Do you really think that despite the game constantly evolving there are suddenly only shit defenders? There has to be a 100% logical explanation for why you have that impression be it that CBs are more exposed these days because their teams defend higher and the players before them defend more aggressively, be it that attackers have become more athletic/agile or simply that we remember the greats in the form of one big highlight reel which we unfairly compare to the daily grind of the current generation.
John Stones | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
true indeed.
He isn't one of the standout young CB's around? Tell me which young one is better in the PL please. In fact, outside of Laporte tell me which one is better in the age group 18-22 all together.
And this isn't just based on his form for us, it is also based on his Villareal showings, which I was harping on about long before he signed for us.
Umtiti is still 22 until November 14th
My question is why reduce to 22 years old ?
I've seen that age group been used earlier.Umtiti is still 22 until November 14th
My question is why reduce to 22 years old ?
Varane
Bailly
Umtiti
Marquinhos
is probably the four standout talents in that age group. In the slightly older age group you got Koulibaly and Manolas, but they are 25 and more are expected of them then.
Bailly's level is even more impressive when you consider how little professional football he has had. He has played a whooping 84 professional matches in his career. Laporte has played 167, Marquinhos has played 162 and the Titty has played 176.
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Why is not Marquinhos in this list?
He really needs to improve the defending part to become a great defender. It's all well and good being comfortable on the ball, but a defender's first job should be to defend. Same with Bravo too really.
And for players that are good on the ball, they have a knack of giving the ball away in stupid, dangerous areas.
And for players that are good on the ball, they have a knack of giving the ball away in stupid, dangerous areas.
Because I forgot about him.
dont think CB's are more exposed now at all, most teams play with a DM now, for years united played a 4-4-2 with keane and scholes, neither i would say were holding players and uniteds CB's never looked as poor at defending as the current crop, also most teams defend more as a unit now so cant get your argument at all
I feel he has been ace for City and will only get better.
Gimenez
He's crap at defending, he always was. But he should work fine in Pep's system most of the time, as they dominate most of the games and their defense is rarely under pressure.
Gimenez? and Lucas Hernandez also deserves a shout?
Ok, I forget a lot of people.
Laporte as well.
Yesterday taught us nothing about John Stones that we didn't already know. Or that City didn't already know when they bid £50m. Or that Everton didn't already know when they struggled to impart any kind of positional sense on him.
All the potential is there, he may need longer than others to mature, that's not unnatural. The fee will hang over him however. Mainly because you can name half a dozen or more centre halves, his age, who are better and would've been cheaper to acquire.
Also, he comes across as cocksure, both on the pitch and in interviews. I'm all for confidence, but he has the air of a guy who has let the hype around him, go straight to his head.
All the potential is there, he may need longer than others to mature, that's not unnatural. The fee will hang over him however. Mainly because you can name half a dozen or more centre halves, his age, who are better and would've been cheaper to acquire.
Also, he comes across as cocksure, both on the pitch and in interviews. I'm all for confidence, but he has the air of a guy who has let the hype around him, go straight to his head.
Sule, Tah, Christensen?
I feel, and have always felt that he's a massive mixed bag and you really don't know what you're going to get from John Stones from one moment to the next.
Those who say "he can't defend" are sometimes so wide of the mark, but at the same time, right. He has moments of very good defending that can be followed by the worst piece of defending you're ever likely to see.
Those who say "his positioning is woeful" are often on the money, but that's an easier thing to iron out over time.
As for his on the ball play, he's likely to commit one glaring error on the ball per game, this is based on the last full year watching him.
Yet in general I agree with you, he's had a decent start at City, he'll have a lot of very good games this season but I also think he'll make plenty more mistakes during the season.
Its can certainly be argued that the fee was too high as it looks a bit like it could go either way with Stones. I certainly don't see a guaranteed world beater.
So, how much have Shitty spent on their defense over the past few seasons, altogether? And it's still shite.
Agreed, kneejerk reactions/criticisms towards Stones et al. Errors & slips happen to every player & team, they are barely 3 months into their project. Plus, John Stones is 22 years of age
Depressingly, I think the same.
Stones is a good defender and has the potential to be one of the best. People sticking it to him now reminds me of the situation with Sterling last year. Both should go on to become top class players in time.
He's certainly not be "ace". He's been prone to several errors from what I've seen of highlights (not watched a single City game this season so can't judge on his 90min performance). I do agree I think he'll improve but it's difficult to say by how much as some players are simply error prone and cannot shake that out of their game.
I'm still yet to see him do something impressive from a defensive aspect. I think he's great on the ball. Very good dribbler, great passer with good range. But as a pure defender, he seems constantly out of position and making simple errors.
He's looked very good for City this season, as he's not got all that much all out defending to do. When he joins in with their possession football, he's been a great addition for them. When teams have got at them, he looks the weak link IMO
I'm not convinced his long term future lies at centre back.
He's looked very good for City this season, as he's not got all that much all out defending to do. When he joins in with their possession football, he's been a great addition for them. When teams have got at them, he looks the weak link IMO
I'm not convinced his long term future lies at centre back.
Stones reminds me alot of another City player in that respect, and we all know what happened to Joe Hart when he let the hype go to his head.
He's the white David Luiz. 
Dandruff?
What colour is David Luiz?He's the white David Luiz.
Thank god he isn't English then.
Expecting him to turn up at Peps City, a squad who have gotten by with only half a decent CB in recent years and to be Rio and Tony Adams rolled into one over night is ridiculous. He may as well be written off and filed away with Cahill and Jagielka now.
Give the lad an experienced and quality partner and some time he will be fine.
Give the lad an experienced and quality partner and some time he will be fine.
He was just as poor at Everton. Their defense has actually improved since they got Williams in.
Its not like many of this mistakes have suddenly popped up into his game.
The only difference now is that Roberto Martinez can't be used as a scapegoat for a player making basic defensive mistakes.
I'm struggling to see this potential some people are seeing? He's below average defensively and quite good on the ball. That's it! My word, how far the standards have fallen.
Orange?
Wasn't he so poor in defense that Martinez tried playing him in Midfield ? I think i saw him in DM once last season or i might be wrong
Two things, firstly do you think Pep is the ideal coach for Stones considering his defensive deficiencies? Stones that is.
Secondly the mentioning of his age, do you genuinely think that is a viable excuse considering we're in a boom period of extremely talented centre backs in John Stones age group?
Same here. I think he has done well.
I think that last season for Everton, his form dipped, but once he moved to MCFC, his form has improved.
First, I don't know. Pep's biggest impact is & has been in the midfield but has helped players all over the pitch. Piqué is a player that draws some comparisons to Stones and when Pep brought him back from United, he wasn't even playing regularly for you lot. So, you could easily argue there are similarities there in what Guardiola can do with a ball playing central defender who likes to go forward - Piqué even played many matches as a DM for Zaragoza. I can recall many doubted Geri's abilities as a defender. I liked Stones from the first time I saw him under Martinez' first season at Everton but then watched little after so I can't weigh in on what has happened to his development or career from there
For a central defender, yes, age has a big impact. The best central defenders in the modern game have rarely been young players - I suspect the conventional wisdom is that a central defender doesn't really mature into a top flight defender until their late 20s. Experience, especially playing the way a coach wants you to. Not too many people were raving about how great Boateng was prior to Pep's arrival but that changed. I am not sure about Stones because honestly I don't watch him enough to have a strong opinion one way or another. I go only by Pep, if he is convinced then there has to be something there - whether it works out ultimately no one knows but most would agree it's far too early to write his epitaph as a defender
He looks like a defensive liability, yes Messi will make most look poor but he was crap against Slovakia for England. How smalling didn't start ahead of him, I just don't know (and I'm not a smalling fan).
He could come good but imho, he's a huge gamble at £47m.
He could come good but imho, he's a huge gamble at £47m.