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It seems you guys don't know the unwritten rule. If you criticize Klopp you must criticize Mourinho too.
You kept your key players. You signed players like Salah. You finished top 4 last season. Stands to reason that you should expect to be challenging for the title. Yet you're already resigned to hoping for a top 4 finish.And we're after another to for finish and no more because Klopp dicked about in the summer. It happened, we have to move on.
I think @Dumbstar has been refreshingly honest about this to be honest. Klopp isnt taking the same amount of flak because they have thrown in the towel as far as winning the league is concerned. They are in the same position as we were in for the final few league games last season - except they got there by October, without having a Europa Cup Final to prepare for. Its German efficiency at its best.I'm surprise this is so difficult to grasp.
No one's arguing Mourinho wasn't defensive. He was and has taken a lot of flak on this forum for it.
Thing is, why has Klopp taken no criticism for not going for the win either? We were terrible on the day, sitting back and there for the taking yet all his subs were like for like changes. Why not take off a CM and make it a 2 v 2 match up there and give your team another attacking player? A win over us could have been the big boost your club needed.
To be clear, I don't give a shit about whether or not Klopp gets criticised, my post was simply in response to a meek attempt at dodging a valid point made.
I keep hearing this and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We've played with the same midfield three in the majority of the games we've played this season, including when we put four past Arsenal and Hoffenheim. Your last shot of the game was in the 43rd minute of the game - that's embarrassing.We did all we could with two midfielders when Liverpool also went for a draw but staying with 3 midfielders rather than gambling to try and get a win. Had we been more at full strength we would have matched their midfield three and been more attacking as a result.
He brought on two strikers and a wide player. Even if you're arguing that Sturridge/Ox for Coutinho and Salah was like for like, then it effectively kept an attacking system... attacking.And to make three late subs without making the team any more attacking is not something that many managers would do in a game where they really needed three points (especially when they didn't have any subs forced by injury).
For example his reasoning could have been that the numbers advantage in midfield gave his team an amount of control and bite (in pressing) that was more valuable than having one more attacker, but one less midfielder to feed him. Or simply that those three had to be subbed of because of fitness/injury concerns.I'm surprise this is so difficult to grasp.
No one's arguing Mourinho wasn't defensive. He was and has taken a lot of flak on this forum for it.
Thing is, why has Klopp taken no criticism for not going for the win either? We were terrible on the day, sitting back and there for the taking yet all his subs were like for like changes. Why not take off a CM and make it a 2 v 2 match up there and give your team another attacking player? A win over us could have been the big boost your club needed.
To be clear, I don't give a shit about whether or not Klopp gets criticised, my post was simply in response to a meek attempt at dodging a valid point made.
Throwing a bone to the fans stuff from a Liverpool fan is pretty ironic.I keep hearing this and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We've played with the same midfield three in the majority of the games we've played this season, including when we put four past Arsenal and Hoffenheim. Your last shot of the game was in the 43rd minute of the game - that's embarrassing.
He brought on two strikers and a wide player. Even if you're arguing that Sturridge/Ox for Coutinho and Salah was like for like, then it effectively kept an attacking system... attacking.
But fair fecks to Mourinho for throwing United fans this bone to cling on to in the face of a completely gutless display.
I think @Dumbstar has been refreshingly honest about this to be honest. Klopp isnt taking the same amount of flak because they have thrown in the towel as far as winning the league is concerned. They are in the same position as we were in for the final few league games last season - except they got there by October, without having a Europa Cup Final to prepare for. Its German efficiency at its best.
There was that very good Can chance where he hooked it over the goal. Can't remember much outside of that though.
Thinking back to the game, did Liverpool get a single shot on target in the second half? Damned if I can remember any. That's a fairly fecking embarrassing effort against a "gutless" team that apparently had no game-plan other than desperate last-ditch defending. Almost as though Klopp didn't go for the jugular after all, right?
The only excuse for doing it would be if he wanted to change something in order to win the game. But apparently both managers were happy to take the point.Why would Klopp switch from a midfield three to a two and then give Mourinho some manoeuvrability tactically? If we were the team looking more likely in the second half why would he throw that advantage away and risk United's midfield getting a foothold in the match?
His constant moaning and bitchiness is going to invite some flack. Especially from fans of other clubs. He is very fortunate that he media still likes him, because his own work is mediocre at best atm. Did he improve a single player? Firmino might be the only one. He should focus on his own work and reflect how he can do better. He starts to look like Wenger who simply refuses to accept any responsibility for his results. He has certainly no reason to lecture anyone about tactics.I don't think anyone disputes that Klopp can be a sore loser during or immediately after matches, but a lot of what's going on in this thread goes way past that.
Way too often it's like some drama loving journo takes a sound bite completely out of context then someone posts it in this thread, sometimes even misquoting and then people do their best to read what they want to read into that distorted version of a statement.
Like for example if Klopp (or Guardiola/Wenger for that matter) said something like "we didn't play well, lacked precision and the condition of the pitch didn't help either". Some journo then makes the headline "Klopp unhappy with pitch" and this thread is like "omg he blamed the pitch again, can't take responsibility, always someone else's fault".
Do you accept it was also a gutless display from Klopp in that case? Seeing as it was more of a must win game for you lot.I keep hearing this and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We've played with the same midfield three in the majority of the games we've played this season, including when we put four past Arsenal and Hoffenheim. Your last shot of the game was in the 43rd minute of the game - that's embarrassing.
He brought on two strikers and a wide player. Even if you're arguing that Sturridge/Ox for Coutinho and Salah was like for like, then it effectively kept an attacking system... attacking.
But fair fecks to Mourinho for throwing United fans this bone to cling on to in the face of a completely gutless display.
No man, we do not want our rivals to sack their incompetent managers.Fixed that for you.
It's the only cure.
If you want to look at it like that I think he can take some credit for Wijnaldun, Lallana and Mane as well, who all made a step forward under him as far as I can tell. I wouldn't call his work mediocre at best. Getting to the EL final after taking over midseason (albeit losing it) was a success, so was making top 4 ahead of Arsenal and United last season, not the kind of miracles he delivered in his earlier Dortmund days, but good solid work nonetheless.. He seems to have taken his problems in build up with him from Dortmund though, which pretty much rules any kind of title challenge and the persistence of such an obvious weakness does indeed remind me of Wenger.His constant moaning and bitchiness is going to invite some flack. Especially from fans of other clubs. He is very fortunate that he media still likes him, because his own work is mediocre at best atm. Did he improve a single player? Firmino might be the only one. He should focus on his own work and reflect how he can do better. He starts to look like Wenger who simply refuses to accept any responsibility for his results. He has certainly no reason to lecture anyone about tactics.
But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.The only excuse for doing it would be if he wanted to change something in order to win the game. But apparently both managers were happy to take the point.
Taking out your two best attackers didn't make much sense either. If Klop really wanted to win, he would have taken off one of the midfielders. Yes it would have increase the risk of United stealing the game away but it would have increase Liverpools chances of goal too.But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.
Going to a midfield two might've weakened our position and made it harder for us to win the game, making it a daft move tactically.
You looked more likely to win it than us, but you also looked less likely to win than it would end in a draw. And taking into account how you fade at the end of games, whereas we tend to finish strongly, it is also a bit too simplistic to say you looked more likely to win it. Yes you looked better than us and were attacking way, way more than us, but I always felt the longer the game went on, the better our chance of snatching it. Which may have been exactly what was on Klopp's mind too, hence maybe he was happy to settle for the point at that stage.But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.
Going to a midfield two might've weakened our position and made it harder for us to win the game, making it a daft move tactically.
Actually there was one overpowering and pungent ingredient.United could afford not to win, and Liverpool couldn't afford to lose; all the ingredients for a borefest, and so it proved to be.
One win in eight matches - that's embarrassing.I keep hearing this and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We've played with the same midfield three in the majority of the games we've played this season, including when we put four past Arsenal and Hoffenheim. Your last shot of the game was in the 43rd minute of the game - that's embarrassing.
He brought on two strikers and a wide player. Even if you're arguing that Sturridge/Ox for Coutinho and Salah was like for like, then it effectively kept an attacking system... attacking.
But fair fecks to Mourinho for throwing United fans this bone to cling on to in the face of a completely gutless display.
Yeah, but they won the shots. That's what matters.One win in eight matches - that's embarrassing.
Whoera? Are you genuinely 12?That's because unsurprisingly he's being deliberately obtuse. Klopp could have taken off Salah, Coutinho and Firmino and replaced them with Klavan, Robertson and Karius as an outfielder player and STILL been more offensive than Jose even after he chose to bring on Mata, Rashford and Lingard for Whorera, Smalling and Young.
But that's enough words wasted on here for another wind up and/or myopia beyond belief. Jose has lost ground after the weekend, not Liverpool. We are where we deserve to be after yet another shit summer, i.e. 4 points from third place which is the extent of our ambition.
It's just do.ob to be fair and he's largely an hypocrite so it's okay.Loving the way the German lads still flock in here to defend /praise Klopp. It's so, so sad.
My impression was that Coutinho and Firmino weren't able to finish the game due to flying back from international games a few days prior, and the same for Salah. Maybe he could've kept one on but I'm not sure.Taking out your two best attackers didn't make much sense either. If Klop really wanted to win, he would have taken off one of the midfielders. Yes it would have increase the risk of United stealing the game away but it would have increase Liverpools chances of goal too.
Ultimately Klop decided it wasn't worth the risk to go for a win and settled for a draw.
Swap the situation, I would have been very disappointed with Jose if he had decided to settle with draw against a liverpool side that, due to injuries, can't play more than 2 midfielders at Old Trafford. But I am positive that in such scenario, he wouldn't have hesitated one bit before going for a spanking.
He will blame the opposition if he does not get 3 points and liverpool fans will blindly back him.So, which tactical masterpiece will Klopp present to us tonight? Which strategy will he choose? I wonder...
Just to add to this, in the equivalent fixture last season, Mourinho's final substitution (in the 75th minute) was taking off Darmian and replacing him with Fellaini. He had already replaced Carrick with Rooney by this point (and brought Mata on for Martial). So we're not talking hypothetical scenarios here.Taking out your two best attackers didn't make much sense either. If Klop really wanted to win, he would have taken off one of the midfielders. Yes it would have increase the risk of United stealing the game away but it would have increase Liverpools chances of goal too.
Ultimately Klop decided it wasn't worth the risk to go for a win and settled for a draw.
Swap the situation, I would have been very disappointed with Jose if he had decided to settle with draw against a liverpool side that, due to injuries, can't play more than 2 midfielders at Old Trafford. But I am positive that in such scenario, he wouldn't have hesitated one bit before going for a spanking.
Now now, let's not bring Klopp's teeth into this.Actually there was one overpowering and pungent ingredient.
You were never winning that game.But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.
Going to a midfield two might've weakened our position and made it harder for us to win the game, making it a daft move tactically.
What you're saying is you don't want to lose by adding more fire power by at same time open the game for us. That's Mourinho point. This whole "already on top" doesn't mean you guys would eventually score. Given your recent form and how we have endless of example of team being on top just couldn't score however high their possession stats is, it's reasonable to think going with same tactic and subbing inferior players in, you guys didn't go for the kill but being pragmatic in your own way toward the end.But we were already on top and looking more likely to win it with a midfield three.
Going to a midfield two might've weakened our position and made it harder for us to win the game, making it a daft move tactically.
This moral victory is huge for Liverpool, I believe it puts them 18 points clear at the top of the alternate league table and more importanty it extends the lifespan of Klopp as their manager. He will remain in charge for another 2 seasons at least after saturdays moral victory.Ahh the moral victory. Stick it in the trophy cabinet next to all the dusty spoils of 80s pass-back-football. No wins in eight, a goal difference of one and a fight for fifth with Arsenal to look forward to. You can keep your heavy metal football pal.