Yep and he's only going to fatigue more as the season progresses.
We might just make it work if Mourinho starts to rotate him.
Is Zlatan holding us back at the moment?
- Thread starter djdhrubs
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
We might just make it work if Mourinho starts to rotate him.
It has been said before but you can walk through the french league especially in a possession dominant side like a PSG. You need much more work rate in the EPL. For me this Zlatan issue is nothing to do with his quality, it is a pure physical problem which is having an impact on him technically.. hence the poor passing and sloppy touches, let alone the finishing.
He's obviously more nimble than a Rooney and merits being in the side, but he does need to be used sparingly. He looks like he is overexerting himself and abit out of sorts. Needs a rest for two games.
I have no doubts about Zlatan his workrate and commitment to the team looks evident, the goals will start to flow again.
Of course we miss Martial when he doesn't play. Saying we don't it's what's "crazy".
He was crap last night but he's been good mostly. I would have taken him off in the second half and replaced him with fresh legs because he was barely putting any pressure on their CBs.
He was too isolated and received close to zero support. The refereeing yesterday was pure garbage as well. Matip and Lovren fouled him from behind numerous times and they weren't punished for it at all.
I genuinely think he is holding us back.
Its completely fine being slow, 36, often flat footed when watching others around you press more if you are clinical when the chances come your way. In my honest opinion he hasn't been clinical enough. Open goal versus City (he caressed the ball lethargically and it was an easy off-the-line clearance for the CB), one on one missed against Stoke in the first 2 mins and then yesterdays gaping header where he should at least hit the target. These are 3 examples from memory but I am sure there are one or two more.
I do wonder how our team would be different if we had Rashford in that central role, because whilst we miss out on the target man, we'd benefit on faster counters and more interlinking play with wingers. I wouldn't drop him just yet, but I do think he's starting to hold us back. Hopefully he can get that ruthlessness back. I don't think its a case of him being isolated because he is getting some very good chances.
Its completely fine being slow, 36, often flat footed when watching others around you press more if you are clinical when the chances come your way. In my honest opinion he hasn't been clinical enough. Open goal versus City (he caressed the ball lethargically and it was an easy off-the-line clearance for the CB), one on one missed against Stoke in the first 2 mins and then yesterdays gaping header where he should at least hit the target. These are 3 examples from memory but I am sure there are one or two more.
I do wonder how our team would be different if we had Rashford in that central role, because whilst we miss out on the target man, we'd benefit on faster counters and more interlinking play with wingers. I wouldn't drop him just yet, but I do think he's starting to hold us back. Hopefully he can get that ruthlessness back. I don't think its a case of him being isolated because he is getting some very good chances.
I don't buy this isolated argument though. He had a great chance to head on target from 3 yards out and didn't do so. You're only going to get one or two great chances away at Anfield regardless (we got a result there from one shot on target under LVG IIRC). He just isn't clinical enough yet.
Before Martial scored a goal, people were saying Lingard deserved to play ahead of him. Now all of a sudden, Martial should be in for Zlatan
That's more because they are craving to see Martial in his true role as a striker I think.
I would like to see 4-4-2 with Martial and Zlatan up front. Miki and Rashford wide.
Its a bit worrying alright that he is not Clinical enough. Should have buried the chance against Stoke and should have scored last night also.
Everybody knows he's a flat track bully ! We should use him in the right games, definitely not Anfield away which won't happen obviously.
Rooney played badly for 18 months. He scored 8 league goals last season.
Ibra is playing average for 2 months. He scored 4 league goals so far.
Big difference.
I think we need to use him for the right reasons... against teams who sit back that we find hard to break down, who we're throwing cross after cross against, he's perfect. He can sit there, bully the defenders and his lack of pace wouldn't matter so much. But in matches when we use tactics like against Liverpool, he's totally the wrong man for me.. that's where i'd prefer Martial or Rashford.
I get it though, rather than play on the break for the goal, i'm guessing we were going for the goal off a set piece because that's Liverpool's weakness... and if he'd have gotten his one real chance in last night then different story.
Anyway it's my fault, he's not scored since i've added him to my fantasy football.. i'm gonna ditch him now, so expect a hat trick next week
I get it though, rather than play on the break for the goal, i'm guessing we were going for the goal off a set piece because that's Liverpool's weakness... and if he'd have gotten his one real chance in last night then different story.
Anyway it's my fault, he's not scored since i've added him to my fantasy football.. i'm gonna ditch him now, so expect a hat trick next week
Indeed.
What happens is when a player is benched or doesn't play due to bad form, fans will say, "we need that player in the team. If he plays, we can win."
The same thing is being said about Mhiki, even though the last time he played, he was so bad that he was hooked at half time.
In yesterday's game, we were playing a defensive game, which means that Martial probably would not have got much of the ball as he'd have been defending most of the game. So his attacking flair is not something we would've seen much of.
In any case, Martial was injured, so there was no chance of him playing anyway.
I know what you mean but Rooney would be slaughtered for a performance like that. His hold up play was non existent.
Yes we were, especially in the second half. All the more importance of taking advantage of the chances you get and at least making the keeper work on a nice cross into the box. That header attempt was poor, I expect more from him. He's missed several others also. That said, I am a fan of his and think and hope he gets back on track. But I'm not going to give him a pass on some of his poor play when we'd be ripping others. It may be good for him to sit a game or two.
He looks like a real short term solution. No renewals here Woody.
Yeah, 4 years, about 0.6 foot and 12kg difference.
Seriously though, Zlatan's quality dictates that he should be at least hitting the target. Not fecking heading the ball like a 13 year old on a Sunday afternoon.
He sets the standards for himself, expects everybody to follow suit and when it counts he should at least be hitting the target.
Anyway, I'd rather him than Rooney in all honesty.
Its not a bad shout but then you're asking two players to be absolute wingers, which won't really work imo. In a 433 they have more licence to cut infield, whereas a 442 obliges wider players to almost hug the touchline. A Mahrez/Young Valencia sort of player would be fine there, but I'm not too sure it suits Mkhitaryan as much and I don't think it helps Rashford's development much either.
This
I have said it many times, and you are not wrong. However, Zlatan needs pace around him, put Martial and Rashford in a more narrow position in front of him and he will give you much more. If he is to be played as a lone striker, you will be disappointed. He played poorly yesterday, but the tactics also did not suit him.
It's a bit of both I think. Zlatan has missed chances but he's also not getting much service. The front four (whoever it's been this season) have generally not looked up to scratch in terms of interplay. Maybe the Leicester match was different if you want to say that.
What we desperately miss is a solidified no.10 (I'd be going for Mata) and two genuine wide players. I'm quite tired of seeing players like Rashford, Lingard, Rooney and Young out there.
Ideally Martial and Miki on form and we'll go from there.
Zlatan is still probably doing better than any other striker we have in the squad considering these failings - at least he fights and has potential magic up his sleeve. Specifically I think Rooney would be much worse at present and I don't think Rashford would be all that more successful aside from perhaps beating slow centre-backs with his speed (which isn't always going to happen each match).
What we desperately miss is a solidified no.10 (I'd be going for Mata) and two genuine wide players. I'm quite tired of seeing players like Rashford, Lingard, Rooney and Young out there.
Ideally Martial and Miki on form and we'll go from there.
Zlatan is still probably doing better than any other striker we have in the squad considering these failings - at least he fights and has potential magic up his sleeve. Specifically I think Rooney would be much worse at present and I don't think Rashford would be all that more successful aside from perhaps beating slow centre-backs with his speed (which isn't always going to happen each match).
I think it was always going to be a bit of a wake up call for him coming from La Ligue to the Premier League where the defences are generally so much better organised, disciplined and just plain better. It's a tougher game for him now. Not sure what he has to get on top of it....but with his ego he will probably find a way!
Yup, agree. It gets too much focus. Not only here though, in football discussion everywhere (in my experience at least)
Sorry but if you're playing on the break like we were last night you need speed. If you're not, not so much.
That header was baffling. I would give him a couple more chances, but he needs to get with it.
Well, the problem isn't Ibrahimovic's pace then but an attacking gameplan that doesn't suit the personnel, also the fact that other players with pace failed to create chances for themselves and for their teammates kind of show that Ibrahimovic wasn't the problem.
From an attacking standpoint Mourinho's plan was a failure.
Maybe, but all other things being equal (ball skills, control, mental approach, etc.) speed is a good thing. I realize that isn't exactly an Earth shattering revelation.
Of course speed is important, and someone like me out there would be destroyed (with a 20 km/h top speed). But the difference in speed between the top players is smaller than what the discussion makes it to be.
Rooney was our third fastest player yesterday, that should indicate speed wasn't the main issue.
Not really. I'm sure the plan didn't involve the ball bouncing off Ibra like he was an anvil, or Pogba being unable to complete the most simple passes.
If Ibra had held the ball up for long enough to get support around him and/or Pogba hadn't passed one out of every four passes to a Liverpool player I suspect the plan would have looked a lot more sensible.
Zlatan was a stupid signing that requires the rest of the team to adapt to his strengths and weaknesses, which happen to be the complete opposite to Rashford's, for one season.
That's true, our attacking players didn't performed well. Now it's surprising to see every single one of them play badly at the same time.
Our roster fit his strength though, we just don't want to try it.
This
--------Ibrahimovic
Cavani-----------Lucas/Di Maria
-----Matuidi-----Verratti
---------Thiago Motta
Isn't much different to that
---------Ibrahimovic
Martial-------------Mkhitaryan
------Pogba----Herrera
-----------Carrick
At the exception of Herrera every other player can carry the same instructions.
Mikhi and Di Maria are very different btw.
Zlatan is the cause of this.
That's why I put both Di Maria and Lucas. Ibrahimovic played well with players.
He is best left ignored. Just another high and mighty Bayern fan.
Zlatan is the cause of our offensive flaws? No not really, he has been a big part of them recently, but he is not the cause.
Would prefer to have Martial playing up top to be honest, and I am really hopeful that we will see him as a true #9 fairly soon. Still think Ibra will have scored 15+ goals by the end of the season. No doubt Zlatan at his peak would have torn this league many new holes, however, he is aging and a bit too old to carry us on, unfortunately. Shame that Rashford and Martial are still very young, whereas Wayne's legs are gone.