It is tiring pretending that there is not a right way to 'support' a club - there absolutely is

TrustInJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
4,512
That's a VERY tough requirement when it comes to football, of which emotion is a huge part. There's also a lot that is subjective about it: if someone says that they believe we're too disjointed and not playing as well as the results suggest, how do you defend that with 'sound logic'? Sure, you can point to xG stats and the like but ultimately it's a subjective impression.

And there is one thing that bothers me about this thread, and similar threads: it's that negative and abusive somehow get lumped in together, as if they are equal 'sins'. That shitposting and pessimism are both regularly mentioned as things that bring the quality down, with no differentiating between the two. Yet I feel that 'clueless PE teacher' and 'I don't think he has what it takes to get us to the next level' are VERY different things and the latter should not be a reason to turn you off Redcafe.
I'm not sure I agree. There's nothing wrong with using a subjective argument against someone, in fact, I'd argue that is often better placed than plucking some random stats out the air. My argument to 'we are disjointed and not playing well' would be; there have been a number of factors which have contributed to lower performance levels compared to last season. Firstly no preparation for the season which left us unfit and behind all our rivals. Secondly, the form of some of our key players on the back of that start has suffered; Pogba has taken time to get over Covid, Martial has only just started to perform to an acceptable level which we know he is capable of. Sometimes in certain periods, it's not always possible to play at 100% and blow teams away, playing scintillating football and you have to show the mentality to get results. What I believe is that this team has the fundamentals in place to turn around our bad periods of form and show stronger performances which is what we are now seeing now. To me at least, that's a logical argument which defends that initial argument, is it right? If you can't answer one of your opinion posts in that manner with a reasoned and thought our response you have to realise it was irrational and isn't contributing to the debate. (PS I don't always do that myself, but I know I should.

Personally, I'm not lumping those two opinions together. Hell personally even as a big Ole fan through his whole tenure I still worry about that final step as that's a step into the unknown, I'm just willing to give him the chance while others aren't. I feel its the personal attacks like the 'PE teacher' or the 'clueless coach' which really detract from the quality of posts and the wider forum.
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
11,035
And there is one thing that bothers me about this thread, and similar threads: it's that negative and abusive somehow get lumped in together, as if they are equal 'sins'. That shitposting and pessimism are both regularly mentioned as things that bring the quality down, with no differentiating between the two. Yet I feel that 'clueless PE teacher' and 'I don't think he has what it takes to get us to the next level' are VERY different things and the latter should not be a reason to turn you off Redcafe.
Agree completely. I've read dozens of excellently written arguments against the manager, even if I don't personally agree with them.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
2,579
Just so we are clear - your example of me being horrendously negative under Mourinho include a post made when Ole was in charge?

Just so people are aware - when Mourinho was here I believe I won multiple funniest thread and top red awards on the forum.My threads literally made the news for being so well researched and there were hundreds of people coming around to my way of thinking. I actively made the board a better place.
I would go as far as saying you stopped a civil war between 600 million United fans paving the way for peaceful times we are living in.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,302
It also doesn't make sense to compare an online forum with a stadium atmosphere. They're completely different mediums.

Compared to other football forums, the caf is the best I've seen by far, and I'd wager changes to make it swing in one direction or the other will make it worse than it currently is.
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
9,541
Location
That's the joke.
We need a Make RedCafe Great Again campaign, supporters on here were just so much better back in the day (apart from devilish)
 

Plymouth Red

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
399
I hate Dalot the most.
Let’s consider first what it means to hate
verb
hated; hating
Definition of hate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to feel extreme enmity toward : to regard with active hostility hates his country's enemies
2: to have a strong aversion to : find very distasteful hated to have to meet strangershate hypocrisy
intransitive verb
: to express or feel extreme enmity or active hostility harsh faces and hating eyes— Katherine A. Porter
hate one's guts
: to hate someone with great intensity

So one moment you’re chastising folk for voicing opinions in a way that you consider not befitting a proper supporter, then you casually throw in a comment that you hate individuals who each did their best in their own way and as they saw fit for the club.
Let’s assume you haven’t met any of them and they didn’t personally carry out a despicable act against you or your family. Even so, they have created a feeling of hatred in you.
Absolutely astonishing for someone who is so obsessed with picking holes in any and everyone else.
I need to pay more attention to the national news because clearly I missed your appointment as King.
 

simplyared

Full Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
3,286
Location
somewhere ouside the UK
Let’s consider first what it means to hate
verb
hated; hating
Definition of hate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to feel extreme enmity toward : to regard with active hostility hates his country's enemies
2: to have a strong aversion to : find very distasteful hated to have to meet strangershate hypocrisy
intransitive verb
: to express or feel extreme enmity or active hostility harsh faces and hating eyes— Katherine A. Porter
hate one's guts
: to hate someone with great intensity

So one moment you’re chastising folk for voicing opinions in a way that you consider not befitting a proper supporter, then you casually throw in a comment that you hate individuals who each did their best in their own way and as they saw fit for the club.
Let’s assume you haven’t met any of them and they didn’t personally carry out a despicable act against you or your family. Even so, they have created a feeling of hatred in you.
Absolutely astonishing for someone who is so obsessed with picking holes in any and everyone else.
I need to pay more attention to the national news because clearly I missed your appointment as King.
Well that's the nail on the head isn't it? Nothing wrong with the thread's message. Just it's creator!
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,434
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Let’s consider first what it means to hate
verb
hated; hating
Definition of hate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to feel extreme enmity toward : to regard with active hostility hates his country's enemies
2: to have a strong aversion to : find very distasteful hated to have to meet strangershate hypocrisy
intransitive verb
: to express or feel extreme enmity or active hostility harsh faces and hating eyes— Katherine A. Porter
hate one's guts
: to hate someone with great intensity

So one moment you’re chastising folk for voicing opinions in a way that you consider not befitting a proper supporter, then you casually throw in a comment that you hate individuals who each did their best in their own way and as they saw fit for the club.
Let’s assume you haven’t met any of them and they didn’t personally carry out a despicable act against you or your family. Even so, they have created a feeling of hatred in you.
Absolutely astonishing for someone who is so obsessed with picking holes in any and everyone else.
I need to pay more attention to the national news because clearly I missed your appointment as King.
Sorry - I despise Dalot was more apt.
 

Fluctuation0161

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
3,916
Location
Manchester
We need a Make RedCafe Great Again campaign, supporters on here were just so much better back in the day (apart from devilish)
It doesn't work, MRGA.

Redcafe Independence Party could work. R.I.P.

:lol:
 

pablo__p

Full Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
1,202
Location
Wrocław
Quick question to the top red police. Are we allowed to bitch about ex-united captain, now a clown of a pundit?
 

owlo

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
992
The thing is Bilbo, I do exactly the same thing and it's clear reading this thread that many of the reasonable and better posters on this forum do the same. The issue is that just creates a vacuum of decent posters after a defeat which shrouds the whole place in negative energy. Surely if this forum was as reasonable as we would like we should all be able to come on here and discuss what went wrong and constructively break down the performances. Those are conversations I want to have on here but you can't because a few negative fans drown out the rest.
I don’t think many come to this forum for some sort of detached robotic analysis though. Negative energy after a loss, although unpleasant at the time is a product of people actually giving a shit. Would we really like it to be more reasonable than that and all be engaged in some sort of groupthink whereby our disappointment may only be conveyed by rational discussion?

Does the idea that moderate posters shy away from posting after a defeat seem to have any basis in reality or is it just a theory?

I think it’s natural that we’re more bitter as a fan base nowadays.
 

owlo

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
992
That's a VERY tough requirement when it comes to football, of which emotion is a huge part. There's also a lot that is subjective about it: if someone says that they believe we're too disjointed and not playing as well as the results suggest, how do you defend that with 'sound logic'? Sure, you can point to xG stats and the like but ultimately it's a subjective impression.

And there is one thing that bothers me about this thread, and similar threads: it's that negative and abusive somehow get lumped in together, as if they are equal 'sins'. That shitposting and pessimism are both regularly mentioned as things that bring the quality down, with no differentiating between the two. Yet I feel that 'clueless PE teacher' and 'I don't think he has what it takes to get us to the next level' are VERY different things and the latter should not be a reason to turn you off Redcafe.
Exactly this. It’s a fan forum. Emotion rules. (As an aside I wouldn’t say ‘clueless pe teacher’ was abusive in any way, unless said to his face or something. Not words id use, but simply a way to portray feelings. Something like ‘golem faced whatever I can’t think of insult here’ would be abusI’ve)
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
11,035
Would we really like it to be more reasonable than that and all be engaged in some sort of groupthink whereby our disappointment may only be conveyed by rational discussion?

Does the idea that moderate posters shy away from posting after a defeat seem to have any basis in reality or is it just a theory?
Cant speak for anyone else, but for me - absolutely yes.

The definition of a forum is: 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged'.

It definitely isn't 'a place where people who wish to debate ideas go to read about how Jamie from Leeds thinks that Maguire is a slabhead cnut who can feck off'. Leave that to twitter please. Those people can go there and be surrounded by many like-minded souls.
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,434
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
It doesn't work, MRGA.

Redcafe Independence Party could work. R.I.P.

:lol:
How about
Posters
Requiring
Intellectual
Content and
Knowledge

I genuinely think that could work. I’m proud to say I’m a PRICK and I challenge anyone to join me in sharing your PRICK status.

Would we really like it to be more reasonable than that and all be engaged in some sort of groupthink whereby our disappointment may only be conveyed by rational discussion?
Yes please
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,434
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
I can't imagine how anyone could possibly disagree with you so perhaps this is the ideal point to bring this thread to a close.
Forget about his playing career and concentrate on Ole the man.

He isn't an inspirational or imposing figure. He doesn't generate confidence in others whether on the touchline or in a presser. He tries to be a diplomat (e.g the current Raiola situation) when he actually needs to show he has real steel.

He makes excuses when there are really none to be made. There's no obvious fire in his belly or energy and emotion when he speaks about big games. Listening to him is always, frankly, a bit boring because his tone is monotonous and his choice of words is dull.

On this basis, what are the chances of a team talk with him being truly motivational? You could point to the fact that we keep coming back from being behind, but all that says is we're not actually prepared properly from the off. And what is being said in the dressing room at OT before games? Whatever the words are, they aren't effective.

We will never know what happens within the squad between the players and the coaches, but nothing points towards the players holding the coaches and managers in high regard, which has to be worrying and unsustainable.
Do you ever worry that you might not be a good judge of character?
 

Plymouth Red

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
399
Do you ever worry that you might not be a good judge of character?
No, not really.
Firstly, as I've said elsewhere, perception is reality and I'm pretty sure what I said about Ole and how I read him has been said by others here. However, last night I posted " I'm not sure how it's come about but hats off to the team, Ole and the coaches for achieving something that hasn't happened since 2012."
If, like the team, he's becoming more effective, that's all I want to see, which is surely what any supporter would want.
I also posted " Well done, Paul Pogba! A great display. I can't remember seeing a better all-round performance from him and he thoroughly deserved MOTM. I have criticised his attitude previously and advocated selling him, but if I knew he was going to play like this consistently, I would not want to see him leave the club". Once more, I'm happy to change my position if someone changes theirs.
 

Olecurls99

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 6, 2021
Messages
40
It's 6 losses in 33 in 2020.
Ah ya sneaky devil. 3 losses in January before Bruno arrived and Ole finally got to stop playing Perreira. 3 league losses in 31 since Bruno arrived and we all know how those 3 losses happened. Come on now. That's pretty good going and grounds for optimism.
I understand some doubts based on the fact we're not pasting teams like we were in the summer but it's starting to look like belligerence at this stage considering those stats.
 

willrowe99

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
3
Supports
Southampton
Hello,
I am a Student at Manchester Metropolitan University and for my final year undergraduate dissertation I am looking into the global nature of football and its impact upon football fans and fan cultures.
I am looking to survey Manchester City fans for this and would like to ask your help in getting respondents to my survey questions.

https://mmu.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/dissertation-survey-globalisation-and-football
Thanks!
 

Wumminator

The Special One!
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
19,434
Location
Obertans #1 fan.
Hello,
I am a Student at Manchester Metropolitan University and for my final year undergraduate dissertation I am looking into the global nature of football and its impact upon football fans and fan cultures.
I am looking to survey Manchester City fans for this and would like to ask your help in getting respondents to my survey questions.

https://mmu.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/dissertation-survey-globalisation-and-football
Thanks!
wrong forum, board and thread which is quite impressive tbf.