Look LVG is here for 2 more years, this guy can be our manager for 20 years. He plays a much better brand of football, the type of football Man Utd is all about. I really really hope the board are considering this, no chance would I trust LVG with another £5 let alone £150million.
Jurgen Klopp
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Mine too.
LVG big game aside, it's clear his tactics don't suit the premier league especially when emphasis is on us to attack.
9th in the league.
Great brand of football
.
Great brand of football
.Van Gaal had Barcelona in the bottom half of the table. It happens.9th in the league.
Great brand of football
But obviously, I'd only want him if LVG does not get top four.
Oooook think I'll give the caf a miss for a bit until everyone has calmed down.
Got van Gaal the sack at Bayern9th in the league.
Great brand of football
Again; EVERYTHING went against Dortmund in the first half of the Bundesliga season.9th in the league.
Great brand of football
Its a 2 cup season with a CL KO round and an EL place, IF they win the cup final.
If thats his worst I would take it.
Always have been a fan of Klopp. He had his missteps(Bayern copy like the Chinese) but overall a great guy and brilliant coach.
He will go down in history as one of the best imo. United fans would love him.
I think it's simply how things are for managers. After a while their methods wear out at the club that they are and things aren't working as they used to. For a manger in the modern game those 7 years Klopp lasted at Dortmund are a damn long time. We are just spoiled with having the same manager for 25 years but it's an anomaly and not the norm in football.
That being said I also think there are some things about Klopp that can be viewed critical. Especially the transfers if it comes to buying established players have been really lackluster imo. That being said when it came to young talent he more often than not picked the right players it seemed also there are examples of young players he brought in that never really made the cut either.
That being said I also think there are some things about Klopp that can be viewed critical. Especially the transfers if it comes to buying established players have been really lackluster imo. That being said when it came to young talent he more often than not picked the right players it seemed also there are examples of young players he brought in that never really made the cut either.
So lets sack someone in their first year who is on course to meet their targets and hire someone who took a team to ninth.Got van Gaal the sack at Bayern
Lets forget that Mourinho wasn't exactly perfect last season
Took a team to ninthSo lets sack someone in their first year who is on course to meet their targets and hire someone who took a team to ninth.
Lets forget that Mourinho wasn't exactly perfect last season
as well as win 2x Bundesliga and cruelly lose a CL final... Remind me where LvG took Barcelona? A man you did hire...
@ drama queens in hereYeah you are right LVG hasnt done anything in football. Especially last summer..he did feck all then. Do oneTook a team to ninth
Remind me where LvG took Barcelona? A man you did hire...
So lets act like van Gaal has never won anythingTook a team to ninth
Remind me where LvG took Barcelona? A man you did hire...
Why am I even entertaining such bullshit.
But you can act like Klopp hasn't?So lets act like van Gaal has never won anything
Why am I even entertaining such bullshit.
I'm asking myself the same question...
Where did I act like that?
The fact is his team are sitting ninth and people want him to replace our manager because we lost a game on Saturday
If we were sitting ninth under Klopp what would people say? "Oh but look he's won titles before"?
I didn't even come close to claiming or implying that
Somebody brings up a season of failure as to why Klopp shouldn't be United manager. I give examples of current United manager failing (at the hands of Klopp no less) and somehow it's a "van Gaal has done nothing in football!" statement?
What exactly has LVG done wrong?I didn't even come close to claiming or implying that
Somebody brings up a season of failure as to why Klopp shouldn't be United manager. I give examples of current United manager failing (at the hands of Klopp no less) and somehow it's a "van Gaal has done nothing in football!" statement?
It's one bad season! Once again I have to say your current manager got sacked for having Barcelona hovering around the fecking relegation zone. By your logic that means he shouldn't be United manager. Klopp's an excellent manager and to dismiss him based on this season is just unbelievably ignorant.Where did I act like that?
The fact is his team are sitting ninth and people want him to replace our manager because we lost a game on Saturday
If we were sitting ninth under Klopp what would people say? "Oh but look he's won titles before"?
Nothing. I'm not saying he should be sacked. I just don't see why people need to dismiss Klopp
And to sack van Gaal now is idiotic.
wrong post quoted sorryI didn't even come close to claiming or implying that
Somebody brings up a season of failure as to why Klopp shouldn't be United manager. I give examples of current United manager failing (at the hands of Klopp no less) and somehow it's a "van Gaal has done nothing in football!" statement?
Because we have a top quality manager. 4 managers in 4 seasons is not the way forward. LVG still needs to address a number of positions, pretty sure any new manager would also need to address the same issues. Klopp has done well, but just because he is available does not mean someone else should be dismissed.Nothing. I'm not saying he should be sacked. I just don't see why people need to dismiss Klopp
I would be very surprised if any of the top clubs want Klopp. RM and Barca won't want his style, BM have Pep, Chelsea have Jose, We have LVG, PSG have Blanc, Arsenal have Wenger so I can only see him going to Italy.
City and Liverpool could do with him tbf.
I don't think his style is so unsuited to Real Madrid either. Whether or not they've got the players to play his style I don't know but aesthetically there was some nice stuff from Dortmund in the Reus, Judas & Judas days. The football in Kagawa's first season was right up there with the best in Europe.
I agree with the first paragraph. I wouldn't sack LvG.
Since @Pink Moon is afraid to say it, I'll say it, by Christmas next year people will be ruing that we missed out on Klopp in the summer.
Quote me on that.
Quote me on that.
Quoted.
Not saying that I disagree though. It is quite likely that will happen. Especially if LVG goes mental as usual.
Been seen today meeting with the Chairman of...
Fenerbache.
Odd one. If he went there, could we assume that to be a relatively short stint before one of the big jobs he wants comes available? You'd worry that if it didn't go well for him in Turkey he'd struggle to then get back to the level of his Dortmund side. What are the German media saying about it?
Fenerbache.
Odd one. If he went there, could we assume that to be a relatively short stint before one of the big jobs he wants comes available? You'd worry that if it didn't go well for him in Turkey he'd struggle to then get back to the level of his Dortmund side. What are the German media saying about it?
That would be strange.
Not to be disrespectful towards Turkish football but that seems like a huge waste.
The Club already denied it
Lots of things. He's done lots of things right, of course, but off hand, mistakes so far:
Player Personnel
1. Rafael frozen out and not given a chance.
2. Herrera not a starter for months, which was just flat out wrong.
3. Falcao, over and over upfront. Why?
4. Di Maria, coming off being the CL MOTM, hasn't been able to help us. Realistically, if we were going to challenge for the title, he would have had too.
5. Rooney not as a 9 and instead playing in midfield. See #3, here.
6. There are reports he hasn't gotten on with De Gea that well. That won't help us retain him.
General
7. 3 at the back didn't really work, all in all, and it was what he implement after having much of the window, lots of money and some decent players already in the squad to work with.
8. We've got 7 points in our last 6 games, so tough to argue we're ending the season with great momentum.
9. We've looked coherent and solid with this 4-5-1 most of the time, but also very predictable.
10. Our buildup is so slow that we seem to need Fellaini out there to generate offense and that sort of thing has a limited upside. We aren't challenging for the title year in year out and consistently getting to the semis in the Cl with that.
Klopp wouldn't be perfect, but Van Gaal isn't either.
I do think Klopp would fit out personnel better in that he'd be comfortable playing 4-2-3-1 with Rooney up top, Mata as a 10, Di Maria and Memphis on the wings and Herrera and a more defensive partner like Carrick or Blind. But I also think that team would be a bit haphazard and we might concede more.
Klopp may be available in 2-4 years when Van Gaal likely goes. Managers don't stick anywhere too long, and Van Gaal seems likely to be able to keep us in the CL and Woodward and the money people are consistently signing players in their early 20's who are going to improve and are already good enough like Herrera, Shaw and Memphis, so I don't think we'll be worse off staying with Van Gaal for another few years and letting him fix the team before the next manager gets the spoils, like Heynckes did at Bayern.
If he wants a short stint, he should take a Euro 2016 job. Win some qualifying games against dross and keep his stock up then sign a deal around Christmas next year like Guardiola did for Bayern and he can take over right after the tournament, no matter how it goes, and maybe he even wins the thing.
Wow. Some of your opinions don't seem to take into consideration the state of the squad or team at the time.
1. Rafael is very skillful and plays with his heart instead of his head, you could say typical Brazilian. He has been injured for a long time, and it is not a stretch to suggest that he can't play with the discipline that LVG wants.
2. Herrera showed in the pre-season the type of player he was, attack minded and often chased the ball. Beautiful to watch after the season before, but again, LVG needs players to play to a structure. Herrera has become a better player for it.
3. Falcao played very few games from the start, so bit of an exaggeration. For all the criticism of him, neither Rooney or RVP fared any better up front.
4. Di Maria, like Herrera came and played his usual attacking football, however, once he got sent off and Young took advantage, LVG was right to play a player in form.
5. Rooney didn't play 9 under Fergie for long because he is not a good 9. He keeps looking for the ball rather than getting into a position a natural striker would. The mistake was playing him in midfield just because he was captain. In our purple patch Rooney was up front and contributed sweet FA.
6. If DDG was unhappy it certainly did not show in his performances.
7. 3 at the back was for a reason, it is not his preferred formation. If the players above could play as he wanted he would not have played that way.
8. And you do not think that is because certain players switched off. There is only the Everton game that we deserved to lose.
9. Again, individual mistakes, rather than tactics. Our games against Spurs, Liverpool, Villa, City and Chelsea should the intent. It was against park the bus that things did not work out.
10. Been explained before, mindset of players on the day, LVG made it very clear it is always about moving the ball and players moving into position.
@SalfordRed1960, good post. I agree with some, disagree with others:
1. Rafael wasn't replaced with Lahm or someone else who is particularly disciplined. Valencia is positionally all over the place at RB, like most wingers.
2. I think Herrera was ready earlier and Van Gaal underrates his defensive work, but I can't argue that he's played well this 2nd half and maybe his growth has been helped by Van Gaal (could be a CM hitting his prime, too, as he's almost 26). At least it hasn't been hurt by it.
3. Falcao has started 14 games. That's just too many, considering how physically shot he looks.
4. If he hadn't mistakenly tried to play 3 at the back for so long he might have found a way to use our best personnel in their natural positions with Rooney up top, Di Maria and Mata creating in midfield, Herrera box to box, one of Blind or Carrick sitting deep and then the 6th player in the front 6 determined by whoever fits in with those players best.
5. Rooney is a good 9. It's his best position. When he wanders, it opens spaces for others to attack the box, and he still manages to score goals. If Rooney signed for Bayern, Barca or Madrid, he would only play as a 9.
6. I'm not worried about De Gea's performances. I am worried he's leaving for Madrid. Van Gaal was oddly reticent to credit him early in the season. United had to be recruiting De Gea. If he leaves (especially with 1 year left on the deal or a Bosman), we will be worse off.
7. Not sure what to respond here. He tried 3 at the back as our main formation even though the Dutch looked unable to create much while playing it, except on the counter. We need to be out there dominating teams with our most talented players on the pitch to rack up points in the league and then if we need to get more solid in the tougher games, you do that. Van Gaal has gone backwards. We're solid in big games and stiff and boring in others and the result is that we've scored a disappointing 62 goals in 37 games.
8. If a bunch of the players switched off, then the Manager is somewhat responsible, surely.
9. Most teams will park the bus against us! That's what happens to the best teams. That's why we need some ambition, talent and risk out there. Hopefully we see it next year and this one was just about being solid, getting 4th and, though it wasn't his first plan, finding a workable formation with the Dutch/Barca 4-3-3 we have used lately.
10. Didn't grok this one.
1. Rafael wasn't replaced with Lahm or someone else who is particularly disciplined. Valencia is positionally all over the place at RB, like most wingers.
2. I think Herrera was ready earlier and Van Gaal underrates his defensive work, but I can't argue that he's played well this 2nd half and maybe his growth has been helped by Van Gaal (could be a CM hitting his prime, too, as he's almost 26). At least it hasn't been hurt by it.
3. Falcao has started 14 games. That's just too many, considering how physically shot he looks.
4. If he hadn't mistakenly tried to play 3 at the back for so long he might have found a way to use our best personnel in their natural positions with Rooney up top, Di Maria and Mata creating in midfield, Herrera box to box, one of Blind or Carrick sitting deep and then the 6th player in the front 6 determined by whoever fits in with those players best.
5. Rooney is a good 9. It's his best position. When he wanders, it opens spaces for others to attack the box, and he still manages to score goals. If Rooney signed for Bayern, Barca or Madrid, he would only play as a 9.
6. I'm not worried about De Gea's performances. I am worried he's leaving for Madrid. Van Gaal was oddly reticent to credit him early in the season. United had to be recruiting De Gea. If he leaves (especially with 1 year left on the deal or a Bosman), we will be worse off.
7. Not sure what to respond here. He tried 3 at the back as our main formation even though the Dutch looked unable to create much while playing it, except on the counter. We need to be out there dominating teams with our most talented players on the pitch to rack up points in the league and then if we need to get more solid in the tougher games, you do that. Van Gaal has gone backwards. We're solid in big games and stiff and boring in others and the result is that we've scored a disappointing 62 goals in 37 games.
8. If a bunch of the players switched off, then the Manager is somewhat responsible, surely.
9. Most teams will park the bus against us! That's what happens to the best teams. That's why we need some ambition, talent and risk out there. Hopefully we see it next year and this one was just about being solid, getting 4th and, though it wasn't his first plan, finding a workable formation with the Dutch/Barca 4-3-3 we have used lately.
10. Didn't grok this one.
in the aftermath of LvG's demise in munich, there were a few discussions about his merits and his shortcomings.
merits:
He reformed the team without spending a fortune
He boosted some talents to the status of top players - Badstuber, Müller
He reached a CL final with a team that wasn't on many people's shortlist
He layed the foundation for the playstyle later implemented with quite some success by Heynckes and Pep - short passing etc.
shortcomings:
he neglected developing the defense as much as he did on the attack. According to some players, "we never did much about defense play at all in training"
he interfered with/tried to change the power structure in the club
he overdid his "developing youth players", like replacing the experienced Butt as goalie by young and undoubtedly talented Thomas Kraft when the team was already in a shaky state, which backfired
he also was accused to have no "plan b" in his tactics, leading to very static and ineffective displays against certain teams.
He also brought two players with him, who were nothing more than useful squad players (Pranjic) or very clearly not up to succeeding in a top league (Braafheid).
i'm not familiar enough with what was going on at United this season. What do you think? Same symptoms visible - or did he learn?
merits:
He reformed the team without spending a fortune
He boosted some talents to the status of top players - Badstuber, Müller
He reached a CL final with a team that wasn't on many people's shortlist
He layed the foundation for the playstyle later implemented with quite some success by Heynckes and Pep - short passing etc.
shortcomings:
he neglected developing the defense as much as he did on the attack. According to some players, "we never did much about defense play at all in training"
he interfered with/tried to change the power structure in the club
he overdid his "developing youth players", like replacing the experienced Butt as goalie by young and undoubtedly talented Thomas Kraft when the team was already in a shaky state, which backfired
he also was accused to have no "plan b" in his tactics, leading to very static and ineffective displays against certain teams.
He also brought two players with him, who were nothing more than useful squad players (Pranjic) or very clearly not up to succeeding in a top league (Braafheid).
i'm not familiar enough with what was going on at United this season. What do you think? Same symptoms visible - or did he learn?
Maybe he likes teams with yellow kits. That doesn't rule Arsenal out as a future destination though...
Surely the Fenerbache thing is just a rumour? There's no way his stock could have plummeted that much with one bad season!
Not believing the Fenerbahce story one bit.
In terms of the shortcomings from bayern, I wouldn't say he neglected the defence with us, in fact he seemed to work on that before our attacking play because he probably identified it as a weakness.
The power structure at the club doesn't require too much interfering with since he has absolute control so as long as he doesn't try to launch a takeover of the club the board should be happy with him taking complete charge of football related activities.
Louis van Gaal also said Alex Ferguson told him he is doing fine and said every manager needs time (even when he was actually doing poor), Louis van Gaal stated it's helpful when Sir Alex and the board believe in you. The fans also clapped him off the pitch numerous times despite poor performances and defeats (we had 13 points in 11 games), he was impressed by this claiming in Barcelona they would have white handkerchiefs or something out for him, in Munich there would be whistles and in Amsterdam 'they would be shouting for my friend, Johann Cruyff'.
He didn't use youth that much when he could choose his selection, he did turn to them when necessary though as he has had a season of the defence struggling to stay fit.
When Fellaini was on the bench there was an obvious plan B however due to the success of the plan B Fellaini became a starter. If he couldn't break down the opposition then he would spend the final 15 minutes knocking balls up to the target man Fellaini.
His signings are difficult to judge, firstly Luke Shaw and Herrera were already targets and he simply gave the green light to sign them, Blind and Rojo were definitely his signings, Angel di Maria and Falcao might have been or they might have been a statement from the board. Either way Alex Ferguson has already said he isn't going to judge the new signings this season because it takes time for players to adapt, he said they should be judged next season and I think that's fair too.
He had many shortcomings this season but it appears they were different to what he experienced at Bayern, he is yet to show the players his balls and he hasn't fallen out with anybody as far as we know, he also has had many positives. I think it's the right thing to give him another season, this time he can have a normal summer as last season he made it quite far in the world cup and so he started much later than the other managers. We'll see what he can build next season, he obviously has the ability to build a great team but that will only become a reality if he makes the right choices, I think expecting a serious title challenge is a fair objective for next season.
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