[Revan]

Woah. Have to say that stat is surprising.

Although there’s absolutely no doubt that Martinez + 1, is our best central defensive pairing.

Varane +1.

Even Shaw who is not a CB made a good partnership with Varane. Varane is just a wonderful CB.

I think though that Varane + Martinez is easily our best partnership, followed by Varane + Shaw. I am also quite comfortable with Lisandro + Lindelof although they are a bit too weak.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Varane +1.

Even Shaw who is not a CB made a good partnership with Varane. Varane is just a wonderful CB.

I think though that Varane + Martinez is easily our best partnership, followed by Varane + Shaw. I am also quite comfortable with Lisandro + Lindelof although they are a bit too weak.

Any partnership which doesn’t feature Martinez is lacking in terms of his ability on the ball. Vertical passing in particular. Swapping him out probably doesn’t make a huge difference to our defending (especially if Varane still involved) but we definitely lack something going forwards.

 

[Ish]

I am convinced he's never going to the "top" defender we always craved for. I think his mentality is pretty good, but beyond that his technique is okayish and physique is grossly inadequate for the PL..

some just cannot wait for any opportunity to vindicate a notion they’ve had from the very start, even if it’s 1 calamitous team performance. Yeah, let’s lay into him because of 1 match and forget the rest of the season to this point.

 

[TMDaines]

If you can’t see what difference he has made, discussing football is probably a waste of time.

He makes an obvious difference on the ball, that’s apparent.

He defends tenaciously, but it’s not as if we are any harder to now score against. Our defensive record is worse than last season.

 

[Lee565]

Yay! it took a further 35 games for Martinez to have a bad game but Carragher has now been proved 100% correct. The top pundits in the country can now celebrate, congratulations to them for waiting so long.

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I'm guessing the same applies to van dijk seeing as he was in defence when liverpool got thrashed by Brighton and real madrid, maybe martinez and dijk should be the cb pairing for worse team of the season by his overreactive logic

 

[TMDaines]

Ok, then let me put it in a different way. A blind man could tell you that individually; Varane and Martínez are levels beyond what Maguire and Lindelof are. It’s a chasm of difference

People seem to be attributing a lot of credit to a Varane-Martinez for this run of good results, but in reality results have been no worse, if not better, with other CB pairings.

Varane doesn’t play half the games as he’s unavailable, and when Martinez hasn’t played since the World Cup, he hasn’t been missed: we’ve won every game without him, apart from the draw at the Nou Camp that everyone agreed was an excellent performance.

I like Martinez. I enjoy chanting “Argentina” at him and see him fist pumping the crowd, but I don’t see this gulf that others do to our other defensive options. Results and performances aren’t bearing it out either.

 

[redcucumber]

Right after the game he created a thread poll - Would Real Madrid manager survive this, then created a thread about supposedly beating by a rival not meaning something to the fans who are calm and zen about it. Mental.

complete fanny.

 

[redcucumber]

People seem to be attributing a lot of credit to a Varane-Martinez for this run of good results, but in reality results have been no worse, if not better, with other CB pairings.

Varane doesn’t play half the games as he’s unavailable, and when Martinez hasn’t played since the World Cup, he hasn’t been missed: we’ve won every game without him, apart from the draw at the Nou Camp that everyone agreed was an excellent performance.

I like Martinez. I enjoy chanting “Argentina” at him and see him fist pumping the crowd, but I don’t see this gulf that others do to our other defensive options. Results and performances aren’t bearing it out either.

Wtf? The results and performances with Varane and Martinez are patently a lot fecking better than the Maguire - Lindelof axis. Have people actually lost their minds or something?

 

[TMDaines]

Wtf? The results and performances with Varane and Martinez are patently a lot fecking better than [other] axis. Have people actually lost their minds or something?

They really aren’t. We’ve been winning a lot of football matches with one or more of Shaw, Lindelöf and Maguire at centre back.

 

[Real Name]

People seem to be attributing a lot of credit to a Varane-Martinez for this run of good results, but in reality results have been no worse, if not better, with other CB pairings.

Varane doesn’t play half the games as he’s unavailable, and when Martinez hasn’t played since the World Cup, he hasn’t been missed: we’ve won every game without him, apart from the draw at the Nou Camp that everyone agreed was an excellent performance.

I like Martinez. I enjoy chanting “Argentina” at him and see him fist pumping the crowd, but I don’t see this gulf that others do to our other defensive options. Results and performances aren’t bearing it out either.

So your argument is what, few games after World cup and apparently half the games Varane hasnt played.
So going by your logic it doesnt really matter what the CB pair is?

This place is incredible sometimes. Some posters are no different than Carragher.

 

[Chief123]

He makes an obvious difference on the ball, that’s apparent.

He defends tenaciously, but it’s not as if we are any harder to now score against. Our defensive record is worse than last season.

You really are losing yourself in your own confusion.

By your understanding, we would be no worse off by replacing Martinez with Maguire or Lindelof. In fact, you seem to think we’d actually be better. Mind boggling.

You bizarrely state our defensive record is worse than last season while in the same breath state that Varane isn’t available for half the games. I mean which one is it mate? How are you struggling to see Martinez and Varane are our best defensive pairing by a significant margin.

 

[bosnian_red]

While Romero is, hmm 24.

To be fair, I think both are roughly in the same level, very good CBs, but below best CBs in the league like Van Dijk, Varane, Silva, Saliba.

Romero isn't old but he's been playing at a higher level for longer! And you'd be way too small with Martinez and otamendi. It's just the reason otamendi is in.

Martinez is well on his way IMO. Think he's remarkably well rounded as a CB and that he's class.

 

[TMDaines]

You really are losing yourself in your own confusion.

By your understanding, we would be no worse off by replacing Martinez with Maguire or Lindelof. In fact, you seem to think we’d actually be better. Mind boggling.

What is it that you think I am confused about? We’ve won 30 games this season and Varane-Martinez were the starting centre backs for only 10 of those games.

How do you want to spin this? We win a lot of football matches when one of Martinez and Varane don’t play. Their importance simply is not being being borne out by results at this time.

That’s not to say that they aren’t or shouldn’t be our first choice pairing still.

 

[bosnian_red]

He makes an obvious difference on the ball, that’s apparent.

He defends tenaciously, but it’s not as if we are any harder to now score against. Our defensive record is worse than last season.

Think it's pretty obvious that the total goal stats are pretty skewed by a few games. We're third in clean sheets in the league. You can't ignore the bad games but they obviously throw off the numbers and show something very different to clean sheets which is showing that we consistently are very hard to score against.... Most of the time.

 

[tenpoless]

Yay! it took a further 35 games for Martinez to have a bad game but Carragher has now been proved 100% correct. The top pundits in the country can now celebrate, congratulations to them for waiting so long.

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7-2 against Van Dick, TAA, Gobshite Robertson. All while they had 70% possession and "won" the league. Memory of a goldfish. Bad days happen.

 

[TMDaines]

Think it's pretty obvious that the total goal stats are pretty skewed by a few games. We're third in clean sheets in the league. You can't ignore the bad games but they obviously throw off the numbers and show something very different to clean sheets which is showing that we consistently are very hard to score against.... Most of the time.

Yep, that’s a fair point re: clean sheets. Although we did get some spankings last season too to skew the goals conceded last season too.

 

[IFC 1905]

While Romero is, hmm 24.

To be fair, I think both are roughly in the same level, very good CBs, but below best CBs in the league like Van Dijk, Varane, Silva, Saliba.

Dude, Romero plays RCB. Martinez plays LCB.

In fact, the ideal pairing is both playing together. Otamendi has been the main LCB due to his experience and the respect for his career. He's done an amazing World Cup. But that's it. Surely Lisandro will be the starting CB for the next WCQ

 

[golden_blunder]

People seem to be attributing a lot of credit to a Varane-Martinez for this run of good results, but in reality results have been no worse, if not better, with other CB pairings.

Varane doesn’t play half the games as he’s unavailable, and when Martinez hasn’t played since the World Cup, he hasn’t been missed: we’ve won every game without him, apart from the draw at the Nou Camp that everyone agreed was an excellent performance.

I like Martinez. I enjoy chanting “Argentina” at him and see him fist pumping the crowd, but I don’t see this gulf that others do to our other defensive options. Results and performances aren’t bearing it out either.

Do you think individually maguire and Lindelof are on the same level as the other 2 then?

 

[TheLord]

some just cannot wait for any opportunity to vindicate a notion they’ve had from the very start, even if it’s 1 calamitous team performance. Yeah, let’s lay into him because of 1 match and forget the rest of the season to this point.

I don't know what's vindictive when someone says Lisandro Martinez is not world class! Of course, criticisms come in after bad performances. That's the very nature of "criticism".

Some people can't take any criticism, quite funny that.

 

[TheLord]

He’s gone from arguably the best defender in the league this season to not being suitable for the Premier league again.

Not world class is not the same thing as not fit for the Premier League.

Funny that there are so many on here who use hyperbole in almost every post.

 

[Chief123]

Not world class is not the same thing as not fit for the Premier League.

Funny that there are so many on here who use hyperbole in almost every post.

Have you completely forgotten what you posted? You’ve literally stated his attributes are inadequate for the Premier league. That’s not hyperbole.

 

[Ish]

I don't know what's vindictive when someone says Lisandro Martinez is not world class! Of course, criticisms come in after bad performances. That's the very nature of "criticism".

Some people can't take any criticism, quite funny that.

Who's unable to take criticism? He, along with the rest of the team had a shocking performance.

Your exact words weren't even talking about world class (or however you define it). You said "he'll never be a top defender"....and that's exactly what he's been and done all season - he's been a top defender and one game all of a sudden changes that? Funny that, indeed.

 

[Cpl Hicks]

This sort of reminds me of Vidic, IMO one of the best we've had but deary me did he turn to shite when Torres was on the pitch.

 

[A-man]

Woah. Have to say that stat is surprising.

Although there’s absolutely no doubt that Martinez + 1, is our best central defensive pairing.

Yes it’s a bit surprising but they have not had much impact as a pair, more as individuals.

If we look at PL, they started well with 4 straight wins but then came the City debacle and interrupted. After the WC they have 1 win, 2 draws, 2 losses and 7-14* goal diff in the PL matches they played together. Could be coincidence but I don’t think they look as solid as in September.

I wouldn’t say Martinez +1. Martinez and Maguire have been our worst CB pair imo. I also think Martinez-Lindelof have looked good together. Biggest impact seems however to be from Casemiro.

There will probably be some new constellations now after the Liverpool meltdown plus rumours are that Varane and Casemiro might be injured.

(*2 goals could be removed since Martinez was subbed)

 

[TMDaines]

Do you think individually maguire and Lindelof are on the same level as the other 2 then?

Tough question and a loaded one at that. Put it this way, we have been crying out for a top class holding midfielder for years, all the way back to Smalling, Blind and Jones. Until Casemiro came in, any of the centre backs we fielded over the years have faced a difficult task, as all our midfielders have generally been box-to-box or ball-winning midfielders, which has left us porous centrally.

People would have a lot higher opinion of Maguire, Lindelöf and our previous centre backs if they had benefitted from Casemiro or another bonafide holding midfielder screening them the whole time.

We’ve got some good depth in that position, hence why Martinez and/or Varane missing out hasn’t hurt our results much, if at all.

 

[golden_blunder]

Tough question and a loaded one at that. Put it this way, we have been crying out for a top class holding midfielder for years, all the way back to Smalling, Blind and Jones. Until Casemiro came in, any of the centre backs we fielded over the years have faced a difficult task, as all our midfielders have generally been box-to-box or ball-winning midfielders, which has left us porous centrally.

People would have a lot higher opinion of Maguire, Lindelöf and our previous centre backs if they had benefitted from Casemiro or another bonafide holding midfielder screening them the whole time.

We’ve got some good depth in that position, hence why Martinez and/or Varane missing out hasn’t hurt our results much, if at all.

Nice way to side step the question. Using your eyes, are Maguire and Lindelof at the same level?

 

[criticalanalysis]

Yes it’s a bit surprising but they have not had much impact as a pair, more as individuals.

If we look at PL, they started well with 4 straight wins but then came the City debacle and interrupted. After the WC they have 1 win, 2 draws, 2 losses and 7-14* goal diff in the PL matches they played together. Could be coincidence but I don’t think they look as solid as in September.

I wouldn’t say Martinez +1. Martinez and Maguire have been our worst CB pair imo. I also think Martinez-Lindelof have looked good together. Biggest impact seems however to be from Casemiro.

There will probably be some new constellations now after the Liverpool meltdown plus rumours are that Varane and Casemiro might be injured.

(*2 goals could be removed since Martinez was subbed)

Which games have they played together this season? That would give a fair representation on what this is based on.

I remember Martinez and Lindelof at Villa Park quite vividly. Lindelof going to 'press' all the way to the half way line and getting turned like butter comes to mind.

 

[TMDaines]

Nice way to side step the question. Using your eyes, are Maguire and Lindelof at the same level?

I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.

 

[redcucumber]

I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

I honestly cannot believe a United fan that you assume actually watches our games can have this opinion. Genuinely, it's the most baffling opinion I've come across on here in a long, long time.

 

[TMDaines]

I honestly cannot believe a United fan that you assume actually watches our games can have this opinion. Genuinely, it's the most baffling opinion I've come across on here in a long, long time.

He’s a good, talented player, but claims that he’s world class or one of the best centre backs in the league are far too hasty. We concede far too many goals still. He’s only been here for just over a season and has conceded 34 goals in his first 22 PL starts. We conceded 1 goal in the 5 league games he hasn’t started.

You can like and support a player, yet still be more sober in your assessment of him. I’m glad we signed him, but defensively we were still just as good, if not better, a few years ago, even without Casemiro anchoring the midfield.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I am convinced he's never going to the "top" defender we always craved for. I think his mentality is pretty good, but beyond that his technique is okayish and physique is grossly inadequate for the PL..

What technique do you mean?
His distribution is top class.

Physique not been a problem so far.

 

[golden_blunder]

He’s a good, talented player, but claims that he’s world class or one of the best centre backs in the league are far too hasty. We concede far too many goals still. He’s only been here for just over a season and has conceded 34 goals in his first 22 PL starts. We conceded 1 goal in the 5 league games he hasn’t started.

You can like and support a player, yet still be more sober in your assessment of him. I’m glad we signed him, but defensively we were still just as good, if not better, a few years ago, even without Casemiro anchoring the midfield.

In what world?

he might be smaller but surely you can see that he’s a step up in doing the basics of defending. His timing and aggression make up for his lack of height

 

[Chief123]

I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

This is your problem. With the greatest respect, you appear to be clueless.

 

[TheReligion]

I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.

What?!

 

[A-man]

Which games have they played together this season? That would give a fair representation on what this is based on.

I remember Martinez and Lindelof at Villa Park quite vividly. Lindelof going to 'press' all the way to the half way line and getting turned like butter comes to mind.

Lindelof -Martinez last match together was the 3-0 win against Leicester where they both played really well even though Casemiro was missing. The match you remember was last year, about four months ago and is the only match we lost with them as CB pair, all other 8 we have won.

Total summary Martinez-Lindelof:
8 wins
1 loss
5 clean sheets
19-7 goal diff

Includes 2-3 easy games in EL but they have looked good together imo.

And about being turned like butter, we just saw a total defensive collapse including Martinez being dribbled on to his arse, so a little weird timing to bring on those four months old memories.

 

[Andersonson]

Isnt our defensive stats better with Maguire?

 

[Irwin99]

I’m struggling to see on what basis Martinez can be categorically considered a “better” PL CB than Maguire or Lindelöf thus far. He’s simply done nothing to prove that, but that’s not to say he necessarily won’t over time. He’s clearly a good fit for ETH’s style of football, so I can see why the manager wanted him so much, but I don’t feel as if we are a better side defensively for his presence at this point.

Last season was simply a product of horrendous incompetence under Rangnick, where everyone’s confidence was at rock bottom. Familiarity has therefore bred contempt with some of players who have been here a while.

I think people forget that we were a very decent side under Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, even defensively so. We went on a massive undefeated streak away from home. We’ve already conceded 35 goals this season, yet only did 36 in total in 19/20. Maguire and Lindelöf were quite highly regarded at that time and were the partnership in defence that was better than the one we have now.

And Ole...horrendous incompetence from Rangnick and Ole last season. We shouldn't need to go into this again but we were not a 'very decent side' in 19/20. We squeezed into the top 4 within the last few games of the season with 66 points (just 6 more wins from our remaining 13 games this season will see us surpass that total). Second season was a lot better with 74 points but we still conceded 44 goals with Lindelof and Maguire. That isn't good.

I'd agree that there are balance issues in this team that means the defence hasn't been sorted yet but we look a FAR better team playing out from the back with Martinez and Varane and I'd argue they're better defenders. One thing I will add is that i actually thought Lindelof and Maguire were singled out too much last season when our full backs and midfield were just abject and often gave them no help. I would argue our full backs and midfield let us down more than our centre backs against Liverpool too.

 

[In Rainbows]

He’s a good, talented player, but claims that he’s world class or one of the best centre backs in the league are far too hasty. We concede far too many goals still. He’s only been here for just over a season and has conceded 34 goals in his first 22 PL starts. We conceded 1 goal in the 5 league games he hasn’t started.

You can like and support a player, yet still be more sober in your assessment of him. I’m glad we signed him, but defensively we were still just as good, if not better, a few years ago, even without Casemiro anchoring the midfield.

It's baffling because you watch our CBs as individuals all the time. You then use team statistics, which can be a great indicator for their actual performance. However, anyone that watches football knows that goals can happen without any CB being at fault. So goals conceded as a stat is not a good enough argument to conclude something. It can be, but that's not always the case.

When AWB loses his man at the far post, and they score, is that any of our CB's faults? When a midfielder makes a mistake (such as Eriksen), when playing out from the back, is that any CB's fault? Is it any CB's fault when the opposition has numbers against our CBs in a counter? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. How about that we're far more adventurous as a team than a Mourinho or Ole team? Yes, the way we set up has an effect on how many we concede. Isn't that one of the reasons why many on this very forum were asking the manager to close up shop after Liverpool were winning 4-0?

From watching them, it's pretty clear Varane and Martinez are better CBs than Maguire and Lindelof. I am quite confident they have been the reason for a goal conceded fewer times than Maguire and Lindelof.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Lindelof -Martinez last match together was the 3-0 win against Leicester where they both played really well even though Casemiro was missing. The match you remember was last year, about four months ago and is the only match we lost with them as CB pair, all other 8 we have won.

Total summary Martinez-Lindelof:
8 wins
1 loss
5 clean sheets
19-7 goal diff

Includes 2-3 easy games in EL but they have looked good together imo.

And about being turned like butter, we just saw a total defensive collapse including Martinez being dribbled on to his arse, so a little weird timing to bring on those four months old memories.

United 3 - 0 Leicester - PL - good
Forest 0 - 3 United - EFL Cup - good / poor opposition
Fulham 1 - 2 United - PL - meh - typically passive and weak for the goal but also made some vital blocks and interceptions.
Villa 3 - 1 United - PL - horrendous
Real Sociedad 0 - United 1 - Europa League - good
United 3 - 0 Sheriff - Europa League - good / poor opposition
United 1 - 0 - Omonoia - Europa League - poor / poor opposition
Everton 1 - 2 United - PL - good / poor opposition
Omonoia 2 - United 3 - Europa League poor / poor opposition

I did the work for you. This is what it means to look 'good' with Martinez and getting clean sheets i.e mostly against poor opposition teams that sat back. The reason why I remember a game from 4 months ago is because he's simply not started that many with Martinez and it was literally only their fourth game back. I'm also giving benefit of the doubt with a few of those 'good' comments because good to me, would mean he was fairly dominant, which wasn't really the case. Thus, I'm rating his performances as a third/fourth choice. That's not also taking into account that Martinez would have been the dominant one on and off the ball for most of those games.

Lindelof getting turned like butter or turning his back is a regular occurence over 5 years here. It happened to Martinez on Sunday and it'll happen again but that is the exception to the rule thus far this season; his high and low level far exceeds that of the Swede. It's a low bar to say but whilst it's nice to have a somewhat capable stand in, by no means does he look 'good' with Martinez, in what is an extremely small sample size and against low level quality.

This is why context matters.

It gives some people with an agenda to push narratives like some players have been performing good (in largely reduced roles) or why some people in this very thread justify insane comments like 'we're not really different defensively when you compare the stats to last year, so Lindelof/Maguire probably would have performed the same with Casemiro'.

 

[A-man]

United 3 - 0 Leicester - PL - good
Forest 0 - 3 United - EFL Cup - good / poor opposition
Fulham 1 - 2 United - PL - meh - typically passive and weak for the goal but also made some vital blocks and interceptions.
Villa 3 - 1 United - PL - horrendous
Real Sociedad 0 - United 1 - Europa League - good
United 3 - 0 Sheriff - Europa League - good / poor opposition
United 1 - 0 - Omonoia - Europa League - poor / poor opposition
Everton 1 - 2 United - PL - good / poor opposition
Omonoia 2 - United 3 - Europa League poor / poor opposition

I did the work for you. This is what it means to look 'good' with Martinez and getting clean sheets i.e mostly against poor opposition teams that sat back. The reason why I remember a game from 4 months ago is because he's simply not started that many with Martinez and it was literally only their fourth game back. I'm also giving benefit of the doubt with a few of those 'good' comments because good to me, would mean he was fairly dominant. In this case, I'm rating his performances as a third/fourth choice. That's not also taking into account that Martinez would have been the dominant one on and off the ball for most of those games.

Lindelof getting turned like butter or turning his back is a regular occurence over 5 years here. It happened to Martinez on Sunday and it'll happen again but that is the exception to the rule thus far this season; his high and low level far exceeds that of the Swede. It's a low bar to say but whilst it's nice to have a somewhat capable stand in, by no means does he look 'good' with Martinez, in what is an extremely small sample size and against low level quality.

This is why context matters.

It gives some people with an agenda to push narratives like some players have been performing good (in largely reduced roles) or why some people in this very thread justify insane comments like 'we're not really different defensively when you compare the stats to last year, so Lindelof/Maguire probably would have performed the same with Casemiro.

I don’t fully agree with your assessment, but fair enough, it’s subjective and I can agree with you more than I normally do... The point is that I’m not looking at this from a more pragmatic perspective, and therefore looking at it right now, what to do next after the Liverpool disaster. I'm not so focused on the first matches of the season, where Varane/Martinez looked good and solid and Martinez/Lindelof had their (1) lost game (plus the Omonia was poor). I’m comparing here and now and even if the sample size is small, I think that lately, Varane/Martinez haven’t been as solid anymore. Liverpool was of course the worst but also not as solid from game to game. This, plus Varane's fitness issues which make him a 1 game a week player makes me believe our best option is to alternate between those two CB pairs. I absolutely don't dislike Maguire, but he doesn't fit at all unfortunately and should mainly stand in for injuries, when Martinez needs to rest, or when we need to strengthen our aerial defence at the end of a game.


The second note. Adding Casemiro to the team has had a huge impact. The CBs no longer need to face forwards at full speed in 1v1 situation all the time. Situations where the CB risked to be dribbled, like Salah or Antonio coming at Martinez in our last two games, those situations were standard before Casemiro joined.