La Liga - 2014/15
- Thread starter jojojo
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Lucho is an average manager. Don't think we're winning anything with him in charge 
Just accept that the Barca cycle is over and wait for it to come around again.Lucho is an average manager. Don't think we're winning anything with him in charge
The Messi/bottle incident if breaking news on SSN. Not really newsworthy, though I hope the LFP do something about it, especially after what happened yesterday.
He doesn't look a great manager and they don't have same control as during their peak years, but still Barca are well in hunt for trophies. Guess they might come bit short in the end like last season but if he improves team gradually and Barca are in hunt for trophies till end, he shouldn't be fired straight away. The results have not been 'disaster' till now. Just that the control which used to be there is not anymore. Not sure if only Lucho is responsible for that.Lucho is an average manager. Don't think we're winning anything with him in charge
the worst thing about that incident is that the idiotic ref carded messi for wasting time!
I think they do have to react to it, and that they will. I suspect the death today, though it happened outside the ground will lead to a lot of soul-searching about what goes on in the grounds. The fines for incidents are too low and too many things, like racial abuse, get ignored.
As for the water bottle throwing itself, it's too frequent in Spain. I remember Casillas getting hit by a bottle at Sevilla. Ronaldo got hit by a cigarette lighter walking off the field at Atletico. Courtois got hit by a lighter in a game at the Bernabeu, Pique nearly did. Juande Ramos got hit by a bottle, hard enough that he had to go to hospital for tests at a match in Sevilla.
A couple of games have been stopped after things were thrown in the last few years, with the missing minutes played a few days later, behind closed doors. But where clubs have been fined, the fines have been too low to actually force a change in stewarding or ticketing.
I think he's tried something new lately of pushing up the full backs much much further - almost as outside rights/lefts and then dropping the DM in to form a three man centre back partnership. It is working I'd say, that long pass to Alves/Alba who are stretching the teams as much as possible is penetrative and almost always there.
The opponents have to decide whether they want to squeeze together the defense and cover Neymar-Suarez-Messi or if they want to bother about Alves/Alba who are basically in line with the offside-line.
I think it has been quite interesting, they create a lot of chances and I think that Suarez, Neymar and Messi has been the ones performing he worst in that set up so far. They've not consistently provided those moments of magics - that they need to do to make the strategy work.
People are a bitch hard on Lucho for now I'd say. He had a good start and he's pushed Messi out wide which is a very difficult call to make.
They should have a camera angle that moves sideways perpendicular to the ball. Think parallax error due to the slight slant on the camera angle, influences our perception incorrectly on the offside calls.
Interesting. It is blasphemy for Barca fans as well as Messi fanbois if a manager wants him to do something different than what he did under Pep so people will be onto Lucho as soon as there is dip in form for Barca. I too personally feel that Messi is better utilized in their previous system but then he will need better support from midfield (which might not happen because of opposition being better clued to their previous system and Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets not in same form as before) and it will make one of Neymar/Suarez redundant. If they fail, I would blame their transfer policy. From whatever little I have seen and what you have described, it is not all that bad that he is trying something different. Their results have been good mostly.
If you don't feel like writing something about Barca/Messi, don't push yourself. You make no sense at all.
The results they're currently getting would be attainable for plenty of managers. During Pep's years they had the edge over other top European teams because he was always willing to work hard to improve them and change things, they'd go on to dominate games like the other team weren't there. They probably have a superior personnel right now (especially up front, Suarez and Neymar are better than anyone bar Eto'o from Pep's days) but they can't reach the same heights.
If you are not capable of comprehending a post and replying sensibly, don't push yourself. You make no sense at all.
In the past we have seen teams with great individual players suffer so it is not fair to say that plenty of managers will achieve those results. Even if they can, still isn't it unfair to criticize too early? If at end of season, they are without trophies and without improvements, then ya it is fair to say. It is not that like Moyes he has made them worse suddenly. Their defense still needs a proper CB or two and who knows, with them they can get better. There is no single right style of play as opposed to what Barca fans might want everyone to believe.
Huh? Maybe a case can be made for the front 3 being better now (which so far remains a paper argument anyway as long as it's not even clear what positions Messi and Suarez will occupy) but which other part of Barca's XI is better now than it was 3 years ago? Alba instead of Abidal? Mathieu/Mascherano instead of Puyol? 35 year old Xavi vs. prime Xavi? The hunger and intensity of a collective that has won nothing compared to a collective that has won everything multiple times (probably the most important aspect)?
Whether Enrique will come good or not I don't know, time will tell, he makes mistakes I suppose but he is a very young coach who can only improve, this is only his 3th season in the top flight, not everyone is Guardiola, and he has Barca 2 points behind the most in-form team in Europe after having played away to them while holding the 3th best defensive record in Europe. The other game they've lost they hit the woodwork 4 times. I don't know what people are expecting. When people say things like "Enrique is an average coach" what do they believe a proven world class coach would do? Win 13 out of 13? Would United fans ask for Giggs' head if Giggs was managing United in the same fashion?
Like Messi, Barcelona are being held to their own standards at their best which in return makes them look worse than they are. Guardiola in his 4 years only won once in the Mestalla, a narrow 1-0 and that was due to Valencia having a perfectly legal goal disallowed for offside. Yesterday Barca won in the Mestalla despite having a perfectly legal Suarez goal disallowed for offside. Some perspective. Yet to hit any sort of form collectively. At some point they will figure it out though, Iniesta will return from injury and play to his potential and Suarez will find his groove. It's inevitable. Will it result in trophies? Who knows, there are no guarantees when competing against Real Madrid in all competitions.
The lack of young in-form Xavi is compensated by Rakitic who's also very good albeit obviously not as good and superior force up front. They should be able to keep the ball well with Rakitic, Iniesta, Busquets and Mascherano.
Puyol hasn't been replaced but it's not like their defence has been the issue so far. Mathieu and Mascherano have both done well, Pique is still there but he's not been at his best at all.
I'd say that Neymar and Suarez up front more than compensate for decline in quality between Xavi then and Rakitic now and Puyol and Mathieu.
Then you are immensely underrating Xavi. The gulf in class between Xavi and Rakitic is apparent. In fact even with 35 Xavi looks the better player in possession and gets to start ahead of Rakitic in pressure game. Notice that Enrique has no bias towards Xavi, the opposite was rumoured to be the case when Xavi looked like leaving in the summer. Enrique told Xavi before the season kicked off that his minutes would be limited which they are, yet in the biggest games he can't live without Xavi.
Rakitic's touch is quite heavy for a Barca player. When he receives the ball between the lines he immediately passes it back instead of receiving, turning and playing a forward pass. His vision for the final ball as well as passing between the lines from deeper positions is incompareable to what Xavi offered in his prime. I'd classify Rakitic as a very good player who is just that 1 level below the starting material of elite teams like Barca, Madrid, Bayern and Co. It's as if Keita would be Barca's starting midfielder from 08 - 12 instead of Xavi. Simply incompareable. Having Suarez upfront certainly doesn't fix that.
Barca's main problem remains the lack of a proper Xavi replacement. If they had that one dominating central midfielder who can control games everything else would fall into place. New Xavis don't grow on trees however.
Rakitic's touch is quite heavy for a Barca player. When he receives the ball between the lines he immediately passes it back instead of receiving, turning and playing a forward pass. His vision for the final ball as well as passing between the lines from deeper positions is incompareable to what Xavi offered in his prime. I'd classify Rakitic as a very good player who is just that 1 level below the starting material of elite teams like Barca, Madrid, Bayern and Co. It's as if Keita would be Barca's starting midfielder from 08 - 12 instead of Xavi. Simply incompareable. Having Suarez upfront certainly doesn't fix that.
Barca's main problem remains the lack of a proper Xavi replacement. If they had that one dominating central midfielder who can control games everything else would fall into place. New Xavis don't grow on trees however.
I think saying he's at Keita's level is too harsh on Rakitić but yeah I agree with this. Rakitić looks like a good player for Barcelona, and I think he'll get better as he adapts, but he's probably not going to get close to a peak Xavi.
To be honest I don't think there's even an upgrade in the front 3 either. Not yet at least - Suárez and Neymar are both brilliant, and better individually than Pedro and Villa, but the latter two performed their roles really well. Better to judge once Suárez gets a proper role.
Depends how one rates Keita I guess. I rate him as a versatile player who could play all 3 midfield positions or out wide (from where he scored a hattrick if my memory doesn't trick me), offered some physicality, chipped in with goals from midfield and didn't do much wrong but also didn't offer any special creative spark. That's basically Rakitic for me. Rakitic has yet to register an assist in all competitions and even the looser "key pass" statistic (passes that lead to shots at goal) doesn't favour him (1.1 per game, current Xavi 1.6, prime Xavi > 3). Watch him against APOEL. He overhit every single one of his long diagonals. At Sevilla his final ball mostly stood out in terms of set piece delivery and crosses. Wrong type of midfielder for Barca apart from his workrate off the ball and tactical understanding. He might adapt and find his feet in a way that he won't be a liability but don't expect him to ping passes around, create chances for fun and never lose the ball. Which was Xavi. And Rakitic is several levels below Xavi. And consequently so is Barca's midfield now compared to a few years ago.
I don't need to say anything else.
Good for you. Shut up then.
Valencia released a statement saying that they will ban the person who threw the bottle for life once he's identified.
Great posts. Without Xavi at his best, Barcelona are forced to play direct and be strong in defence (another clean sheet yesterday) and they have done both well so far and I feel they will improve as the season goes on. For all the whining and complaining about Luis Enrique from Barcelona fans and blaming all of their woes on him, he is doing a pretty good job so far with what he has and is grinding out results and they are only two points behind Madrid (who are receiving lots of praise and are considered to be the best team in the world atm along with Bayern) right now and like I said before I feel they have plenty of room for improvement (Suarez is only going to get better and better and become more fluid with Messi and Neymar and that will help them both improve too). Despite their being better and bigger name managers around I cannot think of one who would be guaranteed to have done better than they have so far. Even Mourinho did not have the best of times last season when he took over Chelsea when they had some big weaknesses that were not addressed (strikers in Chelsea's case) and as for Guardiola, while Barcelona's midfield has quality and is good it is below the standard of all of the midfields that he has coached so far and there is no guarantee he would make thing work. There are still questions over whether Enrique is the right man for Barcelona but right now I think he is doing well in his current situation and I feel they will still be in with a chance of winning the league or CL come May.
Matchday 14 - 6 Dec: A tale of two hattricks
This weekend's Liga.
Saturday 6th December 2014 (from the BBC, so all times are UK)
Elche V Atl Madrid 15:00
Ath Bilbao V Córdoba17:00
Real Madrid V Celta de Vigo 19:00
Deportivo de La Coruña V Málaga 21:00
Sunday 7th December 2014
Rayo Vallecano V Sevilla 11:00
Barcelona V Espanyol 16:00
Villarreal V Real Sociedad 18:00
Granada CF V Valencia 20:00
Monday 8th December 2014
Eibar V Almería 16:00
Levante V Getafe 18:00
Madrid's winning run continues and it's hard to see Celta changing that. Isco's red card last week means Illarra should start.
Elche at home can trouble even big teams, but they don't seem to have it in them this year, so Atletico should be OK.
The Barcelona derby can always throw up a shock, but that's unlikely to happen at the Camp Nou. Despite the criticism the team and Enrique have faced they are only two points behind Madrid. In fact Barca will be top of La Liga for the Christmas break if they win their next three Liga games as Madrid's match with Sevilla won't take place until the new year.
Villareal Vs Real Sociedad has a certain interest for Moyes-watchers. The two clubs are very similar in terms of status, similar wagebills (7th and 8th largest in La Liga), and strong youth structures. Very much the kind of teams that bounce around the European places in a normal year. I don't see them getting much out of Villareal at home, but being "tough to beat" could be a good thing for Real.
Incidentally, Getafe's Pedro Leon is finally back in action. La Liga finally agreed a new budget with Getafe and he's allowed to play again. He played well against Eibar in the Copa last week, so I would think he's been welcomed back by his manager (if not the club's owner). The background is in:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lig...d-and-pedro-leon-cant-play-for-getafe.396940/
Saturday 6th December 2014 (from the BBC, so all times are UK)
Elche V Atl Madrid 15:00
Ath Bilbao V Córdoba17:00
Real Madrid V Celta de Vigo 19:00
Deportivo de La Coruña V Málaga 21:00
Sunday 7th December 2014
Rayo Vallecano V Sevilla 11:00
Barcelona V Espanyol 16:00
Villarreal V Real Sociedad 18:00
Granada CF V Valencia 20:00
Monday 8th December 2014
Eibar V Almería 16:00
Levante V Getafe 18:00
Madrid's winning run continues and it's hard to see Celta changing that. Isco's red card last week means Illarra should start.
Elche at home can trouble even big teams, but they don't seem to have it in them this year, so Atletico should be OK.
The Barcelona derby can always throw up a shock, but that's unlikely to happen at the Camp Nou. Despite the criticism the team and Enrique have faced they are only two points behind Madrid. In fact Barca will be top of La Liga for the Christmas break if they win their next three Liga games as Madrid's match with Sevilla won't take place until the new year.
Villareal Vs Real Sociedad has a certain interest for Moyes-watchers. The two clubs are very similar in terms of status, similar wagebills (7th and 8th largest in La Liga), and strong youth structures. Very much the kind of teams that bounce around the European places in a normal year. I don't see them getting much out of Villareal at home, but being "tough to beat" could be a good thing for Real.
Incidentally, Getafe's Pedro Leon is finally back in action. La Liga finally agreed a new budget with Getafe and he's allowed to play again. He played well against Eibar in the Copa last week, so I would think he's been welcomed back by his manager (if not the club's owner). The background is in:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lig...d-and-pedro-leon-cant-play-for-getafe.396940/
Messi also had his yellow card rescinded upon appeal. Spanish FA are morons
Rescinding the yellow card was the right decision, I don't see how that makes them morons.
... I know. The first appeal was rejected before the RFEF rescinded it upon second appeal.
It was moronic to tell Barcelona it was going to stand in the first place when it was quite clear what had happened.
anyone watching real madrid - celta?
On channel hop.
ronaldo out jumping the celta defenders by half a meter
nice try ronaldo, would have been a cracking goal
Great dive from Penaldo there to win yet another penalty.
The overhead? Yeah, would have been nice.
So many corners today, so little on target.
Penalty for nothing now. 1-0
what ronaldo did there is a disgrace
and he scores
ronaldo fanbois, dont come asking why people doesnt like him
and he scores
ronaldo fanbois, dont come asking why people doesnt like him
Embarrassing.
How many penaldo's is that now for Real this season? Must be pushing 15.
He'll never change. Guys nearly 30 and still has the haircut of a 12 year old. One said of his game I always wished he'd cut out.
at home, playing better, with an excellent team and he dives
how unnecesary
how unnecesary
At first I was thinking what a stupid penalty to give away as Ronaldo was not getting to that ball but after seeing the replay it was a clear dive from Ronaldo.
Ridiculous how Madrid keep on getting cheap penalties.