He wasn’t in the CL because LVG didn’t qualify! FFS.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Voted option 2.
Really don’t think we have any long term plan or strategy.
Really don’t think we have any long term plan or strategy.
I never said we should have won the CL last season, did I? For the record, I don't think we have a chance in it for the next couple of years unless we suddenly improve our overall play and show a consistent high level of performances.
Of course we might fluke it as it has been done before, but you need a lot of luck for that as well.
I’m not sure any of the poll options reflect my thoughts. I’m somewhere between 1 and 2.
I meant the Pogba bit mate. Nobody knows what's happening with Mourinho and Pogba or if they've even fallen out. It's all guess work.
Where is the bring back LVG option?
We are really going to struggle to finish in top four and if we don’t make it then you have to question if it is worth persisting with Mourinho.
He isn’t a long term manager and even if we spend a fortune in the summer I can’t see it making much difference as the tactics are out dated and too negative.
We still seem to be buying players with no idea how to use them and there is no coherent strategy on or off the pitch and until the club do something about that I can see us continuing to struggle to be a regular top four side let alone title challengers.
He isn’t a long term manager and even if we spend a fortune in the summer I can’t see it making much difference as the tactics are out dated and too negative.
We still seem to be buying players with no idea how to use them and there is no coherent strategy on or off the pitch and until the club do something about that I can see us continuing to struggle to be a regular top four side let alone title challengers.
Option 1.
The football hasnt been great but we are still rebuilding and happy to give him another season here than hitting the reset button again and getting in someone else in yet again.
The football hasnt been great but we are still rebuilding and happy to give him another season here than hitting the reset button again and getting in someone else in yet again.
Even if we miss out on top 4 yet again? I'd be extremely dissatisfied with 3rd or 4th at this point due to our position throughout the whole season so far, but would still be content with Mourinho for next year. However, finishing outside of the top 4 would be ludicrous and I'm sure even Jose would agree.
I don't see how we don't make top 4 and he can justify his job, given the rest of the failings.
Obviously he is liked by thr club and the club likes his agent (potentially signing many of his players). This is the best way to protect Jose in case in any case.
Living off past reputation, football's moved on.
Second one. Happened to Van Gaal, so there shouldn't be any exceptions for Jose.
I was hoping when Jose came in we'd see a game plan. That we'd have a set philosophy, but a lot of the times it's hard to tell what we're aiming to achieve in games and how we're trying to play.
Does he need more time to do that? Maybe. That said, other managers have been able to come in and put their stamp on teams in 1/2 years. Klopp, Pochettino, Pep, to name a few.
We've spent quite a bit of money on players. Some players have been a success, but most, including the ones we bought under Van Gaal and Moyes have been unsuccessful.
We need to get back to a way of playing. Despite being boring most of the time, we saw that with Van Gaal. It was all about slow build and possession. Under Mourinho, I don't see that yet.
I was hoping when Jose came in we'd see a game plan. That we'd have a set philosophy, but a lot of the times it's hard to tell what we're aiming to achieve in games and how we're trying to play.
Does he need more time to do that? Maybe. That said, other managers have been able to come in and put their stamp on teams in 1/2 years. Klopp, Pochettino, Pep, to name a few.
We've spent quite a bit of money on players. Some players have been a success, but most, including the ones we bought under Van Gaal and Moyes have been unsuccessful.
We need to get back to a way of playing. Despite being boring most of the time, we saw that with Van Gaal. It was all about slow build and possession. Under Mourinho, I don't see that yet.
Wow, so many want him sacked.
How about adding the following option, something like this: "Made improvements, but also got it wrong in other areas. But give him atleast one more season before pulling the trigger."
How about adding the following option, something like this: "Made improvements, but also got it wrong in other areas. But give him atleast one more season before pulling the trigger."
People don't have patience anymore.
I voted the second option, there is no excuse if we drop out of top 4.
The manager in question doesn't have the patience either, we're just ordinary folk.
For me, the job is hard to compare to other jobs in the league given the recent history. Liverpool and Spurs have a lot less pressure, both for the manager and the players. It's been repeated many times, but the context I view this in is that after Moyes, who took on a side that needed to be freshened up LVG took on a rebuilding job that he did terribly, complicating significantly the job for the next manager. There have been quite a few times this season where I've been frustrated with our lack of balance, fluidity and desire. You can put that all down to the manager, but the players aren't free from responsibility either. I think we are 3-4 players away from having a team Jose has total confidence in, whether we'll see that or not. I had hoped we'd be in a better form around this mark, but I still think Jose is a top manager and with time and financial backing he'll create an elite team. He's not beyond criticism though, but I think I and almost everyone else on the Caf would see flaws in every single manager we could conceivably appoint.
while im not a Mourinho fan and never wanted him at the club, I agree with a lot of what your saying, pushing the reset button again doesn't seem like a smart move after we have just given this manager over 300 million to spend building the squad he wanted. We've also moved on from that promising young squad we had when LVG into a built to a 'Win Now' style squad. So despite the fact that most weeks the football has been pretty dire, seeing if the current manager can follow though and deliver seems like the logical way forward.
The issue i have is though is that we have had issues with nearly everyone of his signings, do we really hand him another 150+ million in the summer? when he has a patchy transfer record with us and reputation for leaving after 3 seasons. Plus i don't really get the rebuilding argument, as i don't see what he is building towards as so many of his signings don't seem to fit in with the way he wants to play.
I don't know that answer i see both sides of the argument.
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Are we turning into Wenger' Arsenal? every season we fail to come close to challenging for the title, we just shrug it off and put it down to rebuilding? the rebuilding should be done at this point for the most part. Jose has got the players he wanted, aside from perhaps one, but then we went ahead and bought Sanchez. No excuses.
Didn't want to make it one sided
I find this funny since many on here have been harping on about how being 2nd is nothing celebrate. Does it, therefore, really matter whether we finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th?
Of course it matters, especially if it means finishing behind Tottenham, Liverpool or even both. I can kind of understand finishing behind Chelsea as they are the current champions.
Yes i think it does, id argue we easily have the second best squad and team in the league and if our manager can't guide that group of players to 2nd then it logically shows he isn't getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal.
Just two seasons so far mate with Mourinho in charge. Each time new manager comes in, new rebuilding starts... in our club case anyway (our 3 managers after SAF each play different type of football). We haven't come close to Wenger's Arsenal level at all who have been about 7-10 seasons or whatever, winning probably a cup every 3 seasons, never the league anymore.
Didn't want to make it one sided
Add it! For ente-... something purpose.We still need to upgrade our defenders.
Seems like the goals posts have changed.
2
Nothing has changed, you are just persisting on feeling personally offended because people criticise the manager. Have it your way but you sound like a baby that doesn't get the candy it wants.
I'm not offended. I clearly remember that earlier in the season when posters claimed that we're second and that's a sign of progress, many replied shutting them down stating it's nothing to be proud of or that it's still a failure. Now, you're claiming that not finishing 2nd and ending up at 3rd or 4th is a failure.
Goal posts have changed. Well done.
So I suppose.. minimum requirement for Mourinho this season's EPL is...
Top 4! Either one of 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
Hmm, would everyone be happy Jose staying, if we win the CL yet ended on 5th? Or reach the final but lose, yet 5th?
Top 4! Either one of 2nd, 3rd or 4th.
Hmm, would everyone be happy Jose staying, if we win the CL yet ended on 5th? Or reach the final but lose, yet 5th?
not for me, at the start of the season, i said we should be finishing 2nd that remains my pint of view. Im not saying we should fire Jose if he doesn't get 2nd, but i'm saying finishing below second with this squad is under achieving.
To be honest most people on this forum, as well and fans and pundits of it were saying we should be challenging for the title, so now saying we should be getting top four is changing the goal posts, its lowering them significantly.
Not sure I follow your logic here. Did you expect people who claimed 2nd place would be a failure to be happy with 3rd or 4th? If you're not happy with 2nd, how is it 'moving the goalpost' to to not be happy with finishing below second either?
That’s probably a really good pointDidn't want to make it one sided
It all boils down to this. First season under Mourinho was good, actually better than good, yes we ended up outside a Top 4 position but we won 2 decent cups and booked ourselves a place in the CL, which should of been the minimum considering the money spent anyway, and all the while the football, whilst not significantly better, was a tad better than under LVG's borefest, signs of improvement definitely worth a second season.
Now this season, significantly more money spent bringing in the players Mourinho wants to make it his team, a decent start to the season, I don't think anyone could complain really, again, even if the football wasn't all the time terrific and entertaining, we were gaining results. But compare it to the latter half of the season now, we've almost tumbled off a cliff, the results and the football have got considerably worse, this is supposed to be Mourinho's infamous winning second season, but we're absolutely nowhere near the PL title and certainly nowhere near to winning the CL, people will say well City spent considerably more money ofcourse they are first, but right now we are sitting below a team that spent less than us and may yet slip further down the table under teams that have spent considerably less than us, like Spurs.
We've stalled, and there's no need for Moyes or LVG comparisons really, just compare it to last season, we've not really improved even with considerably more outlay, the football has gone to shit, we cower against big teams, we've slipped down into 3rd with a possibility that it may yet get worse and we slip out of the Top 4 and out of a CL position. Our attackers look bereft of ideas, our defending is nowhere near a peak Mourinho defense, they are a laughing stock sometimes and De Gea needs to bail the whole team out, we don't play as a team, I mean I could go on..
But what of Mourinho's signings? We've apparently been left such a shit squad that Mourinho needs to replace the whole lot, well, here's what's happened to his OWN signings so far..
Lukaku - Has a decent amount of goals, but beyond that nothing, we're hoofing it up to him even though that isn't his game, we barely use him correctly and, even though it's not entirely his fault, he has to feed on scraps cause we nullify our own attack the majority of the time.
Lindelof - Can barely make the bench these days, has started once or twice recently, I think he has potential but so far he's not kicked on and improved our defense at all, Mourinho agrees to the point he was still playing Smalling and Jones together until recently.
Ibrahimovic - Decent first season, absolutely pointless signing him onto a second season other than blind loyalty from Mourinho, a good presence in the dressing room? Probably, but we shouldn't be signing players just for that
Mkhitaryan - Coming off a sensational season with Dortmund, over 23 goals and over 20 assists I believe, comes to us and is basically shit the entire time, to the point Mourinho swaps him after a season and a half, absolutely wasted.
Bailly - Looked great when he was playing, has been injured so long I often forget we even have him.
Sanchez - Can't judge as it's way too early, we all know he's an absolutely quality top tier player, since getting here we've almost done our best to make him forget all that however, oh and as much as I love this signing, it looks more like an opportunistic signing rather than a signing of need, we all thought, finally, someone to go on the RW! Mourinho in all his genius though decides to shunt our best and most productive LW to the right in order to accommodate Sanchez, which, in my opinion, is just bad management, especially when we have such a gaping hole at RW.
Pogba - Looks like an infamous Mourinho falling out that he has a record of in nearly every club he's been at. We can all claim its media stirring things up, there's nothing in it etc, but the signs are all there, and McTominay is the bait in the middle which is unfair on the lad. He spent a ridiculous amount of money on him and has failed to get the best out of him on a consistent basis, say what you want about formations or setups or freeing Pogba up, but Mourinho bought him, he should know what Pogba is all about, what he can and cannot do, it seems to me like he's bought him figuring he could transform him into something Mourinho wants rather than just playing to his natural strengths
So, all in all, everyone, i feel, was happy enough to see Mourinho come in because despite the football he is a winner, and we will win things, and that first season was a step in the right direction. This next season, the football has got worse, we are nowhere near the PL or CL despite more spending and the signings haven't been terrific and he hasn't got the best of them, there's signs of some player unrest in Pogba, we could slip outside the Top 4, behind teams that have spent far less than us AND play much better football than us, entertaining football. So, if we do slip outside the Top 4, I genuinely ask the Mourinho fans, why In gods name should he be given another season with another 200million odd spend in the summer, in what world has he earned that, and I'm not talking about achievements he had well in the past.
Now this season, significantly more money spent bringing in the players Mourinho wants to make it his team, a decent start to the season, I don't think anyone could complain really, again, even if the football wasn't all the time terrific and entertaining, we were gaining results. But compare it to the latter half of the season now, we've almost tumbled off a cliff, the results and the football have got considerably worse, this is supposed to be Mourinho's infamous winning second season, but we're absolutely nowhere near the PL title and certainly nowhere near to winning the CL, people will say well City spent considerably more money ofcourse they are first, but right now we are sitting below a team that spent less than us and may yet slip further down the table under teams that have spent considerably less than us, like Spurs.
We've stalled, and there's no need for Moyes or LVG comparisons really, just compare it to last season, we've not really improved even with considerably more outlay, the football has gone to shit, we cower against big teams, we've slipped down into 3rd with a possibility that it may yet get worse and we slip out of the Top 4 and out of a CL position. Our attackers look bereft of ideas, our defending is nowhere near a peak Mourinho defense, they are a laughing stock sometimes and De Gea needs to bail the whole team out, we don't play as a team, I mean I could go on..
But what of Mourinho's signings? We've apparently been left such a shit squad that Mourinho needs to replace the whole lot, well, here's what's happened to his OWN signings so far..
Lukaku - Has a decent amount of goals, but beyond that nothing, we're hoofing it up to him even though that isn't his game, we barely use him correctly and, even though it's not entirely his fault, he has to feed on scraps cause we nullify our own attack the majority of the time.
Lindelof - Can barely make the bench these days, has started once or twice recently, I think he has potential but so far he's not kicked on and improved our defense at all, Mourinho agrees to the point he was still playing Smalling and Jones together until recently.
Ibrahimovic - Decent first season, absolutely pointless signing him onto a second season other than blind loyalty from Mourinho, a good presence in the dressing room? Probably, but we shouldn't be signing players just for that
Mkhitaryan - Coming off a sensational season with Dortmund, over 23 goals and over 20 assists I believe, comes to us and is basically shit the entire time, to the point Mourinho swaps him after a season and a half, absolutely wasted.
Bailly - Looked great when he was playing, has been injured so long I often forget we even have him.
Sanchez - Can't judge as it's way too early, we all know he's an absolutely quality top tier player, since getting here we've almost done our best to make him forget all that however, oh and as much as I love this signing, it looks more like an opportunistic signing rather than a signing of need, we all thought, finally, someone to go on the RW! Mourinho in all his genius though decides to shunt our best and most productive LW to the right in order to accommodate Sanchez, which, in my opinion, is just bad management, especially when we have such a gaping hole at RW.
Pogba - Looks like an infamous Mourinho falling out that he has a record of in nearly every club he's been at. We can all claim its media stirring things up, there's nothing in it etc, but the signs are all there, and McTominay is the bait in the middle which is unfair on the lad. He spent a ridiculous amount of money on him and has failed to get the best out of him on a consistent basis, say what you want about formations or setups or freeing Pogba up, but Mourinho bought him, he should know what Pogba is all about, what he can and cannot do, it seems to me like he's bought him figuring he could transform him into something Mourinho wants rather than just playing to his natural strengths
So, all in all, everyone, i feel, was happy enough to see Mourinho come in because despite the football he is a winner, and we will win things, and that first season was a step in the right direction. This next season, the football has got worse, we are nowhere near the PL or CL despite more spending and the signings haven't been terrific and he hasn't got the best of them, there's signs of some player unrest in Pogba, we could slip outside the Top 4, behind teams that have spent far less than us AND play much better football than us, entertaining football. So, if we do slip outside the Top 4, I genuinely ask the Mourinho fans, why In gods name should he be given another season with another 200million odd spend in the summer, in what world has he earned that, and I'm not talking about achievements he had well in the past.
Well no, the point, which I understood, was that 2nd is failure because it's not 1st and that it's nothing to be happy about. So, my question would be does it really matter whether we finished 2nd, 3rd or 4th?
I voted Opt. 1 but I have to say if you ask me again this time next year and we are still in a similar position then my patience might be wearing thin
I’m sat on the tram on the way to OT and have never been less enthusiastic about a game
I’m sat on the tram on the way to OT and have never been less enthusiastic about a game
I'm beginning to lose faith in him. It feels like hes a bit divided, hes a defensive coach and wants to set the team up how he always has, but he knows the club/fans expect attacking football. The result is a team that's not really great at either.
Well, I'd be happy with second. Butas to your point: 4th would be pretty poor and would consider it a failure - but not the same as 10th.
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