Quoting you I believe - I would point those laughs in your direction.
Keep wording it whatever way makes you happy.
35
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 17
- Clean sheets
- 9
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 1
Keep wording it whatever way makes you happy.
You said you counted a large handful of incidents which were mistakes, surely you can remember some?
Further you say I have 'bias' glasses on? Funny that, I have said many times that he hasn't played well this season, or that I wouldn't mind if he was sold in the summer, funny way of looking at things from someone who's biased isn't it?
I've given up on him. He's 27 already and it looks like his injury problems have really affected his confidence and form.
He's actually regressed. Ferguson used to describe United as a bus that doesn't stop for anybody. Van Gaal has not stopped for Cleverley, Anderson and Welbeck so I wouldn't be opposed to not stopping for Evans.
He's actually regressed. Ferguson used to describe United as a bus that doesn't stop for anybody. Van Gaal has not stopped for Cleverley, Anderson and Welbeck so I wouldn't be opposed to not stopping for Evans.
I agree, I have a feeling all three of our CBs are living in fear of getting injured again, it must be the most frustrating thing a player can go through.
Shambolic defender, shows no confidence what so ever. In turn i have none in him. Hes finished here surely. When u21 defenders have shown more composure, defensive capabilities and even adaptability than yourself when given the chance, you know the games up. Opposition attackers must rub there hands together when they read his name on the team sheet. He has shown in small intervals he can do a job, but overall no one can argue with the fact that he has a mistake in him every game. A club like ours deserves much better. His position is surely one most under threat.
De Gea in particular cannot be gaining anything from his inabilities, and looked extremely pissed with that ball over the top he made a feast over for diouf. Unforgivable in my view.
De Gea in particular cannot be gaining anything from his inabilities, and looked extremely pissed with that ball over the top he made a feast over for diouf. Unforgivable in my view.
Last edited:
1. The shocking defending with Diouf which lead to the chance, there was 3 instances in that section of play alone, the letting it bounce, the not dealing with it whilst it was in front of him in his possession, then getting bullied off the ball and mis-controlling.
2. When he attempted to pass the ball out after the Smalling hand ball and passed it straight to their player, it was an easy ball to deal with and he made a complete hash of it and played it to Dioufs feet for another shot in the box.
3. When Luke shaw cleared the ball at the back post after the ball was crossed in, he did very well, Evans reaction was anger towards Shaw for some bizarre reason, when he was actually covering for him - just a stupid reaction
4. Similar incident with De Gea which I cant actually remember the full extent of -just that I was disappointed with his reaction.
5. Summary point -Dilly dallying on the ball as he brings it up field and doesn't have a clue what to do with it. Poor decision making and passing leading to uncertainties throughout our play.
The majority of what you have said is positively in favour of Evans and giving him benefit of the doubt and looking at the whole situation from a blurred optimistic POV.
Now your back tracking because the jury is out, this whole season you have defended him and thats not debatable, you can spin it whatever way you like but the truth is you have continually argued his case with lots of members of this forum throughout this season. Unfortunately he is a player who is completely out of his depth and was carried for large parts of his early career and he has been exposed as a weak link who would do well to get in the Aston Villa team.
He's still got four months to turn it around. We know he's capable of far more, but he's definitely in trouble.
That is the point with Jonny that is worrying me. In the past he was the kid alongside a Vidic or Rio. Now he is the elder statesman and he is being found wanting and all his shortcomings are coming to the fore. He has always had a senior pro there to cover for him He is making mistakes and then berating his team mates when they get him out of trouble. That will not be going down well with them. Nobody wants to take the blame for other peoples cock ups.
I don't have much faith in Jonny turning this around. I'm all for giving time, but when the rest of the team has managed to grasp the essence of the new state of play and are moving in the right direction, he seems to be stuck in his mistakes.
It's the same thing with him for the past three games now - He struggles on the ball, takes too long to pass and constantly complains about lack of options. Jones who plays on the right side, has the exact same scenario, except he almost always manages to move play quickly from the back. It comes down having the guts to make mistakes. With Jonny, you get the sense he's afraid to make mistakes, so when he gets the ball it's one too many touches, followed by either a back pass, a hoof forward or a sideways pass. He rarely takes gumption in moving forward with the ball like Jones does. When he does do it, he looks good, but the hesitation is jarring and it interrupts the flow of play.
Not to forget defensive frailties. He used to be quite good in the air, but he's even shown weakness in that as well. Not just the Stoke game, but he's been bullied off the ball too many times for my liking.
It pains me to say that a United lad isn't good enough, but I'm sorry he just doesn't cut it in this system. Not in the starting eleven that is.
It's the same thing with him for the past three games now - He struggles on the ball, takes too long to pass and constantly complains about lack of options. Jones who plays on the right side, has the exact same scenario, except he almost always manages to move play quickly from the back. It comes down having the guts to make mistakes. With Jonny, you get the sense he's afraid to make mistakes, so when he gets the ball it's one too many touches, followed by either a back pass, a hoof forward or a sideways pass. He rarely takes gumption in moving forward with the ball like Jones does. When he does do it, he looks good, but the hesitation is jarring and it interrupts the flow of play.
Not to forget defensive frailties. He used to be quite good in the air, but he's even shown weakness in that as well. Not just the Stoke game, but he's been bullied off the ball too many times for my liking.
It pains me to say that a United lad isn't good enough, but I'm sorry he just doesn't cut it in this system. Not in the starting eleven that is.
He should regain his confidence, then he will again be one of the best CB in the league but I think we have not another 2 years time to wait so he is very likely to be on his way out in summer. I guess he could go somewhere like Everton or even Soton. We have too many center backs in the team and there is possibility we will buy one world class so we should make room for him or even for the youngsters who should go out on loan, Keane could finally feature in our A-team.. And Happy birthday Jonny.-)
I think all the injuries have hampered him greatly. He is years behind in his development and we might not, as you say have time to wait. He is not a Paddy McNair who can learn from his mistakes and has time on his side. Jonny is reaching the age where he should be reaching his peak and he is nowhere near being there.
These are both the same incident, he didn't shout at Shaw at all, in the replay it was clearly aimed at De Gea, for not coming out and collecting a free ball which ended up in the Shaw clearance.
Give him a start in the cup and if he still fails to look anything but capable then his days are numbered I feel.
Well, from memory, he let the ball drop, giving Diouf a golden chance.Is there though? You can't really control who posts on Facebook, many of them might not even be United fans, on here however we are all supposed to be fans. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, he deserves criticism for some of his performances this season but this thread is far from that.
Ok then
Oh and still waiting for a reply to this in reference to the game on Sunday.
About five minutes later, he did the same thing. Luckily the ball bounced for him and he got away with it, but again, appalling defending.
He didn't deal with a cross into the box which Shaw then had to deal with. Then had the temerity to turn around and berate De Gea who has saved him on previous occasions this season, which I thought was rather cheeky, yet par for the course from Evans. Some, I believe, see this as "organising".
There was another incident which I think was during the passage of play where Smalling handled the ball, ball came to Evans and he hit some panicked half assed ball right back across our box. Again, these are just a few incidents, from my memory, which isn't the best. However, they all happened, there may well have been more.
<edit> Ah, I see @Fergies Formula got there before me.
1) Yep, terrible defending.
2) Not initially Evans mistake, he should have dealt with the deflection better though.
3) In his opinion De Gea should have come for it, Evans was not going to get the ball, any attempt to get it could have resulted in an own goal with Shaw there to cover it was the sensible option. Is a reaction a mistake now by the way?
4) ?
5) You could say that about any player.
Hardly a large handful of mistakes is it? Tell me, have you been on the Jones and Smalling threads giving them as much abuse?
Furter, how am I backtracking? I’ve defended him against those that have decided to re write history, I’ve defended him when he has played well, and I’ve defended him against posters who lay blame on him for errors that weren’t his fault. The over reaction on here is beyond foolish, some are waiting for the smallest of mistake to crucify him. If you think thats fair then you go for it.
See above.
For some reason this incident annoyed me more than any of the others, really poor defending.
2 - Does it matter whether he made an initial mistake or not? You asked for pointers as to when he made mistakes. That was one. It was absolutely shambolic. Whether it was the first mistake or not is irrelevant, the fact was, the ball came to him and rather than clear, he panicked and sent it straight back across the box.
1) Yep, terrible defending.
2) Not initially Evans mistake, he should have dealt with the deflection better though.
3) In his opinion De Gea should have come for it, Evans was not going to get the ball, any attempt to get it could have resulted in an own goal with Shaw there to cover it was the sensible option. Is a reaction a mistake now by the way?
4) ?
5) You could say that about any player.
Hardly a large handful of mistakes is it? Tell me, have you been on the Jones and Smalling threads giving them as much abuse?
Furter, how am I backtracking? I’ve defended him against those that have decided to re write history, I’ve defended him when he has played well, and I’ve defended him against posters who lay blame on him for errors that weren’t his fault. The over reaction on here is beyond foolish, some are waiting for the smallest of mistake to crucify him. If you think thats fair then you go for it.
3 -Any attempt would have resulted in an OG? It was just as dangerous a ball when Shaw took it, maybe even more so because of the flight, yet he took control and went for it. Evans would rather not do anything. This was a mistake on his part. De Gea regularly leaves balls like that and stays on his line. Evans should know that.
I already said he should have dealt with it better, but his error came from the deflection of what was a blatant handball.
Further, I said could have not would have, I assume you know the difference?
If you think it’s a mistake to let a player in a better position handle the danger then you must be the most critical of supporter, or of course you could be just looking for reasons to blame a player who is the latest scapegoat.
Yes, his error came from another appalling error. It was, however, still an error, was it not? And I believe you asked for instances of Evans errors? Maybe I'm incorrect on that, but I'm too lazy to read back to be honest.
Yes, I absolutely think it was a mistake in how he failed to deal with that ball. In my opinion a top class defender deals with it. Perhaps I am the most critical of supporters, is that a bad thing? That I want top class defenders, and I criticise those who aren't?
I disagree that he's a scapegoat. I don't blame him for our recent results, I believe scapegoats are players wrongly blamed for causing bad results. In my opinion, Evans simply isn't good enough. He makes multiple mistakes in a game, gets outmuscled by anyone with a bit of strength. Not scapegoating. Not blaming him for results.
Whether his mistakes come after other player's mistakes doesn't matter. They're still mistakes. He's not good enough in my opinion. Not that my opinion matters a whole pile, but sure, we'll see what Louis thinks in the long run.
Why is this even a discussion? The mistakes just listed here from the last game would be unforgivable in my u9 team, never mind at the pinnacle of the english game.
His age works against him unfortunately and a good gague to measure him would be to ask would he get in any of the top 6 teams in the prem? Granted would any of our cbs? But regardless of that, he looks the most isolated and less at terms with our new philosophy than any of our current cbs.
I feel other than the northern irish contingency in here, most know he is not a top class defender and also know hes never showed potential to be even close to one. After buying falcao, di maria etc surely only the top class bracket is what we are aiming for even at the back. Clearly a squad rotation player from the get go, and now he is showing his most consistency with atleast "a howler a game" surely he can not even be considered that any more.
I may be mistaken, but im sure after a Evans clanger vs stoke the camera cut to LVG and he looked like he was blowing steam. His days are clearly numbered.
His age works against him unfortunately and a good gague to measure him would be to ask would he get in any of the top 6 teams in the prem? Granted would any of our cbs? But regardless of that, he looks the most isolated and less at terms with our new philosophy than any of our current cbs.
I feel other than the northern irish contingency in here, most know he is not a top class defender and also know hes never showed potential to be even close to one. After buying falcao, di maria etc surely only the top class bracket is what we are aiming for even at the back. Clearly a squad rotation player from the get go, and now he is showing his most consistency with atleast "a howler a game" surely he can not even be considered that any more.
I may be mistaken, but im sure after a Evans clanger vs stoke the camera cut to LVG and he looked like he was blowing steam. His days are clearly numbered.
I’ve already said he could have dealt with it better, I’m simply highlighting that there were other factors leading to it. However I asked for the LARGE handful of errors he made in the game, I’m still waiting.
In regards to the Evans, Shaw incident, if Evans stretches for it and it deflects into the net, who do you blame? I guarantee that everyone would say that he should have left it for Shaw who was in a better position, for you and others to blame him for that isn’t over critical it’s just plain daft. There is nothing wrong with being critical when it’s due, but when you are looking to pass the blame onto someone when there is no blame there, then that’s when it becomes scapegoating.
A scapegoat is not someone who is blamed for poor results, it is someone who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.
This is why I didnt want to engage with these because I knew you would challenge them with bias replies.
1) Yep, terrible defending.
2) Not initially Evans mistake, he should have dealt with the deflection better though.
3) In his opinion De Gea should have come for it, Evans was not going to get the ball, any attempt to get it could have resulted in an own goal with Shaw there to cover it was the sensible option. Is a reaction a mistake now by the way?
4) ?
5) You could say that about any player.
Hardly a large handful of mistakes is it? Tell me, have you been on the Jones and Smalling threads giving them as much abuse?
Further, how am I backtracking? I’ve defended him against those that have decided to re write history, I’ve defended him when he has played well, and I’ve defended him against posters who lay blame on him for errors that weren’t his fault. The over reaction on here is beyond foolish, some are waiting for the smallest of mistake to crucify him. If you think thats fair then you go for it.
1) This was Sunday league stuff and embarrassing to watch, the kind of defending that has become synonymous with Evans.
2) He made a mistake doesn't matter if it wasnt his mistake, Smalling was clumsy with his hands being out wide, Evans on the other hand had a long time to play the pass and still managed to hand another chance to diouf on a plate.
3) De Gea could never have come out to get that, he did the right thing by letting the defence take it, he is on top form right now and I trust his judgement over yours. Evans did nothing and let Shaw clear a difficult ball. And yes his reaction and shouting at others is a mistake - it shows his character and gives other team players fuel to develop a negative perception of him, distancing himself from an error is a mistake.
5) No I couldn't because it would be valid about others. Smallings passing has been progressive and positive and is getting a lot better, he is playing with assurance and this breeds confidence. Jones although a bit shaky at times is solid enough and strong in his mind and the tackle. Evans is the fragile one which creates knock on effects throughout the team.
Dirkeys replies are spot on.
He is doing these kind of small mistakes regularly throughout and lucky for him hasnt been punished for them.
No I havent because Smalling has my support as does Jones, who still has a lot to prove. Evans is supposed to be leading the way for these guys, but he has become a liability who is getting outshone by players a lot younger than him.
You have had a handful your not getting anymore, I gave you 5 of which you agreed with 1.
If these kind of mistakes are happening in every game and causing a negative impact on the team he needs to be removed.
100% accurate.
We need to aim a lot higher as currently our defence is not hitting the standards we set for so long.
You still didn’t answer my questions, where is the large handful of mistakes he made in the game.
This is getting fecking boring now, but one thing has become obvious, it’s a clear case of scapegoating if ever there was one. To say it’s become synonymous with Evans shows the lack of knowledge you have about his United career. Yes he made a mistake after Smallings handball, my point is there are reasons leading to the error, are you saying that shouldn’t come into it?
How do you know De Gea couldn’t have come out for it? It was just outside the six yard box? Was it too high for him? Shaw was in the better position to deal with it, it was dealt with, and that’s not a mistake its good defending.
It wasn’t that long ago that people were slating him for not taking leadership, now hes taking it, guess what?
Bolded part says it all.
You think thats a LARGE handful
Believe whatever you need to mate if that's what makes you feel better.
It is not scapegoating because as a team we are doing reasonably well in comparison to last season, the players are responding to an acceptable level, but Evans is not. This is purely identifying the player who is struggling and performing at a low level who has become a liability to his team mates.
That is enough mistakes for any manchester united defender in a game. I gave you 5, a mistake for every finger! I really dont need to list anymore - and I provided that list without re-watching the game.
Please provide me with evidence of him taking leadership? Or is this just another one of your fictional statements. Leadership is not passing the buck and shouting at others for your own mistakes which he has always done.
The ball was whipped in too low and too close to our defenders for De Gea to gamble and come and collect, like I said I would trust the talent and judgement of De Gea who is in peak form over yours/ Evans.
Like I said its your posts that are being mocked.
I cant change your inability to see that.
I notice this a lot with Evans. He's always blaming someone else for his mistakes. Very irritating.
For the last time Scapegoating has little to do with the team, if you don’t understand what it means how you can say he isn’t being made a scapegoat?
In regards to the LARGE handful of mistakes Evans made against Stoke, You didn’t give me 5 examaples , you gave me 2, in a game which his defensive partners made the same if not more mistakes, where the forward players only managed two shots on target.
You accusing me of making up fictional statements
He has started to show leadership by organising the defence, he has also become a lot more vocal, the same can be said for Smalling, something which many on here wanted him to be. He lacks natural leadership and it’s going to be a learning curve for him, if he’s given the time of course.
The ball was whipped in to low? It went over the Stoke player and Evans head, how was it to low? Finally are you some sort of Child, 'My De Gea is better than your Evans' really?
No idea why you bring Smalling into this, he was good again. Jones probably did more daft things than Evans, but none as bad as the Mame car crash.
Not this again. Evans is almost two years older. Smalling turned 25 a little over a month ago (November 22). Evans turned 27 today (Jan 3). Clarification.
Not passing the blame onto someone it was not due. Quite simply, Evans should have cleared, or at least attempted to clear, that ball, which passed him at head height. But sure, if you think it was easier for Shaw, as it dipped in at him,then fair enough. Nice that our young left back in his first season has the balls to take responsibility though. Thankfully one of them was. Evans would rather do nothing and then abuse our world class goalkeeper.
Because Evans is the most experienced CB. LVG is giving him his chance to prove himself and he's failing. LVG won't hesitate to cut him off when he's seen enough
He needs to do the following(or at least three) for a complete resurgence:
-shave his head
-Grow a beard
-wear a smaller kit(ask Valencia for tips)
-Get a full sleeve tattoo
This will make him look tougher and he'll be able to defend better. His new intimidating look will cause an infinitesimal amount of hesitation in attackers which will in turn help him by giving him more time to defend--just a tiny bit, but that's all he needs. All good defenders that don't look like freaks by birth(Per etc) develop a quirky look(Puyol's hair, Stam's head etc). Maldini is an exception but he looked good so that worked for him.
Look at Skrtle, if he looked like Evans he'd be playing for Plymouth Argyle Sweater FC.
-shave his head
-Grow a beard
-wear a smaller kit(ask Valencia for tips)
-Get a full sleeve tattoo
This will make him look tougher and he'll be able to defend better. His new intimidating look will cause an infinitesimal amount of hesitation in attackers which will in turn help him by giving him more time to defend--just a tiny bit, but that's all he needs. All good defenders that don't look like freaks by birth(Per etc) develop a quirky look(Puyol's hair, Stam's head etc). Maldini is an exception but he looked good so that worked for him.
Look at Skrtle, if he looked like Evans he'd be playing for Plymouth Argyle Sweater FC.
He virtually is.Everest Red said:
Organising the defence? Ah yes. A world where shouting at teammates after ones own mistakes is considered organising. Yep. We were lucky they managed so few shots on target. Imagine he defended like that in the Champions League, instead of against diouf?For the last time Scapegoating has little to do with the team, if you don’t understand what it means how you can say he isn’t being made a scapegoat?
In regards to the LARGE handful of mistakes Evans made against Stoke, You didn’t give me 5 examaples , you gave me 2, in a game which his defensive partners made the same if not more mistakes, where the forward players only managed two shots on target.
You accusing me of making up fictional statements
He has started to show leadership by organising the defence, he has also become a lot more vocal, the same can be said for Smalling, something which many on here wanted him to be. He lacks natural leadership and it’s going to be a learning curve for him, if he’s given the time of course.
The ball was whipped in to low? It went over the Stoke player and Evans head, how was it to low? Finally are you some sort of Child, 'My De Gea is better than your Evans' really?
Do you think Evans is a good enough player to regularly start for this club?
Why did you quote a post of mine mate from yesterday posted before you and i had this conversation on this topic in this thread?