Are you joking? The answer is of course yes. Liverpool only sign players which the big clubs have passed on. All the above Liverpool players you mentioned were passed on for one reason or another. Klopp has done well to mould them into a passable side but it will be really difficult to win anything with an entire team of rejects. This isn't an insult it's just the facts.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
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I'm not sure what we're even debating. United is the bigger club and capable of bringing in bigger names. But "of course yes"?
Yes what? Are ADM, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Ibrahimovic, Martial better buys than Coutinho, Salah, Mane, VVD and Firmino?
So you agree United are the biggest and most attractive club in England and one of the biggest and most attractive in the world?
That's fine then.
He said United haven't attracted more quality than Liverpool of late. I'd disagree.
Although the move might not have worked out for some theres no denying that Di Maria, Falcao, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Bailly, Matic, Lukaku, Martial are top quality players.
To suggest that Mane, Firmino, Salah, VVD etc are a level of quality above is absolutely ridiculous.
Repeating the question ad infinitum doesn't change the answer. The answer is of course, yes. If you want to win trophies which is what we want then you buy the best that money can buy. We don't care about resale value. Of course Liverpool seem more interested in making money from player sales so buying cheap and slightly "damaged" players that have some upside is a good profit making strategy. Now vvd isn't cheap by any means but he was bought to mollify your fans with the coutinho money. He is however "damaged", he is very good on the ball but is defensively suspect and isn't the quickest.
There is a a lot of circular logic going on here. Buying the most attractive players does not equal buying the best players.
True, and also who determines who is a quality signing? Fans, Stats, Trophies, Pundits??
All of the Manchester United players he mentions there except for Martial were also "passed on" by big clubs for one reason or another.
This is clearly true. At the top of their game it is highly unlikely any of these players would choose Liverpool over United (and more money). However it would also appear to be true that we have a better manager/coaching team because it seems to me all of the Liverpool players have improved whereas the United ones have regressed (ADM, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Ibrahimovic, Martial vs. Coutinho, Salah, Mane, VVD, Firmino)
*shit stirring like crazy*
They haven't. I wouldn't take any one of those United players over ours/was ours (Coutinho
). But I think that may be because we play such different styles of football, those players won't work in our system.
I'd probably take Matic. Could do with a big physical presence in midfield, that's about it.
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I said from the start that United is a bigger club with more money and because of that is able to bring in bigger names like Ibrahimovic, Di Maria etc. That's not up for debate and hasn't been for a long time.
I never said that Mane, Firmino, Salah, VVD are a level above, I merely debated whether they turned out to be the better buys.
Again, we're not debating whether you have more money than us or if you're a bigger club, because it's a "yes" on both accounts.
We depend more on player sales as we have less money than you.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that VVD is "damaged", though. Based on what exactly? I find it hard to believe the Liverpool scouts and Klopp would sanction a 75m buy of defensively suspect defender. We'll see, I guess.
Hmmm personally I'd say wrong on every count bar the 'not cheap' and 'good on the ball' comments.
I think it’s dofficult with their worldwide fan base to say that UTD are not the bigger club, but likewise this doesn’t mean they are the most successful club, nor does it mean they are on a level with Real Madrid for instance, nor as successful as they should have been on a European stage.
As for signings, Liverpool don’t have the leveraged money UTD have, not the income, so we have to do things in a different way. Our Net spend since Klopp came is 8 or so times less than that of UTD, with a smaller wage bill, which is also important, but likewise, that said, I would consider Liverpool’s transfers to be on a similar level to that of that of UTD’s in that time in terms of contribution on the pitch, rather than the name.
All good teams, and top teams lose their best players, ala Ronaldo and Beckham for instance, and ala Suarez and Coutinho. When the lure of Madrid and Barca come, especially to foreign players, or Latin players, eve.n more so, it’s difficult for them to say no.
If Liverpool can get Allison in from Roma, and add say a Lemar with that money, I’d be happy with where we stand, but I seriously question the timing of this sale, as it only benefits Barca and Coutinho.
As for signings, Liverpool don’t have the leveraged money UTD have, not the income, so we have to do things in a different way. Our Net spend since Klopp came is 8 or so times less than that of UTD, with a smaller wage bill, which is also important, but likewise, that said, I would consider Liverpool’s transfers to be on a similar level to that of that of UTD’s in that time in terms of contribution on the pitch, rather than the name.
All good teams, and top teams lose their best players, ala Ronaldo and Beckham for instance, and ala Suarez and Coutinho. When the lure of Madrid and Barca come, especially to foreign players, or Latin players, eve.n more so, it’s difficult for them to say no.
If Liverpool can get Allison in from Roma, and add say a Lemar with that money, I’d be happy with where we stand, but I seriously question the timing of this sale, as it only benefits Barca and Coutinho.
Look, you can’t go erasing history, which is the word you chose to use in a previous post, not me. We have won the league, football didn’t start in 1992.
If I was being cynical on purpose, and I will be, to make my point. UTD have great pulling power, but not that of the real elite, namely Real, Barca and PSG (money, nothing else).
Maybe leaving those teams from a financial viewpoint is a sideways step, but from a European football name/success viewpoint, Liverpool are hardly minnows, as you would know.
You have signed Van Persie, yes, but he turned in to a more consistent striker at UTD, and at Arsenal, he was very good, but hardly a top 3 in the world player. Falcao, joined because of the money @ 300k plus a week. Di Maria, was moved on by Madrid, and they replaced him immediately. Schweinsteiger and Ibrahimovic you signed when they applied for a bus pass, and Pogba, really? He was there 3 years before, and you signed him for crazy money, after first letting him go for a song.
I’m not knocking UTD, I’m really not, but outside of money and age, and Real moving Di Maria on, I could accurately argue that no team in the UK, has bought a top 3 player in the world at that time, at their pomp, from a top level team. A true top level, top, top, top player. I added the extra tops Just in case Fergie was reading.
VVD played one game and you are already saying he is a good buy? Wow..
And for the rest, yeah is better. The table doesn't lie.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-31188264/watch-tommy-lawrence-s-chance-encounter-with-bbc-reporter
Thought I'd put in this in here, ex Liverpool keeper Tommy Lawrence passed away, and this video clip is just lovely, the magic in his eyes as the question unfolds is really beautiful.
I know nothing about him, but it really made me smile watching it.
RIP
Thought I'd put in this in here, ex Liverpool keeper Tommy Lawrence passed away, and this video clip is just lovely, the magic in his eyes as the question unfolds is really beautiful.
I know nothing about him, but it really made me smile watching it.
RIP
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RIP Tommy.
I tried to watch the video, but I couldn't because I haven't got flash installed (seriously, BBC, is this 2008 or what?). Never even heard of him either, but the video looks like a lovely piece of coincidence. RIP.
/watch?v=0U_PUbQGA4U
Can't embed videos yet, sorry.
He was nickname the Flying Pig as he was a bit chubby. Me Mum knitted a scarf in 1964 . Red / White with the players names sewn into it . She sent me a photo of it before and a few of the players and Shanks are no longercwith us. It's been suggested by friends from the match that it belongs in the LFC museum. I for one agree.
Agreed. Based on Rob's post, the players that Liverpool did well buying were Coutinho, Salah and Mane (regardless of his form since coming back from injury). With VVD you have to wait and see how he does, I do like the Bailly purchase more personally. Salah and Coutinho would instantly walk into our starting 11 and an argument could be made for Mane, however I would personally prefer Martial.
You wouldn't take Pogba?They haven't. I wouldn't take any one of those United players over ours/was ours (Coutinho
But I think that may be because we play such different styles of football, those players won't work in our system.
I'd probably take Matic. Could do with a big physical presence in midfield, that's about it.
You’re kidding yourself if you wouldn’t take Pogba, Bailly, De Gea and even Mkhitaryan. They would all get into your starting 11 with ease.They haven't. I wouldn't take any one of those United players over ours/was ours (Coutinho
But I think that may be because we play such different styles of football, those players won't work in our system.
I'd probably take Matic. Could do with a big physical presence in midfield, that's about it.
I think that´s where you lost everybody.
You wouldn't take DDG over Mingolet, Pogba over Henderson, Bailly over Lovren?They haven't. I wouldn't take any one of those United players over ours/was ours (Coutinho
But I think that may be because we play such different styles of football, those players won't work in our system.
I'd probably take Matic. Could do with a big physical presence in midfield, that's about it.
Mental. Irrespective of what system you play.
He’s out of form at the minute but he’s ultimately a more talented player than Lallana and Chamberlain for example.I think that´s where you lost everybody.
They haven't. I wouldn't take any one of those United players over ours/was ours (Coutinho
But I think that may be because we play such different styles of football, those players won't work in our system.
I'd probably take Matic. Could do with a big physical presence in midfield, that's about it.
Geez mate DDG, Pogba and Bailey would walk into our starting 11. I wish we would sell Pret-Hendo ive never rated him and to think he is our bloody captain still baffles me
You can't say he's out of form when he has been underwhelming for 1 and a half seasons now...
I do not know anything about him but what a lovely clip. Spot on about the magic in his eyes. They just light up eh.
RIP.
Has someone really just said they wouldn't take any of our players in their starting XI. Up there with one of the worst shouts I've ever heard considering they have Mignolet, Lovren and Henderson in their starting 11. There's bias and then there's stupidity.
I'd happily take bailly, matic and Pogba for the starting xi.
If you had someone actually ace at fullback or 10, that would have been up for grabs too. But for both teams it's somewhere between just about good enough and decent. No one there to make other teams jealous. Though if Lallana makes a full recovery I think he nails that spot for now.
I'd consider martial for mane but mainly on the premise that'd he'd do better under Klopp than under mourinho
If you had someone actually ace at fullback or 10, that would have been up for grabs too. But for both teams it's somewhere between just about good enough and decent. No one there to make other teams jealous. Though if Lallana makes a full recovery I think he nails that spot for now.
I'd consider martial for mane but mainly on the premise that'd he'd do better under Klopp than under mourinho
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Besides Mkhitaryan is on record saying Klopp tried to make him unlearn football by never working with the ball in practice. Mkhitaryan only thrived at Dortmund, when Tuchel took over.
As per bild Liverpool can get Keita Now for a sum of 13- 15 million pounds. That would take his value upto 80 million making him Liverpool's record signing.
In that case, Klopps two BL titles are even more impressive! I wonder if he can also teach people to drive without the use of a car?
Bild are supposedly quite unreliable. That said, the Liverpool Echo are reporting the same so there may be something in this. £13-15m would make no sense IF Coutinho was still with us but we'll worth it now IMO
Kicker reported it, too. If you want an indication this was a long time coming, Keita stayed back in Leipzig over the Christmas holidays to work out alone. I assume Liverpool knew Coutinho was happening and told Keita to stay sharp, cause his winter break might not be that long.
I thought that I'd seen that Kicker had reported it but wasn't sure. Kicker are very reliable from what I know of them so hopefully this could become reality
Yeah Mkhi was not his best under Klopp, but surely we can say this this is an anamoly rather than the norm from looking at the amount of players Klopp has developed