Assuming they haven't killed themselves due their uninformed shame or gender/sex based bullying by uninformed peers. Or just had their mental health seriously and unnecesarily damaged by then.Final point on this topic. Nothing wrong from a moral or romantic perspective, but there are some negatives and downsides they will endure such as not being able to naturally conceive children with the one they love or higher risk of HIV (for a male).
Now if by the time they hit puberty they have struggled with a particular gender identity and tested it as far as it can and definitely want to change gender or date someone of the game gender - then fair play and fully in support of that choice. They clearly have gone through the range of emotions and reached the conclusion that they are gay etc.
What a really odd thing to say.Had a friend who came out and despite him being relieved he could finally form a romantic relationship after a while the whole family aspect to it and even the sexual began to depress him.. he clearly had feelings for guys but the thought of not being able to properly have a family from a biological standpoint was a issue for him despite there being alternatives such as surrogacy and adoption. Likewise the thought of never really being able to enjoy unprotected sex without in the back of his mind having the higher susceptibility to STD also worried him.
I just don’t think we should interfere with that process too early as at the moment scientifically we can’t really 100% determine what impacts an individuals sexuality. Nor do I agree with leaving it to parents altogether and not teaching kids about LGBT at all. All I’m asking for is some compromise between different cultures and values. At the moment there are two schools of extreme thought .. your religious zealots who are totally against LGBT teaching in any form and at any age and the super liberal western imperialists like in this thread who are happy for their kids to cross dress aged
3 and watch porn at 7 because they’ll come across it anyway.
We’re talking about Western country education, those religious zealots can’t enforce the very extreme of their opinions in the West - thankfully.If you're going to use the extremes as examples at least do it fairly. On the one side it would be people who want homosexuality to be illegal, or worse.
Raees holds that position too, you don't seem to comprehend really well do you?If it’s a superiority complex to believe that gay people shouldn’t be put to death by the state for being gay then so be it.
If you can't even recognise that gender identity is a huge concept for a 4/5 year old then you're looking at this from a very narrow view of an adult. Children start to learn a simple sense of self-identify at around age 4, they do not need to start contemplating whether they're actually a boy or a girl and neither do you need to trigger other 4/5 year olds to start labelling others in that way via bullying. You teach equality and acceptance in broad strokes and thats enough.What grenade? And what has being transgender got to do with morality? Kids will only give a shit if they are trained to do so by adults and society.
Yes if they cross dress they do it innocently as just a part of fun whereas now it would be seen as hey do you want to be a girl instead of a boy and confusing the child and putting transgender ideas across into a child who hasn’t had the chance to grasp who they are just yet.Assuming they haven't killed themselves due their uninformed shame or gender/sex based bullying by uninformed peers. Or just had their mental health seriously and unnecesarily damaged by then.
What a really odd thing to say.
Kids cross dress all the time as a part of play. And literally nobody apart from paedos think 7 years olds should watch porn.
This thread is about school kids being made aware that there are a range of sexualities and gender identities. That is it.
Raees thinks it is a racial superiority complex.Raees holds that position too, you don't seem to comprehend really well do you?
Agree with this, my son is almost 6 and he never mentions or talks about gender, I doubt it even crosses his mind.If you can't even recognise that gender identity is a huge concept for a 4/5 year old then you're looking at this from a very narrow view of an adult. Children start to learn a simple sense of self-identify at around age 4, they do not need to start contemplating whether they're actually a boy or a girl and neither do you need to trigger other 4/5 year olds to start labelling others in that way via bullying. You teach equality and acceptance in broad strokes and thats enough.
You're looking at this from an adult viewpoint of well it's fine so it must also be okay to tell kids that, thats very simplistic and doesnt weigh whether there's actually a benefit there. When a kid is around 8-10 or when they start to show interest in the subject is when you engage.
Why bring up kids cross dressing then, and porn?We’re talking about Western country education, those religious zealots can’t enforce the very extreme of their opinions in the West - thankfully.
I've seen you do this a few times, get called out for your BS then change the direction of the discussion. You were taking about state executions for homosexuals, even though he pretty much said he doesn't agree with it. Don't know why you keep banging on about it.Raees thinks it is a racial superiority complex.
You clearly know very little about religion and theology and have a very narrow minded view with which you view it.What is more damaging to a child, being told people can sometimes be born into the wrong bodies, or telling children (as religious schools and churches do) that if you commit sin or any other number of things that you are potentially facing a lifetime of hell and torture?
What BS? Raees took it to an extreme by suggesting we want kids to cross dress at 3 and watch porn at 7.I've seen you do this a few times, get called out for your BS then change the direction of the discussion. You were taking about state executions for homosexuals, even though he pretty much said he doesn't agree with it. Don't know why you keep banging on about it.
So people aren't taught at faith schools that if they do not obey God and they commit sin they will go to hell? I certainly was.You clearly know very little about religion and theology and have a very narrow minded view with which you view it.
Only an adult can turn it in to such a big deal. We told my son about such things at 4 or 5 and he shrugged and carried on being a kid. Albeit an informed kid because we did it in a low key and age appropriate level. You know what the result was? He had enough information to ask more when he wanted to later in life. He has also turned into a wonderfully accepting adult who accepts everyone for who they are without worrying.If you can't even recognise that gender identity is a huge concept for a 4/5 year old then you're looking at this from a very narrow view of an adult. Children start to learn a simple sense of self-identify at around age 4, they do not need to start contemplating whether they're actually a boy or a girl and neither do you need to trigger other 4/5 year olds to start labelling others in that way via bullying. You teach equality and acceptance in broad strokes and thats enough.
You're looking at this from an adult viewpoint of well it's fine so it must also be okay to tell kids that, thats very simplistic and doesnt weigh whether there's actually a benefit there. When a kid is around 8-10 or when they start to show interest in the subject is when you engage.
YepSo people aren't taught at faith schools that if they do not obey God and they commit sin they will go to hell? I certainly was.
Again nothing to do with the original point.What BS? Raees took it to an extreme by suggesting we want kids to cross dress at 3 and watch porn at 7.
Love the random addition of people burning in hell because I dared question liberal objective morality.A society that doesn't think gay people will burn for all eternity in hell perhaps?
What original point are you referring to?Again nothing to do with the original point.
Not sure which religion you followed, but they may well do.So people aren't taught at faith schools that if they do not obey God and they commit sin they will go to hell? I certainly was.
How will you know if you don't talk to him about it? Kids are sponges and they absorb all sorts of things you won't know. And it isn't neccesarily about it crossing their mind, it is about giving them a little bit of age appropriate information.Agree with this, my son is almost 6 and he never mentions or talks about gender, I doubt it even crosses his mind.
I didn't follow any personally, but I had to go to a Catholic School. As such we were taught the teachings, dumbed down because we were kids.Not sure which religion you followed, but they may well do.
Religion is also a lot more complex than do good go to heaven, do bad go to hell.
Crossdressing does not make someone gay, nor does it make them transgender and finally it isn't even something to be ashamed of which you're alluding to. Clothes are a social construct, a boy in a dress does not make them any less of a boy. Who wouldn't be happy for their child to crossdress if they wanted? What's the big deal?and the super liberal western imperialists like in this thread who are happy for their kids to cross dress aged
3 and watch porn at 7 because they’ll come across it anyway.
Wow, confiusing gender, a social construct which should be challenged, with being gay, an entirely natural instinct which nobody can do anything about, just shows ignorance. Wearing a dress does not make someone gay just like wearing trousers doesn't.Now if by the time they hit puberty they have struggled with a particular gender identity and tested it as far as it can and definitely want to change gender or date someone of the game gender - then fair play and fully in support of that choice. They clearly have gone through the range of emotions and reached the conclusion that they are gay etc.
That is quite literally what many religions teach. It sure was at my schools. And many religions have some sort of supernatural punishment at their core.Love the random addition of people burning in hell because I dared question liberal objective morality.
Liberalism has no objective morality, if tomorrow the norm in society was for child and an adult to love each other and those relationships became okay with no harm, there is nothing within liberalism to stop that. It changes with the wind.
To be honest I don't see the need to tell him these things, whether it be about genders or religion at this stage. At the moment he's struggling to connect phonetics I'd rather focus on things like that than religion or sexuality which isn't the most simple subject to understand at that age.How will you know if you don't talk to him about it? Kids are sponges and they absorb all sorts of things you won't know. And it isn't neccesarily about it crossing their mind, it is about giving them a little bit of age appropriate information.
You never hear religious people, often the same people who don't want such lessons to occur, say that we shouldn't discuss god/religion until the kid mentions it post puberty when they have had a chance to think about it.
Regardless, yes asking a 4 year old to think about whether he's a boy or girl is a lot more damaging than religion.I didn't follow any personally, but I had to go to a Catholic School. As such we were taught the teachings, dumbed down because we were kids.
Of course there is more to it, but at its core it is believe in your god and do as he commands or you'll face an eternity of hell.
I think your search will forever be forlorn, given men and women's different body shapes.I have yet to find a man who has an arse as nice as some women.
Regardless, yes asking a 4 year old to think about whether he's a boy or girl is a lot more damaging than religion.
For one as 4 year old in most faiths, they're not asked to keep to "rules" of the faith because they're a child.
Yeah it's just racism, we're all totally on board with the US Evangelicals who promote anti-homosexuality in Uganda or picket abortion clinics at home. The Westboro Baptist Church are our favourites, just look at how white they all are.Like I said that is your racial superiority complex coming through. You think it’s ‘better’ - personally speaking I think both are wrong and manipulative. I wouldn’t want either teaching my child as they’re both preaching and pushing agendas.
Many years to late. Leave it that late and he will already absorbed all sorts of misinformation. Which is why doing it at school is a great idea.To be honest I don't see the need to tell him these things, whether it be about genders or religion at this stage. At the moment he's struggling to connect phonetics I'd rather focus on things like that than religion or sexuality which isn't the most simple subject to understand at that age.
When it comes to a stage where he understands what laws are and what the equality act is I'm all for giving him the appropriate information about all of the protected characteristics.
Do you have any evidence for that?Many years to late. Leave it that late and he will already absorbed all sorts of misinformation. Which is why doing it at school is a great idea.
I'm not denying the concept of heaven and hell exist in some faiths.That is quite literally what many religions teach. It sure was at my schools. And many religions have some sort of supernatural punishment at their core.
I think we're at crossed purposes, I'm not suggesting ignoring the very concept. As i said to the other LGBT initial post there's a difference between saying some kids have two mummys and daddys (which kids just accept without thought) because they will come across this and a class room based discussion which touches on their possible gender and sexuality. How anyone would object to the former i have no idea it's only the latter i disagree with.Only an adult can turn it in to such a big deal. We told my son about such things at 4 or 5 and he shrugged and carried on being a kid. Albeit an informed kid because we did it in a low key and age appropriate level. You know what the result was? He had enough information to ask more when he wanted to later in life. He has also turned into a wonderfully accepting adult who accepts everyone for who they are without worrying.
Because there are still large sections of society which are religious, and their religion teaches them that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin, thus we end up in a situation like we are today where there are protests outside schools from a bunch of fanatics who don't want their children knowing that there are different relationships present in 21st century Britain.Religion has sin for believers. Not sure why this bothers non believers so much? If you don't believe in God , then why do you care if it's a sin? In secular society, it matters little as these sins don't impact individuals outside of those within the community.
What views? That sodomy is a sin? For all types of relationships, hetro or non hetro.How did you form your views on non-heterosexual people?
What views? That sodomy is a sin? For all types of relationships, hetro or non hetro.
Not sure what relevance it has in secular society.
I'm not quite sure how accurate what you have read is. Though in truth I am not familiar with what modern sex education entails. You can however withdraw your child from sex education, even after September 2020. So that isn't really an issue. Sex Ed in my day was basically how to use a condom, with kids struggling to contain their laughter (Think this was in Year 6, so I'd have been 10 or 11). I didn't find it very helpful at all. As a child/teenager however, I did have immense feelings of guilt when I first started masturbating. Being told this is a normal part of growing up and a normal thing to do wouldn't be damaging at all, it would be the opposite.If you're a secular facist who hates religion, please don't bother engaging me, I don't value your opinion.
I've been following this closely, especially as I'm Muslim and I have young kids. The concern is widespread amongst the Muslim community and it isn't an anti-Gay thing, it's about age appropriateness and the appropriateness of the wider content.
For example, I've read that they're proposing to teach children about the mechanics of sexual relationships. What masturbation is, what different sexual acts are. You don't need to be taught that in a class room, it certainly doesn't need to be mandatory. Furthermore there is no clear indication at what age such content will be taught.
Something else i've read is that children will be taught about the different ways people can indentify their gender as (other than the biological male and female), again with young children will only be confused by this. I think it's important to teach teenagers about this, but no 7 year old needs to know that some people transition genders or are non binary or whatever. They can't really get their head around it.
Similarly i've seen pre-school age books exlaining gay relationships to children. There is nothing wrong with children being around gay people, or even gay people having children, but i don't think it's something a 5 year old should be taught. At an older age, defintely.
Then there are other things you read about, like schools banning skirts, or a school near me now has mixed gender toilets. Girls aren't using those toilets at school now because they don't want to be in the same toilets as boys. I've seen these with my own eyes - so i know it's not a tabloid lie.
The bottom line is, i don't trust government or schools to deliver the content in an age/culturally appropriate manner, and the secrecy they all have about what content they'll deliver and to whom, makes it even worse.
I suspect it's a storm in a tea cup and when it's mandatory and rolled out in Sept 2020, we'll find it's quite sensible and age appropriate - but when you read about some of this more extreme stuff, and you get radio silence from the schools - it worries you.
Homosexual acts are a sin for a believer yes. For non believers they are not bound by religious rules.Because there are still large sections of society which are religious, and their religion teaches them that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin, thus we end up in a situation like we are today where there are protests outside schools from a bunch of fanatics who don't want their children knowing that there are different relationships present in 21st century Britain.
And in the wider world, it is the reason why there are still as many as 70 countries where same-sex relations are criminalised.
Through study of theology.I just want to know how you formed your views. Who taught you what you believe?
