounding him.
As far as Sachin vs Kohli it's too early to tell. Sachin is still the best batsman I've seen in my life.
Kohli is box office. I've never been a fan of Tendulkar.
He was quite good back then as well. Such a shame the influence it seems others had on him for him to do this. Wasnt advised well at a young age, so im kinda glad he came back in.
Normally id say once a cheat, always a cheat, but I think the circumstances should dicate it and hes rightfully bowling now.
Also imo, Kohli still has more to do better Tendulkar. Tendulkar at times had the hopes of the nation just on his back. Whereas Kohli imo had better players surrounding him, in terms of all round players / fielding ( thanks Kirsten).
Kohli though is fantastic and could have a few more centuries if he was a bit more selfish.
Also just saw highlights again and that Pandya run out still pisses me off. Wont change the result, but to end a knock like that in those circumstances was annoying.
I dont understand why Jadeja didnt sacrifice his wicket. Who knows what Pandya could have done.
As for Amir, I remember watching a documentary where they mentioned that a lot of these youngsters are threatened into fixing so I do feel for them.
Why?
Our sections reaction was being pissed off. Then we saw Pandya reaction all the way back and we were like 'oh yeah, he has every right'
And then Jadeja only gets 2 more runs which compounded it
Exactly. Pressure of senior players, agents possibly too. Outside influences as well.
If kohli continues like this until the end of his career he will be better than SRT. I don't buy Tendulkar played in weak teams, Ganguly, Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Dhoni were all world class. Zaheer, Bhaji, Kumble, Srinath were all very good bowlers too.
Kohli just feels more dangerous, if your chasing and have Kohli in the team it's like cheat mode he's that good.
Kohli just feels more dangerous, if your chasing and have Kohli in the team it's like cheat mode he's that good.
You gotta remember that SRT was around since 89. All those names you mentioned only came good in the early and late 2000s. People forget peak Tendulkar from the 90s, when he really was a 1 man team.
Only those who followed India at that time know how it was.
Tendulkar was hardly a radio show ...
I remember watching an ODI, India vs England in Wanakade Mumbai in 2002: Ganguly was bowling, took 2 quick wickets and was celebrating .... the entire crowd starting chanting for him to bring on Sachin to bowl! He laughed, took himself off, and allowed Sachin to bowl. The whole crowd went nuts. Imagine what they did when he came out to bat!
His name will be chanted forever. I highly doubt that will happen will Kohli. Tendulkar is god like in India.
That's the difference isn't it.. Tendulkar got the adulation of even the 30-40 yr olds as well as the oldies.. Dont think Kohli has as much following.. The younger generation obviously treat him like Sachin,but he doesn't have that same adulation in the other age groups.. '
My friend sent a clip during an IPL match he attended.. Sachin just casually was on the field for some interview and the whole crowd went up in his chant in an instant!
Kohli will have to work harder if he is to let Sachin keep his ODI records. He scores a 100 every 7 games or so and considering he's just 28, he has around 5 years left where he can continue scoring at this rate. Although, for people of my generation, we'd always remember Sachin as the greater cricketer and that would be primarily due to him having played against some of the finest bowlers and where home pitches weren't doctored to this extent to help us. Also, Kohli plays in an era where scoring 300-350 is more of a norm than an exception, so we tend to undervalue runs comparitively. Having said that, Kohli is a beast- his record in chases is second to none and I think, if he plays a few more memorable innings like SRT did (vs Pak '03 WC, Aus in Sharjah X2 and the 175 , 200 vs SA), he'd be remembered almost on par with Sachin
No slight on Kohli, he's a brilliant batsmen and will probably over take a lot of Sachins records. However, Sachin was a god. Going back to the 2003 WC, I remember Farook Engineer saying Tendulkar needed to score 200 and, although my understanding of cricket wasn't great then, I remember being shocked to hear people think of him so highly. Around the ages of 8-11, my parents used to watch a lot of cricket and I would always hear that as long as Sachin was there, India were always in the game. Like they say, Cricket is our religion and Sachin is our god.
Just nit picking on those innings', but you can add the 1992 tour of England, that 84 against NZ in an ODI very early in his career and, in my opinion, his best test innings was the 146 odd against SA at Cape Town in '11 where Steyn bowled the best spell I have ever seen in my life time.
Yea, there's no comparison in the adulation quotient. I've been at a music concert where Sachin's name was chanted and he wasn't even there.
I have watched Sachin play a few times live. The crowd reaction to Sachin walking out is not comparable to anything else I have and will experience in my life.
I have watched Sachin play a few times live. The crowd reaction to Sachin walking out is not comparable to anything else I have and will experience in my life.
Sachin is easily best batsmen and I don't get this comparison with Kohli,who still need to go long way. Sachin was lone warrior in our worst days of cricket.
Starting from Sharjah of 91 or B&H world series or the WC of 92,those days we where really poor chasers and that slowly started to change with sachin's batting.To me some of the best test innings by Sachin starts with Century against Australia at Perth 1992,century against SA in Capetown 96-97 and 139 against Pakistan in 1999 Chennai test.
Starting from Sharjah of 91 or B&H world series or the WC of 92,those days we where really poor chasers and that slowly started to change with sachin's batting.To me some of the best test innings by Sachin starts with Century against Australia at Perth 1992,century against SA in Capetown 96-97 and 139 against Pakistan in 1999 Chennai test.