In hindsight, was Mourinho a success?

[Robbo's Shoulder]

Top 4

And I'm serious.

I dont think it's reasonable to expect poch or even pep to come here and win the league against city.

What, ever?
I really don't get that kind of Arsenalish attitude, yes City are a quality above at the moment but there is no reason at all that with the right appointment United can't bridge the gap.
We're not skint and can still compete for the best players available, it may take a season or 2 but i expect United to be challenging for major honours in a reasonably short period of time.

 

[witchtrials]

In hindsight, no.

 

[Moonwalker]

The Faustian pact was (should have been) - you bring this highly capricious black hole of misery, squabble and pettiness, for a quick return to competitiveness and a promise of a title tilt, at some point during a three year period. We sort of got that (or the closest you can get to that given the City 'circumstance'). The hardest trick to pull was to know when to jettison him, and from a position of strength, hire a long term solution that you've now had ample time to vet.

That second part seems botched, but if it weren't, you could reasonably call his time a success.

 

[Catt]

Sadly, no.

 

[Scriblerus]

No. Not a success at all. The team, and individual players, have not progressed under his leadership. The 'style' of football has led us all to stop looking forward to matches - never was a defeat to Liverpool so widely anticipated, or met with such limp acceptance. Young players have not been developed. Money has been splurged on players that haven't played. We have a massively expensive striker and an even more expensive midfielder who may yet be able to come good but at the moment aren't fit for purpose - and another equally misfiring forward who came on a free but is on eye-watering wages.
I think Dalot, Lindelof and possibly Bailly will be the only positive things to eventually come out of all this, but all need to improve.

 

[kundalini]

It was a spectacular failure. It is ridiculous to give him the benefit of the doubt for 6th in his first season yet not recognise that Liverpool's CL final will have impacted their PL points total; if our 6th was unlucky, our 2nd place finish was fortunate for the same reasons, given we lost to Sevilla in the first knock out round of CL.

He has left a squad with far too many older players on ridiculous wages. The Sanchez transfer alone was a huge error. Anyone think the next manager will be excited to work with Fellaini and Matic ?

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I think the Europa League win glossed over many of the deficiencies that existed that season. We kind of stuttered our way there despite a fortuitous run of draws - our route to the final was a 2-1 aggregate win over FC Rostov, being taken to extra time over two legs by Anderlecht and another 2-1 aggregate win over Celta Vigo (where Guidetti really should've knocked us out). It was all pretty unspectacular given the level of opposition we were up against and the Sevilla tie a year later basically confirmed my suspicions that we would've been knocked out if we went up against a half decent outfit in the Europa League knockouts.

I don't expect many to share this view but it really did feel like the Europa League win saved his job that season. 6th place and the League Cup in isolation wouldn't have looked very impressive at all with teams like Bournemouth and Everton outscoring us in the league.

I fully agree, no Europa League meant no CL which could well have meant the door there and then for Jose. I think what your posts and our slightly different appraisals highlight is the difference in perspective between looking at the bottom line of each season (two trophies, second place vs 100 pts City, admitted shitshow) and the manner in which those achievement were met/general performance levels etc.

For example the scousers have every right to be excited as they're top of the league playing good stuff but if you look at the bottom line Jose has been more successful than Klopp over the past couple of years and he's just been given the sack. Spurs and Liverpool fans are in dreamland without a pot in the cupboard, which has always seemed odd to me as a fan spoilt by Fergie's United.

 

[Sky1981]

What, ever?
I really don't get that kind of Arsenalish attitude, yes City are a quality above at the moment but there is no reason at all that with the right appointment United can't bridge the gap.
We're not skint and can still compete for the best players available, it may take a season or 2 but i expect United to be challenging for major honours in a reasonably short period of time.

Not ever. But considering the season we had this year you think it's reasonable to ask the next manager to win the league next season?

 

[chris123]

He left us in an arguably worse place than we were in when he took over, so no. He created a toxic environment, turned fans against star players, and didn't produce results to make up for it. It ended up a total disaster.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Had two expectations for Mourinho:
1. Get rid of the deadwood in the squad - Still here.
2. Get back into top 4 - Yes and no.

Our squad is worse than it was compared to the other teams back in 2016. We have more worse contracts at the club than before. Our most talented players are no better than they were 3 years ago.

In hindsight he was not a success unless we appoint a DoF appointed due to all the shit board/Woodward gets because JM.

 

[Minimalist]

1. LVG
2. Moyes
3. Mourinho

He gets a bronze medal in the 'best permanent manager since Fergie' competition. Bronze isn't that bad.

This.

 

[Damien]

I think the Europa League win glossed over many of the deficiencies that existed that season. We kind of stuttered our way there despite a fortuitous run of draws - our route to the final was a 2-1 aggregate win over FC Rostov, being taken to extra time over two legs by Anderlecht and another 2-1 aggregate win over Celta Vigo (where Guidetti really should've knocked us out). It was all pretty unspectacular given the level of opposition we were up against and the Sevilla tie a year later basically confirmed my suspicions that we would've been knocked out if we went up against a half decent outfit in the Europa League knockouts.

Agreed. That run was horrific.


Celta dominated us, we ended up with something like 33% possession and towards the end tried unsuccessfully to waste time by having the ball near the corner flag... losing possession again shortly afterwards.

 

[Robbo's Shoulder]

Not ever. But considering the season we had this year you think it's reasonable to ask the next manager to win the league next season?

No but i never said win the League next year, i did say a club of United's stature should be challenging for major honours. It could be next season or the season after and yes it's going to be tough bridging the current gap but as long as the board make the right appointment, there's no reason why we can't start challenging again.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Winning the Europa League was great and the final against Ajax was the first European final where we won with relative ease. Every other time I've seen Utd in a European final it's been torture so Mourinho deserves credit for getting his tactics spot on that night.

However, the whole campaign that season was rotten. We had the easiest possible draw every round and proceeded to play like shit and scrape through. The performance at home to Celta Vigo was every bit as bad as the performance the following year at home to Sevilla, it's just we got away with it against Vigo.

If Guidetti scores in the last minute, we go out pathetically and after sacking Van Gaal for finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup Mourinho would have been in big trouble finishing 6th and winning the league cup.

 

[Infordin]

Champions League Knockout stages alone means it's in a better place.

Moyes got further

I don’t see how Manchester United are a better team now than they were in May 2016. The gap to the top clubs in Europe has remained the same IMO.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I think it's an interesting question. The answer isn't necessarily clear cut.

On one hand a fairly good return, on the other a shit show not as extreme as the drop off at Chelsea but not with the extreme upside of winning a league title.

But does the latter ruin the former.

Imagine comparing it to a Wenger like 3 seasons in 3rd/4th but with no trophies.

Jose really has proven he should only ever get a 2 year contract.

He did inherit a fairly poor squad from LVG and won us some trophies and finished second in the league in the 2 years. Imagine if he left at the end of last season, he really would have left the new manager something to build on.

The case against him would be he was brought in to get us back to the top, so in that sense he's failed, but based on his first 2 years I think he was the correct choice. A smaller name manager would have struggled with the pressure after LVG and I would bet we would have been through a couple more managers over Mourinhos time.

 

[AltiUn]

I thought he was alright for the first two seasons, up until the Sevilla game, he just had two many issues with certain players. His treatment of Martial throughout his tenure is something I worry we'll live to regret in the near future. Even after Sevilla we still could've won a trophy but obviously did a very poor job of that. The problem for me is that this season was so bad that it's sort of undone any decent work he actually did. Overall I'm going to say he wasn't a success, I still think the team's a lot stronger than when he took over but apart from that I wouldn't leave many positive reviews about him.

 

[Raees]

No he wasn’t. There is still a major rebuilding job of epic proportions needed post his tenure, we have fallen even further behind our rivals in terms of big trophies and the deadwood has been added to rather than reduced. There is also zero foundations been left behind in terms of a effective and positive style of play and we are still on the verge of losing the best players we do have. All in all it’s been an unmitigated disaster bar the ugly Europa League win.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Champions League Knockout stages alone means it's in a better place.

He joined a club out of the Champions League that season and he's left the club almost guaranteed to be out of the Champions League next season.

If he'd still been manager we'd have been hammered home and away against PSG.

His transfers were appalling, he's left us with no obvious playing style unless no style at all counts as a style.

 

[dangler]

I wouldn't call it a success but it was not a failure either.
I think he took an average side, managed to win something while playing boring and is now leaving a slightly better side behind.

I'm starting to believe that the club is interfering with transfers and we are not getting our first choice signings/manager's signings (Sanchez's salary drama included. Was it leaked, is it even as big as media says it is. We will never know but is possible. I doubt the manager said get 30 year old player on wages so insane we can't get rid of (Rooney anyone?). Also doubt any sane manager banks his season on improving the midfield with Fred.)

Our scouting, signing and general planning have been a joke for pretty long time now, Jose extension being the latest example.

That being said, I doubt there is a manager that would enjoy and thrive under such club policy (Yes there are Real Madrid but their policy is buy the best and the most popular players and get new flavour of the year manager every year).
I think what every other person thinks - We need a reset, we need a plan moving forward, we need to make choices based on that plan and we need to adjust accordingly and swiftly.

Sadly I think the Glazers' plan is to make money regardless of the results on the field and I believe they will milk the brand for as long as it's viable. This is what any business person would do really.

 

[Buster15]

Up until the end of last season I would say a moderate success.

People denigrate finishing second but as we can now appreciate it was a pretty good achievement. I had expected us to continue the improvement but as we have seen that did not happen.
No doubt a whole host of reasons which have been already discussed.

His win ratio, even with this season is above LVG so reasonable to say he was the most successful of the three failed appointments.

 

[Ranchero]

Mourinho has never been successful in a third season. This is the 4th time he has left the club. At Porto he was at the 2.5 year mark and the last of those was very successful, so that slightly bucks the trend. Anyway, the point is he is not a successful longer term manager so the third season is on our board for extending his contract

In his first year he steadied the ship, got us back in CL with a Europa win and also won the League cup. This said league form was not great with us ending 6th, but you could put that down to investing in the Europa. Given this all happened in a first season after coming 5th under LVG and with new players to bed in, this feels as much as you might have expected from any manager.

The second season we got to the FA Cup final and lost with a whimper. The CL we went out with a whimper. Similarly the League Cup. The league with us coming 2nd behind the most successful league team ever on lots of metrics is maybe quite reasonable given their financial doping.

So whilst it wasn't necessarily a success in SAF terms. Was it a reasonable return when looking at the two seasons combined?

The third half season has been a disaster no question.

Just an interesting alternative view.

No question of him deserving to go on anything like that. I simply think maybe he got the best of a bad bunch and his style simply wont bring success over a longer period.

It definitely was not a success because his target was to take United back to the top, that means win the Prem and/or win the Champions League. Winning the Europa League and the Carabao Cup, while we fans loved that, does not equate to success in United terms. When you consider the money that was spent on that squad, and the fact we are the richest club in world football, finishing runners up in the Prem and then slumping to where we are now does not mean success. It's not just about finishing second, it is how far we are behind City and the kind of football that our rivals are dishing out.

Mourinho was never going to be a long term solution. He does not have a wider vision of the clubs he is at. He is always about short term. Never about the future.

I had hoped that maybe he would change. But it he is incapable of changing.

 

[Sky1981]

No but i never said win the League next year, i did say a club of United's stature should be challenging for major honours. It could be next season or the season after and yes it's going to be tough bridging the current gap but as long as the board make the right appointment, there's no reason why we can't start challenging again.

There are multiple of reasons apart from who's incharge.

A better manager can made us play better and results will come along, but we're still far from promised land. IF we get the next appointment right it'll still be a few years till we realistically expect a title, unless something extraordinary happens.

 

[spiriticon]

For me, yes. He came in and got instant success, as much as the team could give him for two years.

He did exactly as the instruction manual said he would do. It's just unfortunate that we chose not to heed the 'DO NOT USE AFTER 2 YEARS" warning.

 

[giorno]

He did a good job of steadying the ship, getting you back in CL in back-to-back seasons, and improving the quality of the squad. But i don't think that's what your club had in mind when they hired him.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

1st season, yes.

2nd season, a flattering league finish, but overall not great. Very disappointing CL exit, but I thought we'd made some strides forward to build on for the coming season.

3rd season was standard 3rd season Jose. Self destruction and unnecessary battles with all around him. A massive backwards step that leaves us in worse state than when LvG was sacked, and arguably than when Moyes was sacked too.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

People will point to the Europa and Carling and say he was successful but in the bigger picture no he was a disaster from day 1. Sky said last night at one point the Carling cup was the first major trophy we had won since SAF. First question when did the Carling cup become a major trophy? And does the Fa cup that LVG won not count? Stupid sky.

 

[Schneckerl]

If he'd left after the 2nd season I'd say yeah maybe, but the last few months have been so shite it cancels out everything decent he did prior.

 

[stepic]

what did I just read

 

[Christie]

what did I just read

I fear for our next manager, with our fool fans still thinking a title challenge is within our expectation. Hopefully Poch is not stupid enough to pick up the poisoned chalice.

It will be a long time before we can finish second place again. We will look back to it fondly

 

[grahamo]

He did well to complete the set for us. His ego ruined it though. Running down players in public is not on. No matter how special he thinks he is he will never be bigger than United.

 

[Adisa]

No.There's no way you can spin it.

 

[Crackers]

Nope.

 

[stevoc]

Not sure how anyone can say he's worse than Moyes tbh. Were people not watching that car crash of a reign or something? This guy actually had a couple of passable seasons before the car crash happened, while Moyes was just terrible all the time.

Moyes took a title winning team and finished 7th, while making a mockery of the club in front of the media, players, opposition, and our own fans as well. His work in the transfer market would have been funny if we weren't the ones being made a laughing stock of.

Mourinho was awful and we needed him out, but worse than Moyes? Sorry, you just don't remember that time well if you think that.

Because its too fresh in the memory, people said the same after Van Gaal. Give it 6 months to a year and most will realize he wasn't as bad as Moyes.

 

[BluesJr]

Complete failure. Some people need to remember who we are.

Nothing less than 1st place or seriously challenging will never be enough.

 

[Westerkerk]

Spent the most and achieved the most (in terms of trophies) - not sure if that constitutes a success overall.

He leaves behind him more problems than he has solved. He has added to the problems that Moyes left us with years ago. That's unforgivable .

 

[JK-27]

In terms of win rate, Mourinho is our second best manager ever, behind Fergie, and quite far ahead of Sir Matt. Take that how you wish, but thems the stats.

 

[paulscholes18]

No, failed miserably on the 3 most important things for this football club (knew two of these before he got the job), play entertaining football & brining through youth players, also winning (poor mans CL and poor mans FA Cup is not good enough)

 

[Jeffthered]

Is this a joke thread?

The man was bad for the club; damaging its reputation on and off the pitch, and damaging relations with players and board.

He should go away and show some humility, but after trousering another £25m, I doubt if he really gives a flying f***. He wrote the season off before it even commenced, and knew how this would end. Horrible man, who has lost his way, and shown v v little class.

 

[Canagel]

Hell no.
His tenure was complete failure and he leaves behind the squad in a worse state than when he arrived. His final season will be remembered for the way he downed tools after the summer and ceverly engineered his exit whilst slagging off the club, players , his superiors all in bid to preserve his rep.
The worst manager we've had post SAF