Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?

Jazz

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I've been thinking that van Gaal's dog-headedness is his own doing but as his assistant, what kind of input has Giggs been providing?
Stabbing him in the back:D
 

VivaObertan

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Part of his job is to motivate the players, and sort of replacing every member of the playing staff in the next year there isn't another solution.
Yeah if he gets sacked I'm not saying I won't understand the decision but I think the players have really let him down recently.
 

RoadTrip

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We're obviously different people - I've had shit managers yet my work has never suffered. Their attitude has nothing to do with the quality of my work. Why should the company's clients suffer because the person they are directly dealing with has a shit manager? The contract still needs to be honoured. Yes LVG should have done more - there's no disputing that - but I feel the players did not make a great effort to meet him halfway either.
The thing is, chances are in our jobs the quality of what we do isn't as affected by our managers. But our happiness is. In football, the two are far more intrinsically linked.
 

golden_blunder

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"Erm, has anybody on the forum not a feeling to apologise to me? Nobody has that feeling? That's what I’m wondering?"

I've been called agenda driven, biased, etc...
Sults whoever said that is as clueless as lvg

You're the least agenda driven person on this forum
 

RoadTrip

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If board decided to go for him,for me it meant that they decided to reset things and go in some other direction in every sense. In his first PC he said due us chasing top 4 he can not focus on ranks below first team in first season.In general thats what i expect/ed from him,to lay foundation for next manager,to sync all ranks so they all push in same direction one day.

Look maybe i am idiot (high chance) but my ambition when it comes to United is domination in one period of time and i believe thats the way how to achieve it. Thats why i dont expect from LvG entertainment,nor winning things in this moment of time. Dont take me wrong,i dont enjoy to watch boring shit,nor i enjoy in loosing but those 2 things are not first 2 places on my priority list.

Its something like Henry explaining Pep`s "my job is to bring you to this point,your job is to finish after". I never was Pep`s fan but think he could build up on LvG work for example,i just dont want us to have soft resets every 3 years. So there for i dont shout LvG out,specially not if behind corner is that cnut lurking as his replacement.
I don't necessarily disagree with that. I agree our planning should be longer term than resetting every few years and especially if we don't know who is next.

But sometimes, you get to the point where a reset is required because the direction you are going isn't going to lead to longer term results.

I haven't seen much from LVG to say we are going to be building on something longer term. That's opinions though.
 

Sultan

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I made the let's sick by lvg thread after the defeat to Bournemouth but I've now seen enough.
How was one game ever going to make a difference? How you not been watching for 18 Months? The sack should be for performance over the course of his management at United.
 

Rednotdead

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What's it like, with your head in the sand? You think we'd be having this discussion if we had even a single quality attacking midfielder that could unlock defenses? Do you think we'd be having this conversation if we had an Ozil? Nope.

Look at our attack. Look at it. Tell me that it has no blame in the current situation? Memphis is absolutely terrible. He might come good, in a few years, right now he is garbage. Rooney is clearly past it physically and that was 70% of his game. Mata is invisible 75% of the time. Herrera isn't very good. Lingard isn't very good. Martial is the lone bright spot, but it's hard to influence the game when you're an island in a sea of shite.

The tactics are giving the players the opportunity to create opportunities. They aren't doing it. Worse, when they do bumblefeck their way into a clear cut chance, Muffintop plays pass with the keeper.
What's it like to be in denial?

Who brought the new players in? Who retained the ones who were already there? Who spent £300m on the new players? Who has had 18 months to get the side organised? Who makes baffling substitutions and team selections?

Open your eyes.
 

Jazz

Just in case anyone missed it. I don't like Mount.
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The thing is, chances are in our jobs the quality of what we do isn't as affected by our managers. But our happiness is. In football, the two are far more intrinsically linked.
Nah, I think there's more freedom for the football player than for the ordinary worker. I get it's complicated in the dressing room, but the players still have a duty to perform to the best of their abilities irrespective of any difficulties - this is why I assume they are paid obscene amounts of money? The more you get in life, the more that is expected of you. I don't know, maybe I'm too old fashioned (like LVG:D), but I cannot and will not abide a lack of effort from anyone. Sorry, it goes against my principles and I ain't changing that point of view on account of football players of all people.
 

Tosicsleftpeg

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How was one game ever going to make a difference? How you not been watching for 18 Months? The sack should be for performance over the course of his management at United.
Two games.

I wasn't particularly happy with the way things were going but our league position was ok and defensively we had been solid. The last 3 games have been alarming though and its clear his position has become untenable. I had been waiting for the attack to click with the defence to create a cohesive unit and wrote the Bournemouth game off but its clear now the way forward.

At least im honest and don't say I've been lvg out for months life some people.
 

RoadTrip

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Nah, I think there's more freedom for the football player than for the ordinary worker. I get it's complicated in the dressing room, but the players still have a duty to perform to the best of their abilities irrespective of any difficulties - this is why I assume they are paid obscene amounts of money? The more you get in life, the more that is expected of you. I don't know, maybe I'm too old fashioned (like LVG:D), but I cannot and will not abide a lack of effort from anyone. Sorry, it goes against my principles and I ain't changing that point of view on account of football players of all people.
You're missing the point. but yeah, the lack of effort is extremely disappointing. But I'm not naive enough to not attribute a small amount of that to LVG.
 

golden_blunder

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Jesus that look he gave the reporter at the end of the post match interview

He can't even defend himself anymore
 

SalfordRed1960

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Yeah if he gets sacked I'm not saying I won't understand the decision but I think the players have really let him down recently.
Have to agree. I won't defend him, but I will support him. There is something missing in a lot of these players. The senior players, and particularly the PL experienced players have been dross. It was actually nice to see some passion from Rooney for once.
 

Badunk

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I don't think he's totally to blame, same as I didn't think Moyes was totally to blame. We were lucky to have a manager who could turn donkeys into racehorses. A lot of the blame is on the players as far as I'm concerned. It's not LVG's fault that Fellaini can't win most of his headers. It's not his fault that Depay cuts back onto his right every time, thus making it a simple task to defend against him. I could go through the entire team and do the same. Half the squad are not United standard and we've shot ourselves in the foot for years, giving contracts to useless lumps like Nani, Valencia and Young, instead of doing what we've done for decades: have a superb player in every single position and an excellent backup should he get injured or lose their form.
 

7even

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It's sad that people are enjoying this, and I really do like LvG, but I'll admit I'm starting to wonder if a change of manager is the only thing that'll get us out of this funk.

The players are clearly trying, fighting hard, they're just all rubbish at the moment. Confidence is so low, and we're not getting that bit of luck to drag us out of it either.

The worry is who we get in instead. Mourinho managed to make a better team even worse than us this season, and Giggs just isn't remotely qualified.
Agree with this but let's not hesitate regarding Mourinho. We need experience from a proven winner and we need it now.
 

adexkola

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LVG has surely made mistakes. But still feel he had a lot going against him. His mistake was being too respectful of the clubs old boys - they've brought him down; and also not adapting quickly enough to the league and the players at his disposal - just putting his trust in mostly the wrong players.

Amidst all the negativity though, I still support him, but the players are not playing for him so he has to go for the good of the club and supporters. Feck the players - couldn't care less about most of them after the lack of fight they've shown. Disappointed more than anything that it's come to this. I find him a decent man (regardless of what anyone says on here), and I wish him the best.
I agree. No complaints if the board decided to cut him loose, but it's more than the manager.
 

Revan

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TBF we were playing without a left footed cb.
Yep. We lost the game only because of that and because LVG was forced to not play his captain cause of pressure from the media/fans.

If he had sticked by his philoshophy, we would have win. But, it is a process.
 

Esquire

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I have said he needs to go. Not arguing with that because him staying at this point is not good for the club - wasn't arguing about that at all.
But today and the last couple of matches have made me so fecking mad at these players - they also have a responsibility. For the last couple of days we've read Carrick, Rooney, Mata complaining about what they eat, when they eat and training too hard and all that shit - are we supposed to feel sorry for them? What kind of precious bastards are they? It just shows you the mentality in that dressing room - no way we can win or get out of a bad spell with people like that leading the rest of the players. Fecks me off.
Mate we are on the same page. Today's performance by some of the players really put me off. They showed no heart but rather a healthy dose of cowardice. Some of them clearly should not be United players.
 

GloryHunter07

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I wouldn't say im an appologist but im more behind him than others have been. Every team gets bad results but we are just going from one to another without any sort of reaction which is most worrying.
 

LR7

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He is a great manager, and I would like him to stay till the end of the season, but I think he's finished. Pretty sure Woodward will sack him tonight / tomorrow.
Looks probable we'lll install Mourinho (God I hope I'm wrong). And he'll probably be in the stand watching against Chelsea.
Agree with all of this.
 

Santiago_KinderBueno

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Come January we can add to what i see as a poor squad in quality & quantity. I think he took a risk that back fired loaning out the likes of januzaj and targeting players like ramos & muller throughout the summer.

Getting to January shouldn't have been this hard though. I dont think he's some title winning manager.. Just he can make a squad that another manager can handle much better than what most managers would leave behind.

Im running out of excuses too though.
 

Arytonblue

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This sudden shift of blame to our apparently 'cowardly, gutless and retched' squad players is just so irritating and predictable. It happened exactly the same way during Moyes' season because god help us if we determine that the team selections, tactics and instructions from the manager aren't good enough. There was hardly a word about this relegation quality, evil, deceiving group of players until the last 2 games when the shít truly began to hit the fan, why now? Because there's literally feck all to defend Van Gaal with? Seeing as he looks like a goner now and has nothing to justify his position there's a drive to paint him as the unlucky one that was wronged by the squad of players (most of whom he brought in) that are literally worse than Hitler, by the pathetic press that would dare question him and finally by the greedy, glory hunting fans that simply expected far too much and should be happy with their lot. Give over, the man failed in his job, both parties should move on and get over it, really not that big of a deal.

Also there's a grand conspiracy that the 'old boys' like Giggs/ Scholes/Neville are working in conjunction with the tabloids and are collaborating to undermine and bring Van Gaal down, apparently, because that sounds reasonable.
 

Esquire

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This sudden shift of blame to our apparently 'cowardly, gutless and retched' squad players is just so irritating and predictable. It happened exactly the same way during Moyes' season because god help us if we determine that the team selections, tactics and instructions from the manager aren't good enough. There was hardly a word about this relegation quality, evil, deceiving group of players until the last 2 games when the shít truly began to hit the fan, why now? Because there's literally feck all to defend Van Gaal with? Seeing as he looks like a goner now and has nothing to justify his position there's a drive to paint him as the unlucky one that was wronged by the squad of players (most of whom he brought in) that are literally worse than Hitler, by the pathetic press that would dare question him and finally by the greedy, glory hunting fans that simply expected far too much and should be happy with their lot. Give over, the man failed in his job, both parties should move on and get over it, really not that big of a deal.

Also there's a grand conspiracy that the 'old boys' like Giggs/ Scholes/Neville are working in conjunction with the tabloids and are collaborating to undermine and bring Van Gaal down, apparently, because that sounds reasonable.
There may be some apologists still using the players as an excuse for LVG. However, the past couple of games have also shown some players in really bad light. Especially today, you would agree that many players really lacked passion, heart or mettle. They deserve a significant part of the blame for this free fall. But I think 99% of the folks here would agree with you that LVG failed miserably.
 

Jazz

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Mate we are on the same page. Today's performance by some of the players really put me off. They showed no heart but rather a healthy dose of cowardice. Some of them clearly should not be United players.
The sad thing is I knew once Rooney was made captain it wouldn't go well. It's just the wrong person to instill the right mentality into the new players as well (so missed that Patrice wasn't there). Everything he touches, be it England etc, it's all hype and no substance. So LVG and the club erred on keeping Rooney sweet. I could see that the attitude wouldn't be right and I hoped I was wrong. Not saying Rooney is the only one to blame - but given his position and influence - it's obviously caused problems. Good player he's been, but just doesn't have any leadership qualities.

Having said that, don't the other players have any professional pride? I just can't understand this. You watch other sports and see how professional athletes behave - nothing at all like footballers. Amazing difference from the way they conduct themselves, their discipline, hard work, they way they stick to their diets, their desire to be the best and give their all even if it doesn't work out for them.... and our lot can't even make half of that effort:rolleyes: Very hurt by this.
 

Kevin

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Some people have lost their dignity about the whole LvG thing. He should be sacked now but the crying and lambasting is laughable.
 

Moriarty

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Come January we can add to what i see as a poor squad in quality & quantity. I think he took a risk that back fired loaning out the likes of januzaj and targeting players like ramos & muller throughout the summer.

Getting to January shouldn't have been this hard though. I dont think he's some title winning manager.. Just he can make a squad that another manager can handle much better than what most managers would leave behind.

Im running out of excuses too though.
And Neymar and Bale. Sure, it would be nice to get a player of this calibre but it appears that much time and effort was expended on chasing the unattainable rather than bringing in a new centre half, a winger, and a striker. The same happened in 2013 when we chased Fabregas. We really need a DoF to come in and take over the transfer dealings. Woodward's only involvement should be signing a cheque.
 

Esquire

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And Neymar and Bale. Sure, it would be nice to get a player of this calibre but it appears that much time and effort was expended on chasing the unattainable rather than bringing in a new centre half, a winger, and a striker. The same happened in 2013 when we chased Fabregas. We really need a DoF to come in and take over the transfer dealings. Woodward's only involvement should be signing a cheque.
Ed thinks he is David Gill.
 

Feed Me

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Van Gaal isn't doing a particularly good job, that's clear for all to see, and he does need to go now, but the majority of our players are a gutless disgrace. Whoever comes in has a massive job on their hands.