[Stacks]

FBREF

I'm not claiming he's a top wide player. I'm suggesting that he's an above average PL one with room for improvement. The stats definitely back that up

I think stats per 90 are way way more accurate than per appearance.

18 x 15minute cameos equals 3 x 90 minute games. If you don't score it can read as no goals in 18 appearances. Per minute stats are far more accurate.

I disagree as in many cases per 90 stats make super subs look like the GOAT!
If it was per full game completed then it would make sense but at present you can come off the bench/get subbed and if you did 1 or 2 positive things in the game you look like a beast in per 90. In the NBA they dont really judge based on the per 36 minute stat (although its there), they give awards based on ppg, apg, rpg etc as they expect the best players should be playing most appearances and for significant minutes. Sancho has played 1100 minutes of football in 18 premier league appearances which is 61 mins average so of course his per 90 will look insane. He's basically playing sub mins and sometimes subs can have those few actions that skew their data and make them look better than they are.

 

[Stacks]

He's not a bad player at all, but the problem is the fee and the wages, people were expecting a generational talent. like a Bellingham or a Foden and he hasn't been near that level at all.

The early promise isn't being fulfilled, don't think he's kicked a ball for England since the euros. It's a career that's stalled and is in danger of heading to Lingered levels.

Lingard wasn't a bad player

True in principle, and my gut feeling is the same as yours regarding the eye test, but actually his stats does look a good deal better than I'd have expected in quite a lot of important offensive categories. So much so that they go some way towards making me at least question my gut feeling, season regarded as a whole.

Not the last couple of performances though.

Yeah I agree, I'm surprised by those stats also but like I said, I'd question whether or not a lot of those are a side effect of playing for a team that creates a lot of chances on the whole and play with the ball in the opposition half a lot. He's only got 2 more goals than Dan James this season and they're both on 2 assists each...

These are per 90 stats for a player who is averaging 61 mins per appearance so they are going to be a bit misleading or skewed as his overall minutes are low

 

[Olecurls99]

OK, complete and boring waste of everyone's time though this is; I have not, anywhere, claimed or implied that all of his stats, or most of his stats, are in the 50 percentiles. I have on the contrary specifically pointed out that TWO of the stats he quotes are in the 50 percentiles, and made the point that 50 percentile stats do not support a claim that this is a good player in the aspects of the game those stats pertain to. Since he nevertheless included them as support for his argument that Sanchos stats are good, I pointed out that he may not have an accurate idea of what percentiles can be regarded as good and which cannot.

I displayed them to show a balanced picture, and as I said at the outset to show how he performed so far, in all aspects that people look to in a United winger.

That you decided to zone in on the worst 2 says something about you methinks.

 

[Peelhead]

I feel sorry for the lad, obviously it's his agent's job to get him the very best deal but it's a bit of a millstone round his neck.
I think the stats are also decisively vague! Good enough to show there's potential there, not enough to make you feel he's going to mature into a really dangerous footballer.

If we're in trouble and needing a goal in the last quarter hour, I'm not going to be as encouraged if he comes on than Antony. And to be honest while he needs us to support him and I hope we as fans and the club deliver on that, I don't want him to distract from the development of our other young players.

 

[JPRouve]

Let's be honest, he should be moved on but we will be unable to shift him because of his huge wages. He is an okay squad option but honestly someone like Amad or Pellestri should probably be vying to overtake him in the pecking order next season.

I'd go as far as saying he is our most disappointing signing ever. Pogba and Di Maria gave us more.

Pogba and Di Maria were our best players during their time at the club, we may have issues with both of them but they are in a different galaxy to Sancho. Sancho is in the Schneiderlin, Depay or to be kind Anderson realm.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Pogba and Di Maria were our best players during their time at the club, we may have issues with both of them but they are in a different galaxy to Sancho. Sancho is in the Schneiderlin, Depay or to be kind Anderson realm.

Eh, no.

Although I agree with the Sancho-Anderson comparison.

 

[Cassidy]

Pogba and Di Maria were our best players during their time at the club, we may have issues with both of them but they are in a different galaxy to Sancho. Sancho is in the Schneiderlin, Depay or to be kind Anderson realm.

Not sure about Di Maria, he started well and then dropped off in my opinion.
To be fair though the overall point is true, much better than Sancho

 

[JPRouve]

Eh, no.

Although I agree with the Sancho-Anderson comparison.

Pogba and Di Maria were for the most part the best players for us. Again you may want to pretend otherwise but until 2019 and his injuries plus Bruno even the caf had Pogba as our best perfomer based on MotM votes. And in 2014-2015 Di Maria was our best player with De Gea. His performances dropped after a while but he was still our best player.

 

[Olecurls99]

I disagree as in many cases per 90 stats make super subs look like the GOAT!
If it was per full game completed then it would make sense but at present you can come off the bench/get subbed and if you did 1 or 2 positive things in the game you look like a beast in per 90. In the NBA they dont really judge based on the per 36 minute stat (although its there), they give awards based on ppg, apg, rpg etc as they expect the best players should be playing most appearances and for significant minutes. Sancho has played 1100 minutes of football in 18 premier league appearances which is 61 mins average so of course his per 90 will look insane. He's basically playing sub mins and sometimes subs can have those few actions that skew their data and make them look better than they are.

Agree to disagree.

I wouldn't call him a super sub

Judging a player's stats by appearances is like buying your carrots by the unit rather than by the weight.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I disagree as in many cases per 90 stats make super subs look like the GOAT!
If it was per full game completed then it would make sense but at present you can come off the bench/get subbed and if you did 1 or 2 positive things in the game you look like a beast in per 90. In the NBA they dont really judge based on the per 36 minute stat (although its there), they give awards based on ppg, apg, rpg etc as they expect the best players should be playing most appearances and for significant minutes. Sancho has played 1100 minutes of football in 18 premier league appearances which is 61 mins average so of course his per 90 will look insane. He's basically playing sub mins and sometimes subs can have those few actions that skew their data and make them look better than they are.

He isn’t though. He’s been much more likely to start games than come on off the bench. He tends to get subbed off before the end of the game, which is why he’s averaging 61 minutes per appearance. He’s not even close to being an Ole style super sub, who can pad his stats against tired defenders in the last 15-20 minutes of the game. If anything, he’s the opposite.

 

[Olecurls99]

He isn’t though. He’s been much more likely to start games than come on off the bench. He tends to get subbed off before the end of the game, which is why he’s averaging 61 minutes per appearance. He’s not even close to being an Ole style super sub, who can pad his stats against tired defenders in the last 15-20 minutes of the game. If anything, he’s the opposite.

Good point. What say you Stacks?

 

[justsomebloke]

I displayed them to show a balanced picture, and as I said at the outset to show how he performed so far, in all aspects that people look to in a United winger.

That you decided to zone in on the worst 2 says something about you methinks.

Okay mate. There's not much point in trying to explain a point one more time to someone who makes no attempt to listen. If you think I was trying to zone in on the negatives, see my above post about the overall impression the fbref report gives.

"balanced". Right. Anyone can check out the report on fbref and see how well that holds up.

 

[justsomebloke]

He isn’t though. He’s been much more likely to start games than come on off the bench. He tends to get subbed off before the end of the game, which is why he’s averaging 61 minutes per appearance. He’s not even close to being an Ole style super sub, who can pad his stats against tired defenders in the last 15-20 minutes of the game. If anything, he’s the opposite.

I don't think that's really a viable objection in this case - he has played far too much for that. That's the sort of point you could make to someone whose gametime has been a bunchof 10-15 minute cameos.

 

[Olecurls99]

I don't think that's really a viable objection in this case - he has played far too much for that. That's the sort of point you could make to someone whose gametime has been a bunchof 10-15 minute cameos.

Talk about not listening

 

[Olecurls99]

I've seen loads of 'he offers nothing' 'he can't beat his man' on this thread.

The stats simply don't back that up

You would want a United winger to be in the 80-90 percentiles across the board, and Sancho hasn't been good enough so far, both in stats and eye test but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.

 

[pacifictheme]

I've seen loads of 'he offers nothing' 'he can't beat his man' on this thread.

The stats simply don't back that up

You would want a United winger to be in the 80-90 percentiles across the board, and Sancho hasn't been good enough so far, both in stats and eye test but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.

I think this is a pretty fair reflection. A few of our creative players are suffering from the fact that we are absolutely horrible at scoring goals. If we had a proper striker playing through the middle who was clinical I think his stats would look a lot better.

Happy to persevere with him based on what I have seen so far.

 

[NoPace]

His and Antony's assists stats are so low that it's tempting to think it's partly a result of us not having a quality #9 to get into good positions to get on the end of crosses and through balls and cutbacks.

I do think there's a case for selling him to raise some money for a 2nd #9 and just banking on Rashford staying healthy and Garnacho developing at LW, but my guess is he'll stay since if he, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and McTominay leave we're getting close to in trouble for homegrown players. So my guess is he'll be given a chance to click with a #9 and Rashford will be the backup #9, creating enough opportunity on the left for Garnacho and Sancho to get lots of games. If Martial, the #9, Rashford and Garnacho all stay healthy, then maybe Sancho moves in January next year.

 

[MoskvaRed]

We are near the end of his second season at United. Even if you allow that last season was an all-round car crash, Sancho has been very underwhelming so for an 80m signing. Barring some massive uplift in output and performance over the remainder of the season, I would try to get rid this summer (even if we subsidise the wages).

 

[Olecurls99]

We are near the end of his second season at United. Even if you allow that last season was an all-round car crash, Sancho has been very underwhelming so for an 80m signing. Barring some massive uplift in output and performance over the remainder of the season, I would try to get rid this summer (even if we subsidise the wages).

Goals: He's better than 75% of the wide attackers in the league
Assists: He's better than 54%
Expected assists: 58%
Shot Creating Actions: 86%
Take ons: 71%
Progressive passes, carries and passes received: 70%
Pass completion: 95%
Passes attempted(Hideability): 75%

It wouldn't have to be that big a jump.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Goals: He's better than 75% of the wide attackers in the league
Assists: He's better than 54%
Expected assists: 58%
Shot Creating Actions: 86%
Take ons: 71%
Progressive passes, carries and passes received: 70%
Pass completion: 95%
Passes attempted(Hideability): 75%

It wouldn't have to be that big a jump.

He fails the eye test. Anyway, he’s a senior (ish) player at Manchester United, the third best team in the league, and so him being in the top half (or even top quartile) for stats is not a compelling argument. As for 95% pass completion, that reminds me more of Cleverley than de Bruyne.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

Pogba and Di Maria were our best players during their time at the club, we may have issues with both of them but they are in a different galaxy to Sancho. Sancho is in the Schneiderlin, Depay or to be kind Anderson realm.

Not sure calling him fat is kind

 

[Erics_Collar]

The fraud starts again.

 

[Olecurls99]

He fails the eye test. Anyway, he’s a senior (ish) player at Manchester United, the third best team in the league, and so him being in the top half (or even top quartile) for stats is not a compelling argument. As for 95% pass completion, that reminds me more of Cleverley than de Bruyne.

Just saying some of those stats aren't miles off where they need to be.

 

[Stacks]

Good point. What say you Stacks?

Goals: He's better than 75% of the wide attackers in the league
Assists: He's better than 54%
Expected assists: 58%
Shot Creating Actions: 86%
Take ons: 71%
Progressive passes, carries and passes received: 70%
Pass completion: 95%
Passes attempted(Hideability): 75%

It wouldn't have to be that big a jump.

same as before. His per 90 stats are deceiving since he plays similar minutes as a sub player. He's literally played 1200 minutes so he may have completed barely 7 dribbles this season and puts him in the top percentile per 90

 

[We need an rvn]

You know what, my dream when I was 8-13 was to be a pro footballer and I was so lucky to live in Holland as a very young teen between 88-92 and seeing van basten, gullit etc.

100% there was pressure on kids to make it, fight for your place, tv interviews etc. that should be normal for anyone trying to make it as a pro.

But I’d 100% hate to be a young player trying to make it as a pro in this modern era. you got insta, twitter erc, not to mention sites like red caf for united fans and whatever they are for other clubs.

As a young player, I’d be all over these websites seeing if my name was in the news .

imagine if I were sancho and checked out some of the things being said about himself by strangers who know feck all about the situation and the pressure that comes with his price tag.

He never asked to be signed for 80m, not the money we offered.
Give the lad a break and blame the recruiting process and people, not hom

 

[fergiewherearethou]

You know what, my dream when I was 8-13 was to be a pro footballer and I was so lucky to live in Holland as a very young teen between 88-92 and seeing van basten, gullit etc.

100% there was pressure on kids to make it, fight for your place, tv interviews etc. that should be normal for anyone trying to make it as a pro.

But I’d 100% hate to be a young player trying to make it as a pro in this modern era. you got insta, twitter erc, not to mention sites like red caf for united fans and whatever they are for other clubs.

As a young player, I’d be all over these websites seeing if my name was in the news .

imagine if I were sancho and checked out some of the things being said about himself by strangers who know feck all about the situation and the pressure that comes with his price tag.

He never asked to be signed for 80m, not the money we offered.
Give the lad a break and blame the recruiting process and people, not hom

Do you think a millionaire wonderkid nowadays has the humility or curiosity to read on forums what fans say about him?

 

[Stacks]

I've seen loads of 'he offers nothing' 'he can't beat his man' on this thread.

The stats simply don't back that up

You would want a United winger to be in the 80-90 percentiles across the board, and Sancho hasn't been good enough so far, both in stats and eye test but he's nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.

These are the real stats as it doesn't just focus on 1200 mins of football and covers all comps. It is still small sample size. He is in the 80s-90s for two things.
https://fbref.com/en/players/dbf053da/Jadon-Sancho

 

[crossy1686]

The fraud starts again.

He cost enough, he has to start performing otherwise there’s a solid case to move him on in the summer. Not playing him just brings his value down and makes him harder to shift.

 

[crossy1686]

These are the real stats as it doesn't just focus on 1200 mins of football and covers all comps. It is still small sample size. He is in the 80s-90s for two things.
https://fbref.com/en/players/dbf053da/Jadon-Sancho

The only stats that matter are 5 goals and 2 assists across all comps this season.

Dan James has 3 goals and 2 assists across all comps…

 

[Peelhead]

Good point. What say you Stacks?

It is a good point and it's a big part of the conundrum with him. I don't understand how he's flagging two thirds of the way into a game. We certainly didn't buy a 66% player and there's going to be games where he's going to be needed for 120 minutes.

 

[Bwuk]

Do you think a millionaire wonderkid nowadays has the humility or curiosity to read on forums what fans say about him?

100% they do.

 

[Posh Red]

Do you think a millionaire wonderkid nowadays has the humility or curiosity to read on forums what fans say about him?

Yes. Other players have already confirmed this. Why do we assume he’s soo arrogant anyway?

 

[crossy1686]

Yes. Other players have already confirmed this. Why do we assume he’s soo arrogant anyway?

I think there’s actually a tonne of evidence to suggest his attitude isn’t the best from just his time at dortmund alone

 

[Erics_Collar]

Get rid of this fat cnut

 

[#07]

£70m+...

...I just can't believe it.

 

[Sylar]

I don't mind if things don't work out when you're trying to attack

But not tracking back and then ducking and turning your back on a shot by an opponent is ridiculous and unforgivable

 

[Based Adnan]

No heart or fight in this guy, never a United player

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I hate everything about him. Can't wait until he fecks off.

 

[Nero]

Physically weak, mentally fragile.

 

[Mailo]

Mkhitaryan Mk 2