Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Sad Chris]

You said Klopp is not excellent, because he's a one trick pony. Is Guardiola not a one trick pony (possession football)?
My point is: You can be an excellent manager, even if you are a "one trick pony". Klopp is excellent at what he does. One of the very best, in fact. What is this critisism about anyways? Liverpools squad is not even among the top 5 (City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, even Tottenham) and still they made top 4. Ahead of United...

I strongly disagree. You cannot be an excellent manager if you can only play one style. It doesn't matter how good he is attacking. The whole idea of a management position is having everything you are in charge of under control. Your employees can excel in single areas, you need to bring all their strengths and talents together.

It doesn't matter if you manage an office, an orchestra or a football club. If you are great at one area but shit at another you won't be receiving an excellent rating for your general work.

And regarding the comparison of Utd's and Liverpool's performance last season...how come Klopp's performance rating always needs to be compared to Mourinho's first season at United? What point are you trying to make? He finished ahead of Mourinho once, so if Mourinho is regarded excellent then Klopp must be too?

He's as unbalanced as his squad and his pathetic behaviour on the sideline followed by his never ending excuses week in week out don't really convince me that he is a manager who has everything under control. He's acting more like somebody who is completely out of his depth.

 

[JB08]

You need to have luck, in football sometimes, and you need to have a referee who makes the right decisions. We drew at Watford, it was still an offside goal but we drew there, and today we drew again, after I thought, a clear penalty situation but we can't change that.

1. I thought managers aren't supposed to directly criticise referees?
2. Why does he constantly bring up refereeing decisions from the past?

 

[TheReligion]

You said Klopp is not excellent, because he's a one trick pony. Is Guardiola not a one trick pony (possession football)?


My point is: You can be an excellent manager, even if you are a "one trick pony". Klopp is excellent at what he does. One of the very best, in fact. What is this critisism about anyways? Liverpools squad is not even among the top 5 (City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, even Tottenham) and still they made top 4. Ahead of United...

A bit skewed when United ditched top four for EL glory.

Liverpool scraped it.

 

[Dumbstar]

A bit skewed when United ditched top four for EL glory.

Liverpool scraped it.

If you ditched EL glory for top four would you have DEFINITELY pipped Liverpool then? Hmm sounds a bit excusy to me.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

A bit skewed when United ditched top four for EL glory.

Liverpool scraped it.

Ditched? The reason United went after the Europa last season is because they were so far off in the league.

I strongly disagree. You cannot be an excellent manager if you can only play one style. It doesn't matter how good he is attacking. The whole idea of a management position is having everything you are in charge of under control. Your employees can excel in single areas, you need to bring all their strengths and talents together.

It doesn't matter if you manage an office, an orchestra or a football club. If you are great at one area but shit at another you won't be receiving an excellent rating for your general work.

What even is this crap.

 

[Laurentiu amt]

I strongly disagree. You cannot be an excellent manager if you can only play one style. It doesn't matter how good he is attacking. The whole idea of a management position is having everything you are in charge of under control. Your employees can excel in single areas, you need to bring all their strengths and talents together.

It doesn't matter if you manage an office, an orchestra or a football club. If you are great at one area but shit at another you won't be receiving an excellent rating for your general work.

And regarding the comparison of Utd's and Liverpool's performance last season...how come Klopp's performance rating always needs to be compared to Mourinho's first season at United? What point are you trying to make? He finished ahead of Mourinho once, so if Mourinho is regarded excellent then Klopp must be too?

He's as unbalanced as his squad and his pathetic behaviour on the sideline followed by his never ending excuses week in week out don't really convince me that he is a manager who has everything under control. He's acting more like somebody who is completely out of his depth.

Do you honestly think that Kloopp is bad at defening, a manager of such a high level? Get a grip man. Managing a football team is not the same as managing an office, lol. You;re managing millionaires, not office temps.

It's much higher pressure than in a normal day to day job.

If he would've had a good defender he would;ve used it for sure. He's trying to play to his strengths, play attacking football to relieve the pressure on the defense.

 

[RedCurry]

So is he going to get banned for openly talking about refs?

 

[Hojoon]

Ditched? The reason United went after the Europa last season is because they were so far off in the league.

I wouldn't say ditched but we clearly prioritized EL after the City match when Fellaini got sent off. We started Young, Shaw, and Rooney, two players who were struggling to make the bench all season and one who was clearly past it, against next opponent Swansea days before the first leg of the semifinal against Celta. If we had won the rest of our 5 league games we would have been in top 4 no matter what IIRC, so it wasn't because we were really far off although it was always difficult due to playing away at Arsenal and Spurs. Mou kept his options open all season and decided to choose EL after the City game as it was the easier and more glorious option.

 

[AmanNits04]

It's like that scenario where you don't want to fight a pig in a mud pit because the pig will enjoy it more than you ever will. (Not that I am comparing Liverpool to a pig, but it's a scenario). If you go full throttle

 

[AmanNits04]

It's like that scenario where you don't want to fight a pig in a mud pit because the pig will enjoy it more than you ever will. (Not that I am comparing Liverpool to a pig, but it's a scenario). If you go full throttle against them they will probably beat any team in the world. This is where the tactical awareness of a manager comes in, be patient against Liverpool, soak the pressure and their defense has a mistake or two written in them. They will leak goals if a team can utilize it properly.

 

[ti vu]

This is a bit of a contradiction in my eyes. He's either an average manager that should be getting more out of the squad (meaning it's not an average squad), or he's a decent manager over performing with an average squad.

This same side plus a few new signings finished on 76 points last season. That's got to be due to Klopp being a decent manager or the squad not being as terrible as some say it is, hasn't it?

Average talent all round squad? No. Unbalanced squad due to the manager not prioritize building a strong defensive unit? Yes = flawed manager who failed to address the old issue of the squad. He is good at coaching offensive play and L'pool has the attacking talent to trouble every team on their day.

 

[Joeace2020]

Klopp is a fraud and i don't get why people get angry when he is called out for what he truly is. Every decent manager knows teams are built from the back. Defence wins you titles mate. Liverpool has had a poor defence for quite some time and it's amazing Klopp can't spot and address it properly. Chelsea won the league last season but in the transfer window Conte got out for Rudiger and Zappacosta, United got Lindelof in addition to an already stuffed defence. No one even remembers him these days. Man City overhauled the defence, got Mendy, Walker and Danilo, Arsenal got Kolasinac who has been a beast for them, hell even Everton for their failings on the pitch got Keane and pickford. What did Liverpool get?? Robertson from hull city of all places and got rid of Sakho arguably their best defender.. It's a shambles honestly. They won't be winning anything serious with that defence and it's amazing how much they are willing to spend on attacking talent while the back is a gaping hole.

 

[Sad Chris]

What even is this crap.

Your point being?

 

[Sad Chris]

Do you honestly think that Kloopp is bad at defening, a manager of such a high level? Get a grip man.

Yes, he honestly is not just bad at setting up a defence, he doesn't even think there are better defenders on the market than the ones he has.

The love and blind following of this clown on here are sickening.

 

[B20]

The mental contortions people are making in this thread is something else.

 

[Ducklegs]

so he is basically a German Kevin Keegan

You say this in jest, but it's actually probably closer to the truth than anyone really wants to admit.

Now you've said it and I think back, it's almost uncanny, the play style, the bipolar reactions in interviews and at the pitch side, the drama queen antics, the complete inability to organize a defense.

For it to hold really true however we will need another couple of transfer windows, if we get a revolving door of identikit attacking players coming in to replace those they already have, before finally realizing the way they play won't win anything, then changing to what they think is a more defensive style that completely blunts their attack while not improving them defensively and then slipping down the league again.

Brendan had the same problem, but was arguably a slightly more competent defensive coach than Klopp.

 

[B20]

Brendan had the same problem, but was arguably a slightly more competent defensive coach than Klopp.

Rodgers' problem that got him the sack was that he tried to set up like Houllier in his last season, with fullbacks staying back and midfielders holding their positions, and had feck all to show for it on our defensive record. That's not a forgivable sin.

If we're going further back, he did alright defensively with swansea - but then Klopp had two momentously good seasons with dortmund as well where they conceded record low totals.

 

[Ducklegs]

Rodgers' problem that got him the sack was that he tried to set up like Houllier in his last season, with fullbacks staying back and midfielders holding their positions, and had feck all to show for it on our defensive record. That's not a forgivable sin.

If we're going further back, he did alright defensively with swansea - but then Klopp had two momentously good seasons with dortmund as well where they conceded record low totals.

Exactly Brendan had the same problem, like I said .

Reigned in the attackers, tried to tighten things up, blunted the attack while having little defensive benefit.

But that was from a starting point of being a slightly better defensive coach than Klopp in the first place, so although it wasn't a significant improvement for Brendan, it was a higher water mark than Klopp.

I don't remember Liverpool ever being as shambolic at the back as they are at the moment, apart from when Hodgson was in charge.

As for Klopp at Dortmund, he did somehow manage to end up with one of the best defenders in the world in the side with Hummels, and a very good Subotic next to him, never mind possible the best goal keeper in the world at the time as well.

What should ask is, was this just blind luck, and if not, what's changed in his outlook now?

 

[Thisistheone]

If you ditched EL glory for top four would you have DEFINITELY pipped Liverpool then? Hmm sounds a bit excusy to me.

Who cares when you're busy lifting trophies.

Anyway, another blow to Klopp yesterday you think? Jose getting his third 4-0 of the season shows attacking football can actually go hand in hand with defensive solidarity.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

There is actually great scope for discussion regarding Klopp but fans from both sides with their bias have ruined this thread. There seems to be no in between level between amazing and fraud in this thread

 

[Thunderhead]

There is actually great scope for discussion regarding Klopp but fans from both sides with their bias have ruined this thread. There seems to be no in between level between amazing and fraud in this thread

aye, same as the Guardiola thread, dunno how people can call him a fruad after having years of success in the BL, it wasn't as though he had 1 lucky season.

He's the same as most other top managers, has some great idea's on how to set the team up but has flaws in the squad that haven't been addressed for whatever reason and also no manager is perfect so will have also have flaws in how they sometimes set teams up.

 

[thegregster]

Ditched? The reason United went after the Europa last season is because they were so far off in the league.



What even is this crap.

Indeed. A whole point off top 4 after 34 games.



Such a massive gap.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39682899

 

[roonster09]

Indeed. A whole point off top 4 after 34 games.



Such a massive gap.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39682899

Top 3.

 

[KM]

Indeed. A whole point off top 4 after 34 games.



Such a massive gap.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39682899

Shh, don't bring facts in here.

 

[giorno]

aye, same as the Guardiola thread, dunno how people can call him a fruad after having years of success in the BL, it wasn't as though he had 1 lucky season.

He's the same as most other top managers, has some great idea's on how to set the team up but has flaws in the squad that haven't been addressed for whatever reason and also no manager is perfect so will have also have flaws in how they sometimes set teams up.

Already said this but there's a disconnect between LFC goals and expectations for the season and the public's expectations for them. Klopp identified Van Dijk as the perfect CB for his plans. They tried to get him and failed. They looked for another player as "perfect" for Klopp as him. Found none. Decided the team's good enough for a top 4 finish as is, instead of signing someone "lesser" than VVD. Same thing happened with Keita. The club wants top 4 this season. That's it. Their team as is is good enough for that. No need to spend lots of money for marginal improvements

 

[RedSky]

There is actually great scope for discussion regarding Klopp but fans from both sides with their bias have ruined this thread. There seems to be no in between level between amazing and fraud in this thread

It's a running theme throughout all the opposition threads. The level of discussion seems to be all about dick measuring rather than actual discussion.

In terms of Klopp, they aren't far off IMO. They've now got another quality attacker in Salah that will help them rotate a bit more and keep things fresh. But the Achilles heel has been and continues to be their defense. It's admirable that he's giving young players a go. He did the same at Dortmund. But I think you need a solid base to be able to do that and that's something they don't have. There's plenty of decent Cbs in the market too, so I'm a bit baffled they didn't get one this summer.

 

[KM]

Already said this but there's a disconnect between LFC goals and expectations for the season and the public's expectations for them. Klopp identified Van Dijk as the perfect CB for his plans. They tried to get him and failed. They looked for another player as "perfect" for Klopp as him. Found none. Decided the team's good enough for a top 4 finish as is, instead of signing someone "lesser" than VVD. Same thing happened with Keita. The club wants top 4 this season. That's it. Their team as is is good enough for that. No need to spend lots of money for marginal improvements

As things stand, there are 6 quality teams fighting for four spots. It's not a given that they'll get top4, it's downright negligent to not sign a CB for them. For all the stick Arsenal get, they're only 1 point behind Liverpool inspite of having a tougher fixture list.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The man is toss pot. Seriously the way he gets on with fourth officials etc, if that was Jose he'd be sent to the gallows.


I fecking hate that cnut. I actually dislike him more than Liverpool so it makes it that much sweeter when they don't win.

He's also a shit manager by the way. Fraud.

How hasn't he been punished for it yet? Every Liverpool game I watch Klopp seems to spend half of it screaming in the fourth officials face yet the FA do feck all about it. fecking joke when you see other managers getting punished for a lot less.

 

[cyberman]

Already said this but there's a disconnect between LFC goals and expectations for the season and the public's expectations for them. Klopp identified Van Dijk as the perfect CB for his plans. They tried to get him and failed. They looked for another player as "perfect" for Klopp as him. Found none. Decided the team's good enough for a top 4 finish as is, instead of signing someone "lesser" than VVD. Same thing happened with Keita. The club wants top 4 this season. That's it. Their team as is is good enough for that. No need to spend lots of money for marginal improvements

Improving their defence wouldn't be considered marginal though, it's a gaping black hole of a weakness that needs addressing.
It's also positions that doesn't need 70 million to improve. Our starting centrebacks cost less than 1 VVD for example.
There's no excuses for it.

 

[giorno]

As things stand, there are 6 quality teams fighting for four spots. It's not a given that they'll get top4, it's downright negligent to not sign a CB for them. For all the stick Arsenal get, they're only 1 point behind Liverpool inspite of having a tougher fixture list.

This is about money. They aren't going to spend £30m for Evans for example. Would he have improved their chances that much? I'm assuming the available alternatives didn't offer enough of an upgrade to justify the expense of money.

I still believe they should have signed N'Zonzi, but it's clear that Klopp is under no pressure to deliver trophies this season and that theirs is very much a long-term plan

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Ditched? The reason United went after the Europa last season is because they were so far off in the league.



What even is this crap.

You mean you can't understand a basic fact that a manager must improve on parts of his team/system that is causing the issues and lack of success?

This "crap" is a fundemental truth that is common knowledge. Ther fact that you can't or are not willing to engage with a basic tenet as this just highlights the issue with everything pool related. Long may it continue.

 

[giorno]

Improving their defence wouldn't be considered marginal though, it's a gaping black hole of a weakness that needs addressing.
It's also positions that doesn't need 70 million to improve. Our starting centrebacks cost less than 1 VVD for example.
There's no excuses for it.

Your CBs aren't particularly better than Matip or Lovren individually(can't judge lindeloff yet), it's Mourinho who makes them look good(thanks in no small part to the midfield. Conversely Klopp and 'pool's midfield has made their CBs look worse than they are). You also have far greater problems creating chances against teams that don't attack you when the score is tied. Maybe there were defenders that could improved them, the poont is, would they have improved them so much as to make a real difference in their chances for top4 and justify the expense of money? And keep in mind, playing CB for Klopp is way harder than playing CB for Mourinho

 

[cyberman]

Your CBs aren't particularly better than Matip or Lovren individually(can't judge lindeloff yet), it's Mourinho who makes them look good(thanks in no small part to the midfield). You also have far greater problems creating chances against teams that don't attack you when the score is tied. Maybe there were defenders that could improved them, the poont is, would they have improved them so much as to make a real difference in their chances for top4 and justify the expense of money? And keep in mind, playing CB for Klopp is way harder than playing CB for Mourinho

Our defenders who had the joint best defence in the league before Jose joined us?
Our defenders are miles better than Liverpool's. It's not even funny.

 

[KM]

This is about money. They aren't going to spend £30m for Evans for example. Would he have improved their chances that much? I'm assuming the available alternatives didn't offer enough of an upgrade to justify the expense of money.

I still believe they should have signed N'Zonzi, but it's clear that Klopp is under no pressure to deliver trophies this season and that theirs is very much a long-term plan

Well yes, Evans is much better than Lovren/Klavan.
Hang on you seem to be saying that the likes of Bailly, Jones etc aren't better individually than Lovren here? Are you even serious or just oblivious to PL football?

 

[Kush]

Your CBs aren't particularly better than Matip or Lovren individually(can't judge lindeloff yet), it's Mourinho who makes them look good(thanks in no small part to the midfield. Conversely Klopp and 'pool's midfield has made their CBs look worse than they are). You also have far greater problems creating chances against teams that don't attack you when the score is tied. Maybe there were defenders that could improved them, the poont is, would they have improved them so much as to make a real difference in their chances for top4 and justify the expense of money? And keep in mind, playing CB for Klopp is way harder than playing CB for Mourinho

There is so much wrong with this post. Don't give your opinion on leagues which you're not following seriously.

A look at their results since Klopp took over would tell you the teams that don't give them space i.e. mid-table and bottom table who play with two blocks of four give them the MOST trouble. Also, if you watched any of the zillion games we drew last season against same mid-table and bottom table opposition, we created ton of chances in nearly every match but were super wasteful with the finishing.

The CB part isn't even worth elaborating on.

 

[Peanut Butter]

@giorno you've had a shocker there mate

 

[Kostur]

Your CBs aren't particularly better than Matip or Lovren individually(can't judge lindeloff yet), it's Mourinho who makes them look good(thanks in no small part to the midfield. Conversely Klopp and 'pool's midfield has made their CBs look worse than they are). You also have far greater problems creating chances against teams that don't attack you when the score is tied. Maybe there were defenders that could improved them, the poont is, would they have improved them so much as to make a real difference in their chances for top4 and justify the expense of money? And keep in mind, playing CB for Klopp is way harder than playing CB for Mourinho

Well this is silly.

 

[Enigma_87]

Your CBs aren't particularly better than Matip or Lovren individually(can't judge lindeloff yet), it's Mourinho who makes them look good(thanks in no small part to the midfield. Conversely Klopp and 'pool's midfield has made their CBs look worse than they are). You also have far greater problems creating chances against teams that don't attack you when the score is tied. Maybe there were defenders that could improved them, the poont is, would they have improved them so much as to make a real difference in their chances for top4 and justify the expense of money? And keep in mind, playing CB for Klopp is way harder than playing CB for Mourinho

Are you serious? Liverpool's midfield offer a lot more protection to their CB's with Wijnaldum, Can and Henderson starting in all big games or away games. They have to of course since their CB pair is goddamn awful.

Never in the history of the Premier league Liverpool has had a better CB pair(individually or whatever) than United - even under LvG and Moyes.

 

[OutlawGER]

Exactly Brendan had the same problem, like I said .

Reigned in the attackers, tried to tighten things up, blunted the attack while having little defensive benefit.

But that was from a starting point of being a slightly better defensive coach than Klopp in the first place, so although it wasn't a significant improvement for Brendan, it was a higher water mark than Klopp.

I don't remember Liverpool ever being as shambolic at the back as they are at the moment, apart from when Hodgson was in charge.

As for Klopp at Dortmund, he did somehow manage to end up with one of the best defenders in the world in the side with Hummels, and a very good Subotic next to him, never mind possible the best goal keeper in the world at the time as well.

What should ask is, was this just blind luck, and if not, what's changed in his outlook now?

Best goalkeeper in the world? Weidenfeller?

 

[Klopper76]

A point worth noting, we've lost two games since March. There's a lot of posts suggesting we're in some sort of crisis.

The defensive issues are a concern but we should start judging everyone after Xmas.