I think he just doesn't have it for United and we should sell him before his value drops below 40 mil...
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 41
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 0
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I never watched him in Germany, never followed him until he signed for us.
Genuinely underwhelmed, have no idea what the fuss is about.
Genuinely underwhelmed, have no idea what the fuss is about.
That moment of Ten Hag and Sancho smiling and laughing as he was being brought on for the first time since his sabbatical seems like a long time ago. I had so much hope in the moment, but he hasn't improved since his time in the Netherlands.
You really don't believe he has that ability?
True. Antony loves a check-back, but he does something with it after.
I really just didn’t see the positives in that performance that others seem to have seen.
He definitely does, no idea why he’s refusing to even attempt to use it though.
Bizarre but true ! He would qualify as HG in Portugal though
He’s not slow but could probably benefit from United getting a sprint coach in, he has the physical attributes, he 5’11 long enough stride just needs to work with a sprint coach .
Let me remind you that Chris Smalling was clocked at 34.47kmh during the trip to West Brom back in 2016
Top speed is a meaningless stat if your acceleration is shit.
What's odd about that though, Smalling was always one of our fastest centrebacks when he played here?
But back to the point of this thread, Sancho continues to play within himself these past few weeks. He's had decent games but he lacks some of the speed, strength and desire that Rashford and Antony have. No doubting his technical qualities though and eye for a pass.
I think this is probably happening with a lot of people. I was wondering if so many people watched a different game to me. The bar is incredibly low for Sancho in terms of what is perceived as a good game.
I didn't say how much more it is than I make in 3 months! Several times more!
Just watched the replay against Nottingham Forest. He did excellently.
Let's have a look at the stats lads because I think the general consensus on here is overly critical and quite lazy.
I'm gonna compare his stats against all the other wide players in the PL this season. I'm gonna look at the attributes everybody would look for in a Man United wide attacker.
Stats are per 90 minutes.
Goals: He's better than 75% of the wide attackers in the league
Assists: He's better than 54%
Expected assists: 58%
Shot Creating Actions: 86%
Take ons: 71%
Progressive passes, carries and passes received: 70%
Pass completion: 95%
Passes attempted(Hideability): 75%
These stats show a player that while not dominating, is a top end PL wide player. I think the lads stats have much room for improvement. I don't think lazy overcriticism will help.
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Where are those stats from?
In any case, it is certainly lazy to quote season stats as an argument that it's wrong to claim he's not showing steady improvement in recent games, or that his performance since returning has been uneven to say the least.
Also, I think you may overestimate how positive a picture those stats paint. No one's got top percentiles across the board, but if you're identifying someone who is a successful performer for a top team, and trying to define the contributions that makes him successful, you're basically looking at a player who is one of the five-ten best wide forwards in the league. So you're looking at above 80 percentiles, and there should be quite a few of those. A couple of those you quote (assists and expected assists) are actually rather damningly bang average.
I'm not questioning that he's a good player, nor that he has played well on many occasions this season. But too often he hasn't, and his last two games have been poor, in my opinion. Again, except the second half against Forest, which was good.
Everytime he gets the ball I have zero confidence he is going to do anything dangerous to the full back. In fact I normally expect him to get bulldozed off the ball or for him to pass it back to his team mate.
Let's be honest, he should be moved on but we will be unable to shift him because of his huge wages. He is an okay squad option but honestly someone like Amad or Pellestri should probably be vying to overtake him in the pecking order next season.
I'd go as far as saying he is our most disappointing signing ever. Pogba and Di Maria gave us more.
I'd go as far as saying he is our most disappointing signing ever. Pogba and Di Maria gave us more.
As much as I’d love for him to fire, there is absolutely nothing he has done so far to show he is a top end PL wide player so far. I’m all for supporting him and getting behind him, but the truth is he’s done nothing more than average performances and below average stats so far.
Strange to use Smalling as an example. Smalling was quick in full flight and decent acceleration too. He didn’t really need stats to illustrate that he was quick.
respectfully, contributions per 90 can also be deceptive which is why it is good to combine the two (contributions per 90) (contributions per game).
Jadon rarely completes 90 mins so his data is skewed in that regard. It was like this with Martial under Jose (looked good per 90).
Fact is Jadon has 5 goals and 2 assists in 30 apps. Had 5 goals 3 assists in 38 apps last year. The reason he does not complete 90 mins is because he isnt doing enough for his coach expectations so gets hauled off or brought on as a sub. Super Sub players typically look good per 90. All 4 games he scored in the league he was either coming off the bench or taken off at 70 mins. The eye test alone should tell you he is not one of the top wingers in the league but the stats will also if you are being honest with yourself.
Average is 50%. Nothing I showed was below 50%
And everything you showed was compared to wingers from the “whole” league and then you claim he’s a “top” PL winger. Compare his stats to the top performers and he’s nowhere near them.Average is 50%. Nothing I showed was below 50%
I never said he was lazy. I said I’ve been unimpressed.
Average is 50%. Nothing I showed was below 50%
If you're in the 50 percentiles, then you can be accurately be broadly described as average in that aspect of the game. As in average compared to every single wide player in the PL who's played the minimum number of games required for inclusion in the stat. Which again means that your results, in that particular category, are not something that makes a positive contribution to a top team.
Again, no one has top percentiles across the board, and being a top player doesn't mean you're contributing to everything. But a 58 percentile stat does not support an argument a player is doing well with something.
FBREF
I'm not claiming he's a top wide player. I'm suggesting that he's an above average PL one with room for improvement. The stats definitely back that up
I think stats per 90 are way way more accurate than per appearance.
18 x 15minute cameos equals 3 x 90 minute games. If you don't score it can read as no goals in 18 appearances. Per minute stats are far more accurate.
He's not in the 50 percentiles in most of the stats I put up. You're misrepresenting the stats.
I'm definitely leaning towards selling him too. He's on huge wages, we need to free up funds and we have Rahford, Garnacho, Antony, Pellistri, Amad and Martial who can play on the wings.
He's not a bad player at all, but the problem is the fee and the wages, people were expecting a generational talent. like a Bellingham or a Foden and he hasn't been near that level at all.
The early promise isn't being fulfilled, don't think he's kicked a ball for England since the euros. It's a career that's stalled and is in danger of heading to Lingered levels.
The early promise isn't being fulfilled, don't think he's kicked a ball for England since the euros. It's a career that's stalled and is in danger of heading to Lingered levels.
Try re-reading and thinking before posting.
No he's correct. You've discussed him being in the '50s' in those percentiles, but while he is in the 50s for two (assists and Xassists), he's in the 70s, 80s and 90s for 6 other stats. So he's right, you've misrepresented the stats he's offered.
Are these stats PL only or do they include his time in Germany?
This season in the PL. I know ..... he's not doing as bad as people make out.
It feels like the difference between Sancho and Antony is best described with the word complacency. A lack of urgency. Sancho was always the biggest talent, but Antony will be better. It is a difference we see quite alot between European and South American-footballers in my opinion.
I think it was that word Beckham used to describe O’Kane in his books. According to Beckham the best player in the 92 youth team, but lacked the mentality. (Turned out later that he had autism.)
I think it was that word Beckham used to describe O’Kane in his books. According to Beckham the best player in the 92 youth team, but lacked the mentality. (Turned out later that he had autism.)
He has been very disappointing. Literally don’t care if his stats are better than Alex Iwobi or Ben Gordon, he plays in a better team than most other wingers and has done next to nothing all season. He’s definitely nowhere near the level you’d expect from a Man Utd winger.
He has though, these stats don't really tell much apart from that United are better than most other PL teams. It would be fairer to compare his stats to other wingers in the top 4, including those at United, to get a true reflection of how he's been.
Forgetting the stats for a second, he doesn't pass the eye test for me. Whether its a confidence thing or an ability thing, I don't know, but I'd much rather see Garnacho, Rashford or Antony on the wings than Sancho.
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OK, complete and boring waste of everyone's time though this is; I have not, anywhere, claimed or implied that all of his stats, or most of his stats, are in the 50 percentiles. I have on the contrary specifically pointed out that TWO of the stats he quotes are in the 50 percentiles, and made the point that 50 percentile stats do not support a claim that this is a good player in the aspects of the game those stats pertain to. Since he nevertheless included them as support for his argument that Sanchos stats are good, I pointed out that he may not have an accurate idea of what percentiles can be regarded as good and which cannot.
True in principle, and my gut feeling is the same as yours regarding the eye test, but actually his stats does look a good deal better than I'd have expected in quite a lot of important offensive categories. So much so that they go some way towards making me at least question my gut feeling, season regarded as a whole.
Not the last couple of performances though.
Yeah I agree, I'm surprised by those stats also but like I said, I'd question whether or not a lot of those are a side effect of playing for a team that creates a lot of chances on the whole and play with the ball in the opposition half a lot. He's only got 2 more goals than Dan James this season and they're both on 2 assists each...
Intuitively I don't think most of those can be ascribed simply to playing for a top team. (Could be looked into, if I'd had the time, which sadly I don't)
If there was a market for him at 40-50m I'd be in favour of selling. He's clearly talented, but equally clearly not mentally up to the challenge here. Garnacho, Amad and even Pellistri have looked worthy of a squad role and we could do with the funds.
Shame as I think he'll do well at a club with less scrutiny and competition. Would there be anywhere out there willing to pay for him at the moment do we think?
Shame as I think he'll do well at a club with less scrutiny and competition. Would there be anywhere out there willing to pay for him at the moment do we think?
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